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[ShaveDaWookie]

sensitivity to the point of censorship, unless my first guess about yall trolling was correct

[George_Chickens]

sensitivity to the point of censorship, unless my first guess about yall trolling was correct

Uh, what? Nobody has been censored, as far as I am aware.

[ShaveDaWookie]

sorry i guess i was a bit dramatic, let me re-phrase

dont be so sensitive its just a game

[KittyTac]

sorry i guess i was a bit dramatic, let me re-phrase

dont be so sensitive its just a game

Yeah, I agree completely. Feeling actually disturbed at little bits of data being redistributed makes you sound like a wimp. DF doesn't even generate good stories, by the virtue of being less than 50% done. Maybe later, I will feel something about those "characters", but not now.

[Cathar]

And dogpiling another forumite to express an opinion makes you lose brownie points, are you done ?

But let's be real one sec. All we said is "yeah it's a bit tasteless" and next thing you know we're jumped by a gang who cries to censorship, and now we're the overensitive wimps. Look I wont follow you in the ground of personal insult but you guys might want to do some introspection

[Egan_BW]

You can't excuse it as roleplaying when it's not a thing that your character would indeed do.
Desire to genocide elves does not live anywhere in the game's files and code. It's just here. You made it. What should I therefore think of you?

[Cathar]

Eh. If it's how they play it's how they play. It's cool, earth is big enough for different views.

[bloop_bleep]

Eh. If it's how they play it's how they play. It's cool, earth is big enough for different views.

Glad you see it that way.

Before this escalates even further, let's get back on-topic.

I wonder, if all the various big and dangerous creatures you capture from elven retreats are war-trained, are they still war-trained when they are brought to your fortress?

[Flintfakeer]

You can't excuse it as roleplaying when it's not a thing that your character would indeed do.
Desire to genocide elves does not live anywhere in the game's files and code. It's just here. You made it. What should I therefore think of you?

In the Legends mode I read there exists very few worlds where dwarfs and elves don't war at some point or another, usually because the dwarfs are chopping trees and the elves are eating people. They are two groups who get along largely because they do not not interact much but when they do interact war quite often follows. If you read legends mode you will know that the dwarfs really do not like the elves and the elves really do not like the dwarfs. You have read the raws and you know the dwarfs and elves both have many conflicting beliefs; beliefs which their peoples cannot reconcile and which are quite mutually exclusive. I agree that dwarfs are for the most part a people that are chivalrous but you are playing as colonialists or, at the very least, frontiersman and they tend to not be the best society has to offer. Throughout history how many times has genocide been committed in the name of imperial expansion? By chivalrous and honorable people?

[Anandar]

If the elves attack and you retaliate and continue to attack till their complete destruction is assured that is genocide but in some ways it is also war... coz if you dont finish them off they will regroup repopulate and retaliate to your attacks... and i notice there seems to be no problem that goblins are vicious and genocidal... they would completely destroy all other civs in the game so responding with their destruction is not an issue? Keep in mind it is designed to be a world simulator... taking alot of reality into the game...

[George_Chickens]

Without being cut down to size, elves run the risk of (and, if you remember a few versions ago, frequently would) totally taking over the world and committing genocide themselves, due to their war animals, immortality, and loose ethical standards / bizarre morals putting them at odds with most non-elves. So you could argue that killing elves is a means of survival.

In the end, DF is simply a game, and it does not matter what you do to the elves provided that you have some fun with it. DF's ethical system is much looser and less defined than reality. Unlike it, there really are some races which are only capable of violence.

[wierd]

You have to understand.

The "Death to the pointy eared menace!!" cries of yore, come from the .40d days and earlier, when the diplomat was a thing.

The elven diplomat would-- IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT PROVOCATION, be the most offensive douchebag you have ever met. Even if you fullfill their extreme demands, they *STILL* insult you and all of dwarven kind.

This level of institutional racism from the elves towards dwarves, set people off, and the whole community basically just decided that the elves were too douchey to stay alive.

[FantasticDorf]

Some of the more dislikable also traits for elves come from popular culture & codified facet values in the game

Dwarves while they are greedy and immoderate represent some of the best known values of dilligence and mutal respect of craft, much of the time without aggressive player raids, dwarves are passive defenders of their lands and the elves infringe on them & the player.

Elves on the other hand are vengeful and self absorbed creatures who live virtually forever to stew over their angst, repeatedly starting wars because they can't let go of grievances outliving the people who originally perpetrated it. (unless of course you send over some troops to reduce the population)

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[Cathar]

You have to understand. [...]

I think yall miss the point I was trying to make, but I'm like, apparently it triggers everyone for reasons I can understand, so does it really worth the squabble.
I mean I remember those days where asking for peace meant taking shit from an absolute unbearable douche that escaped natural selection only because he's friend with it.
What I find disturbing is the show of gratuitous cruelty I see popping on at times. I find that tasteless. That's all I meant to say, that's not a call for censorship, a SJW push or whatever, it's just a statement of personal opinion. By all means carry on trading wooden caskets to elves so they get the message, it's not even my business

[Lord Shiteblast]

<snip> What I find disturbing is the show of gratuitous cruelty I see popping on at times. I find that tasteless. </snip>

Which is completely fine. Practically all of us think that. I think some forumites get naturally defensive because they feel there's an implication that they enjoy genocide or cruelty.

It is fair to say that there is a general consensus (at least amongst ourselves) that genocide or cruelty is detestable in the extreme, so when someone advocates for it, it is the shock factor we find funny. The meme relies on the natural hilarity of taking things to a ridiculous extreme.

It's also fun to roleplay the joy and sense of triumph at seeing your enemies crushed and mutilated.

It's a victimless crime. What would be fucked up is if we were deliberately associating the Elves with real world analogues and then making genocide jokes.

We're on the same page really, imho.