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[Zeebie]

i just had an unusual raid that got me thinking about a couple of issues:

- How do numbers of soldiers play out? The report always describes single dwarfs confronting enemies - is there some advantage to sending lots of soliders? Or is one legendary dwarf all you need?

- One of my legendary axedwarfs was taken prisoner during a raid after fighting a particular enemy who had already struck down another member of his squad.  I went into legends mode to see who this badass enemy was, only to discover that...they were a weaver with novice marksmanship and no other combat skills.  What about the raid combat algorithms allowed this to happen?

[DoktaYut]

Numbers help a lot, I believe. Sure, legendaries carve through entire armies alone but sometimes they just get unlucky, as I assume happened to your axedwarf and other guy. That, and the one-on-one confrontations tend to be more for named individuals; anything nameless, which includes things like unnamed civilians, attack animals and trolls, get fought on a squad-by-squad basis; as in, if you send just one squad of five legendaries, you'll have at least one page of "confronted 239 trolls, slaying five" -> "confronted 234 trolls, slaying five" and so on. I just feel it easier to send the whole group every time, not to mention makes whittling a site down to nothing much easier.

And finally, it doubles as good training. Send everyone in until everyone's legendary from slaughtering things, and there is no conundrum anymore. Still, to ensure it works, best send the legendary as the militia captain, and everyone else under them; should at least nudge the tactics roll in your favor.

[Cathar]

Tactics matter a LOT. This is litterally the difference between a peahen killing two leopards in a clash and a legendary axeman getting curbstomped. This happened during the same fight, and the ground advantage just switched between those two events

[Pyrite]

I think it works basically the same as the combat that happens during history generation and now as time passes. You get duels and fights between small squads that ignore terrain.

[Cathar]

Terrain advantage is basically decided by a Tactics roll. During long fights, the Tactics are rechecked at a set interval. Basially that means if you get a big roll and "totally outmanoeuvre the enemy" you will get free kill over free kill. But at the moment where your tactician is killed or fails a tactic roll and the tide changes, the power of the squad/HF will vary heavily.

That's why (imho) you can get weak units scoring good kills during a favorable engagement, having a tide shift in the battle and lose good units against the same enemies

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think it works basically the same as the combat that happens during history generation and now as time passes. You get duels and fights between small squads that ignore terrain.

Terrain, tactics, squads numbers and equipment were added when raids were introduced. So, no, it's not the same as regular worldgen.

[Insert_Gnome_Here]

Or did worldgen get updated to reflect equipment and tactics? 
And I'd recommend training dwarves up a bit on home turf, with training sessions and wild animals, before sending them out into the world. 

[Zeebie]

Or did worldgen get updated to reflect equipment and tactics? 
And I'd recommend training dwarves up a bit on home turf, with training sessions and wild animals, before sending them out into the world.

Is there a way to train up the tactics skill without actually raiding?

[Sanctume]

Or did worldgen get updated to reflect equipment and tactics? 
And I'd recommend training dwarves up a bit on home turf, with training sessions and wild animals, before sending them out into the world.

Is there a way to train up the tactics skill without actually raiding?

Good question.  I am not there yet, but I have a new for set for testing (without using dfhack). 

My latest embark profile:
3 dwarfs with Tactician+5, Leather+5. These will be my dwarf captains for raiding. 
And 4 teachers:
(monk) 1 dwarf Teacher+5, Fighter+5. 
1 dwarf Teacher+5, Axe+5. 
1 dwarf Teacher+5, Hammer+5. 
1 dwarf Teacher+5, Spear+5. 

To help focus in the early days, I embarked with 1 copper axe.
Lots of 120 units of booze and 70 units of food about 4 of each type. 
The rest are junk for hospital: plaster, thread, cloth silk+wool;
and moodable junk: fire clay, sand, green glass

Interestingly enough, setting a noble manager lets me set workshop profiles and work orders even when I do not have an manager's office yet.  Instead of ordering 1x 7 beds. I order 7x 1 bed = Organizer skill gain!  Easy macro too.
From prior test, I think Organize helps doing demonstrations more for recruits.

Phase 1, day 1 embark. 
With 1 axe, have the axe teacher do wood cutting. 
Simple needs: 7 bed for dorms, 6 tables+chair for dining and 1 set office.  3 chest for tavern, library, and temple.  some wooden cups.  And an armor stand. 

The should get the monk teacher some initial organizer skills. 

Phase 2.  Training the 3 captains up to Fighter+5. 
Had a late start, but they are Fighter+2 in a season's worth of full time training. 

Migrants who come are proespective recruits, but start doing back-work for food, and digging for metal ores to make some armor and weapons in Phase 3. 

Phase 3. minimal metal armor + metal weapons, i.e. helm, mail shirt + axe / shield / hammer. 
Conveniently named the captains: [W]hiskey (axe), [T]horos (hammer) and [F]oxtrot (shield).  My WTF squad captains!

Each will have a teacher, and hopefully reach weapon skill+5 fairly fast with some armor user skill. 

I am also inclined to do edge + range soldier; so...
Phase 4.  The captains go back to civilian hunting duties.  It seems like live training with crossbow can get them to gain skills faster. 
Just aiming to get Crossbow+5 skill at least. 

Phase 5 is a decision to choose a main raiding skill: axe, crossbow, or spear. 
Uniforms will dictate:
Axe+crossbow. 
Crossbow only.  (maybe +hammer)
Spear+crossbow.
This is just an assumption on my part that "gear" helps in raiding.

Phase 5 focus is to train until skill Armor User+5 is reached.

Phase 6 adds Shield in the uniform to reach Shield+5. 

Phase 7 should make the captains ready to take on recruits for raids with full uniform: helm, mail shirt, breastplate, gauntlets, greaves, high boot, metal shield, melee weapon + crossbows. 
The recruits will settle for no breastplate, wood shield and weapon(s).

This plan may become abandoned as I've embark with War against Elves already, and a tower 3 region tiles away.

[rhavviepoodle]

Or did worldgen get updated to reflect equipment and tactics? 
And I'd recommend training dwarves up a bit on home turf, with training sessions and wild animals, before sending them out into the world.

Checking elven princesses (or other military leaders/generals) in legends viewer often shows that historical figures can develop skill in military tactics. It does seem to affect the probability of the parent entity winning battles. The current world I've got has four or five elven entities that have been stomping both humans and goblins. Their princesses all have decent skill as tacticians, some of them going as high as great.

[Insert_Gnome_Here]

I'd have studied tactician skill, but there doesn't seem to be a way to see it in DT. 
Can you see it in the v -> g screen?

[Sanctume]

I'd have studied tactician skill, but there doesn't seem to be a way to see it in DT. 
Can you see it in the v -> g screen?

I'll have to check tonight about Tactician skill.

I reached spring the next year without incident, except for a kobold thief sighting by a cat. 
I kinda don't like the axe only embark as I am scrambling to get some iron weapons, helms and mail shirts made. 
But I'll chill for now, and expect to switch training to 3 squads: axe, hammer and spear by summer. 

I dug deeper and did not see cavern yet, but hit marble flux, so now I am thinking of bypassing iron for steel weapons and armor right away. 

Spring migrants were only 3?   I was hoping 20+.  Now, I am tempted to go min/max and cap the pop to 19 until the 19 are mostly highest mood-able for weapon or armor.  A few dwarfs like Shields.  2 like war hammer, and 1 like axe, 1 short sword. 

I am just curious if using artifact weapons with the captain gives some "gear" boost in raiding.

[PatrikLundell]

I'd have studied tactician skill, but there doesn't seem to be a way to see it in DT. 
Can you see it in the v -> g screen?

You can get it in DT by setting up a custom view. Check the DT thread where I asked about it and Clément answered.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Or did worldgen get updated to reflect equipment and tactics? 
And I'd recommend training dwarves up a bit on home turf, with training sessions and wild animals, before sending them out into the world.

Checking elven princesses (or other military leaders/generals) in legends viewer often shows that historical figures can develop skill in military tactics. It does seem to affect the probability of the parent entity winning battles. The current world I've got has four or five elven entities that have been stomping both humans and goblins. Their princesses all have decent skill as tacticians, some of them going as high as great.

But I think they did before the squad updates too, didn't they?

[Warlord255]

Already filed a bug report, but should be relevant to discussion here.

Currently, anyone who dies during a raid is effectively erased from your fortress - their friends forget them and they can't be memorialized. Worth noting before you go attacking enemy sites.

EDIT: This may have to do with attacking caves, I'll double-check.