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Author Topic: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - With mods you can now Coop and PvP!  (Read 17655 times)

Jopax

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #120 on: April 02, 2019, 02:54:51 pm »

Yeah, for that move you circle left and by the time he's done you're right up in his face and have a few free hits.

Also fuck his second fight, combining both phases is just bull.

Also also, realised the headless phase (atleast in the second fight, haven't thought of trying this in the first one) is really weak to the phantom shuriken as each of them does full and substantial damage since he doesn't ever block and is a big target so all of them hit.

Also also also, testing proves that the ninja kicks are counterable with mikiri, tho I think unless you got some posture damage on them it's better to sidestep and get some attacks in, the effect is pretty much the same but quicker without the animation.

Spoiler: Dojo ninja dude (click to show/hide)

Oh and fuck the second ogre, even if I did take him down on the first attempt, they once again insist on a cramped arena that fucks with both your camera and movement, against an oponent where being able to gtfo on time is crucial. Seriously, give him a third or fourth fucking red eye if you want to make him harder, just please, stop using cheap tricks to make fights artificialy harder.
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nenjin

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #121 on: April 02, 2019, 03:16:52 pm »

That's From Soft's way though! Take a guy that would normally not threaten you and use the environment to make the fight harder. I actually really appreciate that about their games (when I've had time to cool off....) Most game companies would just give you a square room with 4 dudes standing around and call that an encounter, and rinse and repeat that design through the whole game. From Soft treats each area/enemy combo as its own opportunity to leverage difficulty. A normal fight against a regular ass dude becomes a life and death struggle by adding just one archer. Or making the playing field smaller.

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Also fuck his second fight, combining both phases is just bull.

Agreed. But after so many Souls's games I'm used to two (or three stage) fights. After the fact I can accept. During however....it's "fucking bullshit."

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Also also also, testing proves that the ninja kicks are counterable with mikiri, tho I think unless you got some posture damage on them it's better to sidestep and get some attacks in, the effect is pretty much the same but quicker without the animation.


Yeah, figured this out with Well Ninja. I dunno, I'm still not sold in Mikiri. It's "mandatory" for some fights but I don't feel like it gives you an amazing window for damage all that often. If the timing were less forgiving, I'd probably never even try to use it.

Also killed 2nd Ogre on the first try, but it took all my pots. And it seemed like, around half life on his last life bar, he just starts chain grabbing. Pretty annoying.

Sekiro's biggest flaw IMO is the camera. Almost every fight I've gotten royally frustrated in is due to putting me in a corner where I can see neither myself nor half the attacks the enemy is making.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 04:38:47 pm by nenjin »
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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Jopax

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #122 on: April 02, 2019, 03:26:58 pm »

Yeah, if the fight was difficult due to terrain I'd be fine with it, but it's difficult due to camera issues (which are indirectly due to terrain). If the camera wasn't buggering me every chance it got I'd be fine with the cramped conditions of the second ogre fight, as is, not so much.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #123 on: April 02, 2019, 09:13:58 pm »

I also enjoyed the second great ape fight, including the double fight.  Stage one ape is super mobile and stage 2 not quite as much, it's pretty easy to run the live one away and burn him down fast with firecrackers.
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nenjin

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #124 on: April 02, 2019, 09:56:20 pm »

Spoiler: That Big Spoiler Fight (click to show/hide)

Also apparently everyone is laughing at Gamespot because one of their writers thinks Sekiro not having an easy mode is "disrespectful" to its fans. It's probably just some clickbait nonsense more than anything, but a few journo outlets have complained about the difficulty. I dunno, I can profess that I have a lot of weird ego invested in my performance in Sekiro, more than Dark Souls PvE. My attitude to how I do in Sekiro kind of reminds me my attitude in PvP, it kind of triggers me the same way.

Also also, and maybe this is me reading too much in to it, but in the above fight having to avoid using that one specific move has kind of shown me...against standard sword bearing opponents, using partially charged strikes to change up your timing actually seems to fuck with them a little bit.

Like, the game knows exactly how fast you can throw your combo, and it has responses built around that conceit. So let's say you're doing the three hit R1 combo. Game knows that, if the first one hits it can block or deflect up the second, then do its return attack. But if after the first hit you start charging the second, the boss AI goes "well ok then I'll attack now" and right as he starts to move you let go of that charged attack and you go in to a normal strike rather than the full charged thrust attack. Since the boss is now committed to an attack animation, your follow up strike hits, and hopefully, based on the attack they're doing, stumbles them. And instead of just immediately R1ing again, which will cause them to go in to the block/deflect routine, you hesitate again.

It's this weird timing you occasionally stumble in to it when, I feel like, you've finally had enough of a bosses' shit and/or remembered/realized that you need to be aggressive, and you walk up and just start wailing on them like you have no fucks left to give.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 10:10:32 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Cthulhu

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #125 on: April 02, 2019, 10:33:17 pm »

Games urinalism is a joke.  It's just a hateclick generator.  The argument I heard was it was ableist to make the game so reliant on having sharp reflexes (even though it's really not, and if you absolutely have to just spamming the block button as fast as you can will successfully deflect most enemies).

Cop behavior must never be acknowledged or appeased.  The people who do that shit are like piranhas, they're always hungry, they'll never be satisfied, and if you let them know you're bleeding they'll eat you alive. 

But yes, it's an extremely satisfying game to master, in a way dark souls PvE never was to me.  I can't remember any bosses I was really pleased to have beaten in dark souls, except maybe four kings when I beat them at level 8 to make a burgwraith.  It's always more of a "well, that's finally over" irritated relief.  When you finally hand a hard boss his ass in Sekiro you feel fucking amazing.

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Jopax

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #126 on: April 04, 2019, 07:50:13 am »

So I got trough the second castle fight, after banging my head against the Big O wall yesterday I gave it another shot today and took him down in five tries or so, seems to be a running theme with me, if a boss is giving me trouble, give it a rest and try tommorrow, usually the tilt factor is gone by then and I can take it apart properly.

Fighting the second coming of the monk now, she's giving me shit but I somehow muddle my way trough the first two phases (funnily enough, used up all my gourds in the first phase then didn't need any in the second) and then the third comes and holy fuckballs what is this shit.

Also, on special techniques, is it just me or is the only really worthwhile one the whirlwind slash? Mainly because it's got decent damage and the shortest windup of all of them. The others are all too slow to be practical against big things or are just blockable so they really only work if you're ambushing someone, and in those cases, why not just deathblow them? Like, the Ashina cross, super cool move, but most of the time only the first slash will do damage, and that's nice enough, but it costs spirit emblems, and at that point you're better off using a prosthethic for the job or the whirlwind slash.
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ZeroGravitas

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #127 on: April 04, 2019, 08:11:21 am »

The argument I heard was it was ableist to make the game so reliant on having sharp reflexes (even though it's really not, and if you absolutely have to just spamming the block button as fast as you can will successfully deflect most enemies).

rofl

that is literally what the kotaku article was complaining about. too much fucking button mashing. there is literally nothing in there about "sharp reflexes".
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sluissa

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #128 on: April 04, 2019, 09:01:43 am »

Just have to say, the part with the big white thing in the canyon*. That was a very well made section.

*Forgive if there's more than one that fits that description, just assume I mean the first one you're likely to meet.
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nenjin

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #129 on: April 04, 2019, 09:34:14 am »

Double Ichimonji IS good vitality and posture damage IF you can hit the timing marks. Can be kind of tough with bosses but minibosses and mid-tier guys, it works pretty well.

But yeah I agree that I keep going back to whirlwind slash as my go to technique. The technique you get from the fish guy looks cool, but it has no hyper armor and most guys don't seem to stagger under the hits either.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Jopax

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #130 on: April 04, 2019, 10:05:02 am »

It's damage isn't the best either imo. There is that one gif of a dude Ashina crossing the Ashina elite dude, looked bloody cool.

On the whole difficulty thing, I find it hillarious that one day forbes put out an article on the need for difficulty modes and shit and the very next day they put out an article going, nah it doesn't need difficulty modes, just git gud. Farming both sides of the clickbait/ragebait industry, fucking brilliant.
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Jopax

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #131 on: April 04, 2019, 12:24:16 pm »

Oh yeah, the monk tree has that leaping kick thing that the tooltip says dodges sweeping attacks and deals damage at the same time, anyone try that one out? Having an extra punish for certain moves seems like a nice idea, but with how other tips are misleading I'm weary of spending skillpoints on something that might be utterly useless in the end (since points are now 12k+ and only getting more expensive).

Also that one corrupted monk sweep where she doubles up and counterslashes even if you jump smack her is a goddamn dick move.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #132 on: April 04, 2019, 01:52:15 pm »

Most bosses with perilous followups have big openings if you deflect them.  I dont remember what monk's is but seven spears can followup a mikiri counter and if you deflect the followup he'll stumble and fall
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Draignean

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #133 on: April 04, 2019, 05:10:02 pm »

Oh yeah, the monk tree has that leaping kick thing that the tooltip says dodges sweeping attacks and deals damage at the same time, anyone try that one out? Having an extra punish for certain moves seems like a nice idea, but with how other tips are misleading I'm weary of spending skillpoints on something that might be utterly useless in the end (since points are now 12k+ and only getting more expensive).

IMO, high-monk is beastly. It is itself a jump, so you can use it completely in lieu of a jump to avoid a sweep attack and follow-up for massive posture damage. No special animation, but it acts sorta like a mikiri counter for sweeps- negating the damage and returning a heavy combo of posture and vitality damage.

The final tier upgrade for it just adds a longer followup combo. It's good enough that it's my default special attack, replaced only occasionally by floating passage. Floating passage isn't a staggering ability, but it does lethal amounts of posture damage and can be self-interrupted by timed blocks.

As another note, if I feel that need to use whirlwind slash, I'll always go with mortal draw instead. It's just a bigger and beefier version of the same slash.
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nenjin

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (It's not my fault everyone has the cancer!)
« Reply #134 on: April 04, 2019, 06:10:14 pm »

Whirlwind Slash is free though. Mortal Blade is not. In my mind Free + Effective > Costs + More Effective, generally. If you can get by with an ability that costs you nothing, why pay more? Again, my frugality mentality in video games.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti
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