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[ConscriptFive]

-Improve the Swallow's maneuvering
-Improve the Barnett's performance further, hopefully benefiting existing aircraft
-Get some parachutes!
-Implement the radio into some of our aircraft, Emus maybe
-Get tracers and/or incendiary ammunition
-Maybe some armor for our air crews

These in approximate order of priority. We only have four dice to work with, of course. Thoughts?

Hmm, so my wishlist in approx order of priority:
-Tracers *Thanik's should do fine*
-A means to sink the destroyer *See the 490 lb bomb I just proposed.  Not ideal, but otherwise a new plane is going to take ~3-5 turns to dev and field.  That's also a lot of PP I'd rather invest into Swallows right now.*
-Better guns *See the M2 Browning knockoff, the .60 cal Ox Slayer.  (Yes .50 cal is more practical, but then you lose the HorseKiller/Stallion tribute.)  We did a metal plane, they're probably going to field one now.  We'll need that firepower, and tripling our range is a huge improvement.  It's supposed to be an endgame weapon, so I'd be surprised if the GM gave it to us on a revision roll.  (The Soviet's didn't even get the Dshka debugged until 1938.)  Also makes sense to roll the guns you'd put on the bomber out first, so you don't compromise payload later.*
-Further V12 development *Anything can fly with enough power.  Mustangs and Spitfires started WW2 at about 1k hp V12's, and ended at 2k hp.  We've have to be persistent on this if we really want to keep pushing the tech.*
-Better instrumentation *Yeah it's nerdy, but I want an artificial horizon and six pack.  Instrument flying also = all weather and night bombing.  Great way to dodge air superiority is if you can fly when they can't.*
-Parachutes/Ejectors *Nerd point: the big reason nobody flies pushers is that you can't bail out of them without snagging on the propeller.  A Heinecke chute would work on the Rhino and Swallow, but not the Emus.  Basically the Emu's going to need ejector seats for chutes to work.*
-Better electrical systems *Going to need it for radios and next gen solenoid driven synch gears.*
-Solenoid Driven Synch Gear *End game synch gear*
-Hydraulics *Next gen control surfaces*

Also I like eS's Kingfisher proposal.  A long range recon sea-plane should be it's own design: awkward and clumsy looking, but can glide at highly economical low speeds.  Nothing we have is engineered like that.  It also bundles in figuring out the radio in the design, so we'll have that to carry over (electrical systems + radio setup) for other airframes.

[Cnidaros]

The Ox Slayer is too different from the Bolt Machine Gun to be made in a revision. It'll have to be a project, but less difficult than a project for a new plane.

[Sensei]

Oof, I wish we hadn't sold them on it now. That just doesn't seem worth the dice at all.

[evictedSaint]

maybe we could do it in an AA truck design?

[piratejoe]

the most damage we've done was when we got lucky and dropped a bomb straight down the smokestack of one of the DD's and damaged it.

We have made no kills and it is generally described as "ineffective" - shooting the spotting balloons is more effective, actually.

The second attack proves much more devastating than the first, as the Emus pitch up at the last minute to pass over and drop their bombs at extremely close range into the Kolechian vessels. One bomb, whether by luck or skill, goes directly into the funnels of a destroyer, and the resulting explosion leaves it dead in the water. The others explode across the decks, causing chaos and setting ships ablaze. Several Emus are lost to close range machinegun fire, but the attack succeeds in forcing the Kolechian fleet to break off. To add injury to injury, the remaining Emus shoot down almost all of the Hykib balloons deployed navally. At the end of the day, losses for the Kolechian Navy are three destroyers, with several others damaged by fire.

Considering we left it dead in the water, I would say we where responsible for at least one of those losses for the Kol navy. But yeah, that was more down to luck, not judgement, and we could do with a bomb upgrade.

[evictedSaint]

Refresh my memory, what was the issue with the torpedo that we couldn't revise it smaller? Seems like it would be better suited than a bomb

[ConscriptFive]

For the sake of organization, I'm putting together a votebox so we can keep track of what's out there.  Still not voting yet, in case any other revisions pop up.

Revision List
Barnett 1916 V12 'Swallow' Engine
Incandescent Ammunition Revision
Lesser European Swallow Manueverability Improvements
Barnett Weight Reduction
Sky Crusader Armour
JTT Penetrator Aerial Munition
Bull's Eye Aerial Gunnery Ring Sight

So comments/critiques/nitpicks down the line so far.

Barnett 1916 V12 'Swallow' Engine
Got to keep pushing that V12 hp. Nice technical write up too.

Incandescent Ammunition Revision
This is the tracer revision we desparately need.  Incendiary rounds are a good stretch objective too, especially because the KPAF somehow made them effective in a rifle round caliber.  The only nitpick I have is that the incendiary bullet placement pattern in the belt looks ugly AF.  I can't find a pretty way to make 5 or 10 work either, so why not 1 ball, 1 incendiary, 1 ball, 1 tracer?  We'll just keep our ammo counts in multiples of 20 rather than 10.

Lesser European Swallow Maneuverability Improvements
So the LES kinda flies like a brick with its metal frame.  Taking out the over-engineered struts is probably not a bad idea.  Could use more detail on what to do with the control surfaces though.  Maybe make them bigger?  Add some kind of mechanical advantage (levers or pulleys) so the pilot can crank them harder?  Do we have rudder pedals yet?

Barnett Weight Reduction
Yes, dropping engine weight would improve the thrust to weight ratio, but you don't say how.  Which engines parts are we making lighter and how?  How will that balance against engine performance too?  Feels kinda cheap to just throw that at the GM and make him figure it out.

Sky Crusader Armour
Hmm, as much as I loved NAV's original Sky Crusader Armour, it was timed for winter warfare in the mountains.  It's literally summer right now, so the timing is a bit off.  More importantly, just like last time it's getting derailed by having another revision stealthily shoe-horned in, the parachute.  An eight item clothing loadout should be its own revision.  (Do we get all eight items?  Do they even work? Do they fit pilots of all sizes? Are they hot, itchy, or otherwise uncomfortable?  Are they durable?  Are they expensive?  Are they demoralizingly ugly or pridefully badass looking?)  I think it's obvious a Heinecke-style chute like the KPAF have really should be a standalone revision.  http://www.historynet.com/heinecke-parachute-a-leap-of-faith-for-wwi-german-airmen.htm  Keep in mind we'll still need an ejector seat later for it to be effective on the Emus.

JTT Penetrator Aerial Munition
(This one is mine.)  Dirty jokes aside, this could bag us a destroyer this turn.  Hopefully that'll sway the Navy some more for the autonomy push.  To recap, the smallest aerial torpedo ever to get a kill was 800 lb, still not powerful enough to take a warship solo, and we're nowhere near that payload-wise, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Type_184.  (Those torpedo bombers could also only fly in the tranquil Mediterranean because they were basically overloaded and couldn't handle Atlantic winds and distances.)

Bull's Eye Aerial Gunnery Ring Sight
(Also mine.) A cheap way to try to balance the air-to-air gunnery fight this turn.  Also a hedge should we misroll tracers again.

Not revisions, but for the sake of completeness...

AD Truck proposal
Why is this still a thing?  Our V12 is probably too good for this.  Seems like a waste to develop a truck chassis and presumably a hand-crank operated quad gun turret we'll never use.  The Army is happy with the Motor Partnership already.  If you really want to economize on dice for the HMG, remember we can also bundle in incendiary ammo, disintegrating link belts, maybe twin-gun mounts, and probably better sights.  It's an end-game weapon so I'd rather get it perfect now and never have to tweak our machine guns further for the rest of the war.

Kingfisher proposal
I love it except for one nitpick.  The Crossguard-enabled front gun is unlikely to see any use.  The plane is by design unmanueverable, so it would never be able to line up a shot in a dogfight.  A Foster mount might see some use because it can swivel some, but it's really the tail gunner that's going to be doing the defensive shooting.  I'd either cut that front gun entirely, or at least downgrade it to an actually more useful Foster gun.

[piratejoe]

We should have rudder peddles, especially considering rudders where mentioned as something the Kols had to use when reloading and how they are listed under basic control surfaces. Also, we already have some experience in attempting to make sky crusader armour...so...yeah

[Jerick]

AD Truck proposal
Why is this still a thing?  Our V12 is probably too good for this.  Seems like a waste to develop a truck chassis and presumably a hand-crank operated quad gun turret we'll never use.  The Army is happy with the Motor Partnership already.  If you really want to economize on dice for the HMG, remember we can also bundle in incendiary ammo, disintegrating link belts, maybe twin-gun mounts, and probably better sights.  It's an end-game weapon so I'd rather get it perfect now and never have to tweak our machine guns further for the rest of the war.

There seems to be considerable confusion about the AD truck so let me clear it up; it's not a proposal sent to the army it's a design we do entirely ourselves. Secondly we don't develop the vehicle itself we requisition a civilian vehicle like a truck or a tractor and stick guns on the back. There's no developing chassis or squeezing in aircraft engines. As for what it's for well partially it's for providing a bit of moblie AA but it's also something where if the army asks about it we can say "oh yeah totally, mobile AA defenses are under our jurisdiction they're used solely to engage aircraft after all," While the AD truck isn't really that important, it would still be nice to assert some more authority.

[NAV]

Any AA vehicle that can't depress its guns enough to engage ground targets is a crappy AA vehicle.

[Sensei]

It's a little hard to tell what the Army wants since we don't know what they already have, but we can propose the AD to see how they feel about it, I don't think suggesting it as an idea will hurt us. However I still hate to spend a whole design, our dice are precious.

As the council breaks for dinner, it looks like the Sky Crusaders have convinced about two-thirds of the generals, and hardly any of the admirals, necessary to get themselves promoted.

We should be doing something for the navy. At a bare minimum we should pledge to support them, possibly with reconnaissance aircraft or improved spotter balloons. They might also be keen on us planning to deliver torpedoes by air. Any other ideas?

[piratejoe]

Well, only other idea I can think of that might get the navy happy is saying we will make a nice big bomb to kill the enemy with as well, because whats better then dropping not just a ton o torps but a ton o bombs too? Speaking of, Conscript five, I implore you to change the name of that bomb to jug of fury, or tank of fury, mostly because it fits the theme and...Thinking about it, I may be a bit obsessed with keeping naming themes...Anyway other then that, obvious reasons why. If I was to suggest a weight for it, 500 pounds, since more work on the Barnett should bring the Emu up enough to carry one and maybe more if we work on giving the thing more HP...

Speaking of, we probably could reasonably make a design to get the Barnett up to 350 HP if we go for the revision to increase its HP and it fails, or we simply don't go for it. We also maybe be able to even get it to 400 if the revision succeeds. Getting a engine at that speed would mean we get to play around with weight more....and it would just about make everything more effective if we slapped it on all our aircraft...

[ConscriptFive]

Getting my votes in.  Remember, we get four revisions this phase.

I think I gave enough of my thoughts on the revisions yesterday, so I won't textwall you guys on that again.

Revision Votes

Barnett 1916 V12 'Swallow' Engine (1) ConscriptFive
Incandescent Ammunition Revision (1) ConscriptFive
Lesser European Swallow Manueverability Improvements (0)
Barnett Weight Reduction (0)
Sky Crusader Armour (0)
JTT Penetrator Aerial Munition *NEW NAME 500 lb Stroke of Fury* (1) ConscriptFive
Bull's Eye Aerial Gunnery Ring Sight (1) ConscriptFive

Per PJ's critique, I'm assuming we're going to squeeze at least 10 more lbs of extra payload out of the Great Emu this turn so I rounded the bomb off to a nice even 500 lbs.  I generally agree that naming conventions are important for establishing themes, so I found a new name for the bomb that keeps the "fury" series going while still being vaguely suggestive enough to keep the original joke.

So War Council, Phase Two.

There's adage in business: "Once you make the sale, stop talking!"  With the Ox Slayer HMG and V12 Motors Partnership, we got 2/3rds of the Army.  My understanding is that we just need a simple majority from each service.  We already got their vote, so trying to give them more stuff, like an AD truck, is just a waste now.  Rescinding our original offer to something lesser could make us look untrustworthy, and is the exact opposite of how haggling works.  The KPAF isn't even bombing (yet), so why would they care about AA guns?  They're happy with that original offer, so let's shake hands with the Army, and figure out a package for the Navy.

While I was hoping they'd bite on the Ox Slayer HMG, the Kingfisher seaplane is something the Navy has to love.  It eats up another project, and we'll only build 1 or maybe 2 squadrons of them, but at least it'll sort out the voice radio for us tech-wise.  Strategy-wise, it should enable our Emu bombers to hunt ships just like the Rhino-P enables them on land, so they'll stay relevant for our operations.  I'd also pitch to the Navy that even in peacetime it'll be great for Coast Guard duties: spotting lifeboats and smuggler ships from the air and radio dispatching fast boats to intercept.  As for a second bargaining chip, I propose something we were going to do anyways:

War Council Proposal: Emu Anti-Warship Bombing Pledge

"After the VSC first series of engagements against the KPN, the VSC withdrew to develop more deadly aerial munitions.  With these cutting edge munitions soon to be fielded, the VSC pledges to immediately dedicate a squadron of our highly-esteemed Great Emu bombers to hunting KPN warships.  This assignment will continue until at least one destroyer is three destroyers are sunk by the VSC."

War Council Votes

Keep Current Bargain with Army for Autonomy Bid - .60 cal Ox Slayer HMG Project Pledge and V12 Motors Partnership (1) ConscriptFive

Bargaining Package with Navy for Autonomy Bid
-V.K-A "Kingfisher" Project Pledge (1) ConscriptFive
-Emu Anti-Warship Bombing Pledge (1) ConscriptFive

[piratejoe]

Revision Votes

Barnett 1916 V12 'Swallow' Engine (2) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe
Incandescent Ammunition Revision (2) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe
Lesser European Swallow Manueverability Improvements (1) Piratejoe
Barnett Weight Reduction (0)
Sky Crusader Armour (0)
JTT Penetrator Aerial Munition *NEW NAME 500 lb Stroke of Fury* (2) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe
Bull's Eye Aerial Gunnery Ring Sight (1) ConscriptFive

War Council Votes

Keep Current Bargain with Army for Autonomy Bid - .60 cal Ox Slayer HMG Project Pledge and V12 Motors Partnership (2) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe

Bargaining Package with Navy for Autonomy Bid
-V.K-A "Kingfisher" Project Pledge (2) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe73
-Emu Anti-Warship Bombing Pledge (2) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe73

Personally I would have it be at least 3 destroyers but that's fine too.

[evictedSaint]

Revision Votes

Barnett 1916 V12 'Swallow' Engine (3) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe, eS
Incandescent Ammunition Revision (3) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe, eS
Lesser European Swallow Manueverability Improvements (2) Piratejoe, eS
Barnett Weight Reduction (0)
Sky Crusader Armour (0)
JTT Penetrator Aerial Munition *NEW NAME 500 lb Stroke of Fury* (3) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe, eS
Bull's Eye Aerial Gunnery Ring Sight (1) ConscriptFive

War Council Votes

Keep Current Bargain with Army for Autonomy Bid - .60 cal Ox Slayer HMG Project Pledge and V12 Motors Partnership (2) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe

Bargaining Package with Navy for Autonomy Bid
-V.K-A "Kingfisher" Project Pledge (3) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe73, eS
-Emu Anti-Warship Bombing Pledge (3) ConscriptFive, Piratejoe73, eS