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Author Topic: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]  (Read 10092 times)

Elderon

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Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« on: May 15, 2018, 04:42:59 pm »

Greetings Overlords!
My fort soon will reach magical population number of 80 and I am starting to think about military. Considering new thoughts system, I am planing to chose my soldiers not by their physical traits, but psychological. After quick search I didn't see all in one lists, so i put together few personality traits that could be important for functional, non raving mad or depress military.
         
high WILLPOWER
high PERSEVERANCE
high BRAVERY
high CRUELTY
high EXCITEMENT_SEEKING
low DEPRESSION_PROPENSITY
low ANGER_PROPENSITY
low ANXIETY_PROPENSITY
low STRESS_VULNERABILITY
low Peace and high Martial_Prowess (thanks anewaname)

I intend to test them  but maybe some of these are already know to be important/ not important?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 06:07:44 am by Elderon »
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Grand Sage

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 06:16:25 pm »

I'm no expert, but I do have some doubt regarding EXCITEMENT_SEEKING and ANGER_PROPENSITY.

I think if you happen to come across a period of peace in your fort, excitement will actually work against you, being an unmet need. so a medium value might be better there.

As I understand the traits (and I might not, really...), Anger propensity increases the chances of your dwarf becoming enraged, so depending on if that is something you want, this can be both good or bad.
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Dwarf Fortress: This feature has one or more outstanding bugs. Please visit the Bugs section for details.

And I drank the mosquito paste

Bumber

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 07:26:32 pm »

What does enraged do?

Edit: Looks like it makes their attacks stronger, but they can only use wild strikes. Not sure what that means in terms of accuracy.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 07:36:59 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 09:54:57 pm »

Excitement_seeking will help them achieve needs focus by fighting. A good trait for military dorfs. Not sure if sparring is exciting though. Kobold beating certainly is. Once raids actually satisfy needs, raiding will also help them in the downtime.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 09:56:46 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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anewaname

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 10:37:29 pm »

If you look at the wiki for Martial_Prowess and Peace beliefs, these could cause a dwarf's state of happiness to change when put into the military. I've seen the thought "I gained Axe skill, this upsets me." and found the dwarf didn't like violence.

Do you plan to obtain numeric data through DT or DFHack?
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There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

Elderon

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 05:07:38 am »

Thanks for help! I haven't thought about down time implication. Will have to improve my tests.

Do you plan to obtain numeric data through DT or DFHack?

My plan was to make test fort, where using dfhack, I would remove all unnecessary traits from test subjects and set traits I am interested in to their extremes. Probably 1 dwarf = 1 trait. Then make them fight 1v1 with goblin and in DT monitor stress level and thoughts.

Now I think I should also make something similar in main fort and let test subjects to experience military life for long period without actual fighting siege, just day to day activity with sparring
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Insert_Gnome_Here

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 07:27:03 am »

Does beating up wildlife satisfy excitement?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 09:07:58 am »

Does beating up wildlife satisfy excitement?
Yes, I think so.
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Leonidas

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 06:47:23 pm »

You might also track personality vs willingness to do military training.
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doublestrafe

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 11:10:19 pm »

My plan was to make test fort, where using dfhack, I would remove all unnecessary traits from test subjects and set traits I am interested in to their extremes. Probably 1 dwarf = 1 trait. Then make them fight 1v1 with goblin and in DT monitor stress level and thoughts.
So, one would be sleepy, one happy, another grumpy...?
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Elderon

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2018, 06:04:45 am »

My plan was to make test fort, where using dfhack, I would remove all unnecessary traits from test subjects and set traits I am interested in to their extremes. Probably 1 dwarf = 1 trait. Then make them fight 1v1 with goblin and in DT monitor stress level and thoughts.
So, one would be sleepy, one happy, another grumpy...?

Yes :D , but unfortunately there will be 12 dwarf, not 7

Test scenario will look like:
I reclaim previously prepared fort ( 12 bedrooms, a farm, 12 testing chambers) with 24 dwarf without any skills.
Divided them in 2 groups. Test subjects and unfortunate targets, put them each in tests chambers

#-wall
D-dor
ts01-test subject
ut01-unfortunate target
###### ###### #######
#         # #         # #         #
# ts01  # # ts02  # # ts03  #...st12
#         # #         # #         #
#         # #         # #         #
# ut01  # # ut02 # # ut03  #...ut12
#         # #         # #         #
#         # #         # #         #
##DD## ##DD## ##DD##
#
#####################

For unfortunate targets I change their civ, so I could attack them,
for test subject  I made all their physical attributes to max,
remove all beliefs (but i don't change what come from civ)
set all facets (traits) to 50
and all soul attributes to average (1300 in most case).
Next, for all test subject (except one, who will be control group) I rise or lower appropriate belief, facets or soul attributes (for each dwarf one)
Then order them to attack their unfortunate target counterpart.

result recording
I will look at their stress level:
1. after all unfortunate targets are dead
2. after corpses have been hauled to corpse stockpile and all dwarfs have stay there for a moment
3. after about month of day to day item hauling work (all test subjects do a same job)
4. after 4 month letting them do there own things

Plan is to run this scenario at least 3 times.
Long term test in functional fort will come later.

If someone see problem with my tests, i will be happy to improve them :)
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Elderon

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2018, 07:15:39 pm »

It took longer than expected but results are in.
I run test 4 times. After preparing a scene (equalizing all test subjects, setting necessary personality traits for each dwarf, ordering attack) I saved and run first 3 tests form that spot. In fourth I change who dwarf get which trait, in case there was some other variables I hadn’t counted fore and could influence results.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Conclusion:  Results seems consistent, which is great. High bravery and low stress vulnerability are excellent for soldiers. Low anxiety also is good as it seems to make dwarf forget traumatic experience. It probably resolves others issues that bravery and stress can’t deal with. If you get dwarf with all 3 of them then you are one lucky overseer.
Considering impending updates that revolves around stress and memory I will postpone long term test (and rerun these after update drops)

p.s quick and dirty script for printing out dwarfs that have one or more of these traits. Meant mostly for my personal use, hence dirty, but maybe someone find it useful
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Leonidas

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2018, 11:48:24 pm »

This is some very useful data! Do you mind if I add it to the wiki?

Edit: And since you have the testing scenario all set up, could you run it again testing Discipline Skill and Willpower Attribute?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 12:27:02 am by Leonidas »
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Elderon

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2018, 07:48:46 am »

This is some very useful data! Do you mind if I add it to the wiki?

Edit: And since you have the testing scenario all set up, could you run it again testing Discipline Skill and Willpower Attribute?

Thanks, and no i don't mind.
Willpower I already tested, it didnt seem to infuance stress level, at least in 7 month period.
Run quick test with legendary discipline but it didn't give conclusive result
willpower 480 4.2 4.5 4.5
Discipline_1 472 4.3 4.9 8.8
Discipline_2 472 4.2 7.3 4.4
Not sure what happened with Discipline_2 sudden drop in stress, there wasn't anything out of ordinary in thoughts screen for neither of them. Maybe I will run another test, but i am to lazy for it now
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Beer Beard

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Re: Personality traits for military [0.44.10]
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2018, 03:04:45 pm »

How exactly can I use your script? DFhack does not launch it just like that.
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