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[assimilateur]

1. How do I tweak likely relative populations and site numbers of civs? I tried fiddling around with these entity tags:

Code: [Select]

[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:1200]

The results are completely erratic. Most of the time humans are the most populous, sometimes it's elves. Since I'd like to make it easy to embark surrounded by hostile civs (I also introduced a giant civ that's crudely modded from the goblin entity), I'd like them to outnumber dwarves, humans and elves but not to the point where they usually go extinct.

Maybe introducing more entities would make this easier? I'm thinking that this would seriously increase the risk of non-hostile civs going extinct though.

2. How do I make sure other civs are hostile, other than giving all of them the [BABYSNATCHER] tag? I'd like them to be hostile towards each other as well, whereas making them baby snatchers would cause them all to team up against those without the tag.

2a. Does the [BABYSNATCHER] tag still work for, well, snatching babies post-worldgen? I literally never see those anymore, despite making sure that my progress triggers allowed for them to actually show up before I get sieges:

Code: [Select]

[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:3]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:0]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:5]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:0]

Thanks in advance. I guess I should point out that I'm playing 43.05.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Starting with twice as many goblin entities as others should see them outnumber everyone else. But too small a world and too long a history and, yeah, of course they're going to wipe out everyone else. Wouldn't be a history generator if that weren't a possibility.

Max site pop number only increases the maximum number of historical figures at each site so won't have much of an effect overall. I like to boost this, because historical figures make the world interesting.

[ITEM_THIEF] civs are also hostile to non-item_thief civs (including babysnatchers) so that's another way to generate 'sides'.

Babysnatchers are working just fine right now. I get loads (They're braver than thieves too, which is nice).

Make a snatcher civ aggressive enough and they'll happily start wars with fellow babysnatchers. Try to make their ethics as opposed as possible.

[Warlord255]

One thing to note is that your worldgen options have an entry for "population cap after civ creation" or similar, IIRC. This may be lower than the value you're setting your civs to, so your efforts there are getting cancelled out.

One thing to note is that max pop at a site determines its resilience to worldgen attacks, but also how often the civ will split off and start a new site - or at least it seems like it works that way. Too high a site pop and it'll be invincible, but never expand because it doesn't hit full capacity; too low and they'll spread like wildfire, but get crushed whenever they run into beasts or raiders.

[assimilateur]

Starting with twice as many goblin entities as others should see them outnumber everyone else.

I already have twice as many "goblin" entities as the default, as the giant entity is almost identical to the goblin one. And their population numbers are still so erratic that sometimes humans outnumber both of them together, twofold. But I guess some randomness is to be expected.

I'm probably going to introduce another one or two entities of tall vermin. Thinking cyclopes and ogres. Hopefully that's going to ensure a better ratio of hostile vs friendly populations.

[ITEM_THIEF] civs are also hostile to non-item_thief civs (including babysnatchers) so that's another way to generate 'sides'.

I thought that might be the case, but I'm also looking for a way of making them hostile that doesn't involve either of those tags, and thus avoids having "sides".

Babysnatchers are working just fine right now. I get loads (They're braver than thieves too, which is nice).

Since I got back to the game I saw literally zero snatchers, and I think one thief, across several games. And a bunch of those games lasted long enough to get sieges so I don't know what's going on. Have you looked at my trigger tokens? Maybe they're messed up somehow?

That reminds me: what tag was it that turned kobold entities invisible in the neighbors screen? [ITEM_THIEF] or something else?

Make a snatcher civ aggressive enough and they'll happily start wars with fellow babysnatchers. Try to make their ethics as opposed as possible.

So is the only way of making them aggressive, except for the thief and snatcher tags, their ethics?

One thing to note is that your worldgen options have an entry for "population cap after civ creation" or similar, IIRC. This may be lower than the value you're setting your civs to, so your efforts there are getting cancelled out.

I'll keep that in mind and increase it next time.

One thing to note is that max pop at a site determines its resilience to worldgen attacks, but also how often the civ will split off and start a new site - or at least it seems like it works that way. Too high a site pop and it'll be invincible, but never expand because it doesn't hit full capacity; too low and they'll spread like wildfire, but get crushed whenever they run into beasts or raiders.

Makes sense, so I'll probably leave that token as the default.

[TomiTapio]

MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER : "Max number of entities (not citizens) to spawn
at world generation. Worldgen picks civs in some sequential order from the raws. Once it reaches the end of the list, it will begin again at the top. Setting this number lower than 100, like say, 7, will cause worldgen to skip over this civ for placement if there are already 7 civs of this type."

Probably best to make duplicate entities/civs, so goblins1, goblins2, goblins3, goblins4. This way it doesn't matter as much when one goblin civ is wiped out.

One might tweak one's worldgen.txt's
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
   [SITE_CAP:1500]

[assimilateur]

I'll look at the worldgen parameters when I next gen a world.

[assimilateur]

That reminds me: what tag was it that turned kobold entities invisible in the neighbors screen? [ITEM_THIEF] or something else?

Bumping for an answer for this.

[Shonai_Dweller]

That reminds me: what tag was it that turned kobold entities invisible in the neighbors screen? [ITEM_THIEF] or something else?

Bumping for an answer for this.

Having cave sites makes them invisible.
Regular skulkers and item_thieves will spread out like usual civs and be visible on the map.

I have a few babysnatcher civs, including one set of invisible cave dwellers and they always come a-snatching when I'm near them (and have kids). Might be related to my trigger settings, I suppose. I've not Scienced it enough.

[TheDorf]

Starting with twice as many goblin entities as others should see them outnumber everyone else. But too small a world and too long a history and, yeah, of course they're going to wipe out everyone else. Wouldn't be a history generator if that weren't a possibility.

Max site pop number only increases the maximum number of historical figures at each site so won't have much of an effect overall. I like to boost this, because historical figures make the world interesting.

[ITEM_THIEF] civs are also hostile to non-item_thief civs (including babysnatchers) so that's another way to generate 'sides'.

Babysnatchers are working just fine right now. I get loads (They're braver than thieves too, which is nice).

Make a snatcher civ aggressive enough and they'll happily start wars with fellow babysnatchers. Try to make their ethics as opposed as possible.

So duplicating the evil entity, keeping the babysnatcher tag and smacking on the itemthief tag will make the new goblin entity hostile towards all entities except kobolds? Or including kobolds because kobolds don't have the babysnatcher tag?

[Shonai_Dweller]

Starting with twice as many goblin entities as others should see them outnumber everyone else. But too small a world and too long a history and, yeah, of course they're going to wipe out everyone else. Wouldn't be a history generator if that weren't a possibility.

Max site pop number only increases the maximum number of historical figures at each site so won't have much of an effect overall. I like to boost this, because historical figures make the world interesting.

[ITEM_THIEF] civs are also hostile to non-item_thief civs (including babysnatchers) so that's another way to generate 'sides'.

Babysnatchers are working just fine right now. I get loads (They're braver than thieves too, which is nice).

Make a snatcher civ aggressive enough and they'll happily start wars with fellow babysnatchers. Try to make their ethics as opposed as possible.

So duplicating the evil entity, keeping the babysnatcher tag and smacking on the itemthief tag will make the new goblin entity hostile towards all entities except kobolds? Or including kobolds because kobolds don't have the babysnatcher tag?

I don't know. I always use one or the other. Try it!

One other thing, on the wiki it mentions bugs with merchants if you make your fortress playable race an item_thief civ. That was fixed in 44.01 so you don't have to worry about that.

[assimilateur]

Having cave sites makes them invisible.

That's unexpected. So it's the default site tag? Some others have caves as alternative sites, I think, and they are still visible.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Having cave sites makes them invisible.

That's unexpected. So it's the default site tag? Some others have caves as alternative sites, I think, and they are still visible.

Alternative sites are OK, but if it's their initial site (forget the tag right now), they won't spread out and will remain invisible. Makes their civ especially vulnerable to extinction by megabeast. I have about 10 times as many cave civs as anything else just to make sure there's still a few around after a few years.

[Nahere]

So duplicating the evil entity, keeping the babysnatcher tag and smacking on the itemthief tag will make the new goblin entity hostile towards all entities except kobolds? Or including kobolds because kobolds don't have the babysnatcher tag?

Hostile to kobolds as well. There are four available "factions", based on the presence of those two tags. Also, kobolds are hostile to everyone anyway, becasue they don't have [CAN_SPEAK].

[Shonai_Dweller]

So duplicating the evil entity, keeping the babysnatcher tag and smacking on the itemthief tag will make the new goblin entity hostile towards all entities except kobolds? Or including kobolds because kobolds don't have the babysnatcher tag?

Hostile to kobolds as well. There are four available "factions", based on the presence of those two tags. Also, kobolds are hostile to everyone anyway, becasue they don't have [CAN_SPEAK].

Isn't it because they have [UTTERANCES]?
(And actually, I don't think that's true any more. My non-thief, non-snatcher utterance tribes seem to be non-hostile to dwarves, while the item_thief tribes show as non-hostile to my item_thief wild dwarves).

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Any Faction with UTTERANCES or lacking CAN_SPEAK are normally at war because "they can't meet and form peace treaties" thus they are a hostile civ.

Already Mentioned you can make about 3-4 factions I believe

No ITEM_THIEF and BABY_SNATCHER tags
ITEM_THEIF
BABY_SNATCHER
Both BABY_SNATCHER and ITEM_THIEF

Civs that live in CAVEs as their Default or are LAYER_LINKED will be invisible on the embark screen/map and won't branch out due to being "underground". Also LAYER_LINKED civs appear at the depth their respective creatures can inhabit (verify?)

I think someone Covered SKULKING as allowing the civ to not engage in wars?