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[moghopper]

Welp, seeing as my health has finally recovered to the point where I feel I can work properly again, I wanted to get a project back on track. Namely, the affordable wargaming project

From the first thread:
So, I'm sure more than a few of us on the forums are wargamers. I for one, used to be, until the prices put me off it completely. I doubt I am the only one in this situation. Even with the models, you tend to need expensive rulebooks and paint to go with it.

Now, over the years I have been working on and off on a wargame of my own, and I was also thinking on the best way to eliminate the pricing issue.

Now, what I want to do can basically summed up as an alternate reality version of WW1 and WW2. The game would focus on naval warfare and use weapons and equipment of those eras.

The setting will, of course, be very different (different world, different nations, etc...). Now, in relating to the pricing problems that many wargames suffer from, I want to make this using laminated carboard punch outs. This means no expensive miniatures, no expensive paint, and no painting required.

What I am hoping for is to be able to sell a starter pack (Rulebook, 2 full fleets, and maybe dice and some terrain) for 20-30$ tops. Other fleets would be maybe 10-15$, and things such as terrain and misc. units would be similarly cheap.

Lose your army? Instead of being out hundreds or thousands of dollars, you could replace it for maybe 40$. Rulebook, army, dice, and terrain catch fire and get sucked into a black hole? Same low price.

If I can pull everything off right I can make a fun and decently flesh out game affordable to most anyone.

What I need though is help. I can write out rules and balance factions easily enough, but I can't draw, nor can I write fluff (or write well at all), or provide any kind of editing in regards to the above. I am hoping I can recruit some help in this regard. I want to put a team together and get this to a point where we can start working on publishing, ideally funded by a kickstarter.

If you are interested in pitching in, please feel free to message me. If you have questions or snide remarks, please post them in the thread.
(I won't mind snide remarks or jackassery so long as it is funny!)

Two Important Things to Note:
First off, anyone who works on the project will be compensated. The amount everyone (including myself) would receive would be based on how well the project does.

Second, I am more than willing to be flexible with the art style and the setting. I would love to see what people come up with.
End of Old Thread Content

Now, I HAVE been able to get some basic mechanics laid out. For example, a ship would have these statistics:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hull- Essentially the Hit Points of the vessel. Once Hull hits zero, the ship is effectively dead, though it could also explode violently, or be rendered a derelict/burning derelict. Total Hull would depend mainly on ship size, so a small destroyer may have 1 or 2 hull while a large dreadnought would have 12 or more.

Durability- A measure of how tough a ship is. Durability governs how hard it is for weapons to damage a ship. Certain weak weapons will not even scratch a ship with very high durability, whereas very powerful ones can cause damage with ease or even insta-kill a target. Durability ranges from 1 (weakest) to 5 (Toughest).

Belt- How thick a given vessels side armor is. Any weapon that hits a vessel must first be able to penetrate the armor before it can deal damage. If a shell equals or beats the armor, then it rolls against durability to cause damage. If it cannot beat the armor, the shell either shatters on impact or bounces off. Measured in mm's. Ranges from around 32mm to 500mm+

Deck- Same as Belt, except it protects from plunging fire instead of direct fire. Deck armor is much thinner than belt armor, so a ship with a weapon incapable of penetrating a targets belt could try for a deck shot instead. Please note that plunging fire is only possible at longer ranges.

Torpedo Defence- How well the ship can take torpedo hits. Works similar to durability, but only affects torpedoes. However, even if the torpedo fails to beat the defence, it still causes one damage (since torpedoes are really deadly). If a torpedo DOES beat the defence, then it does D3 damage (Stay AWAY from torpedoes).
Ranges from 1 (Weakest) to 5 (Toughest)

Anti Air- How many anti aircraft guns a ship has, and how effective they are. As one would expect, it is used to take down hostile aircraft. Each ship gets a number of shots, as well as an indication of how accurate they are (IE: 5/4+)

Speed- How far the ship can move during its turn. Smaller ships would move farther, while larger ones would be slower.

Turning- Indicates what kind of turn a ship may make, and how far it must first move before turning (IE 45 degrees for every 3 inches moved).

Aside from this, I have also been working on how weapons and range all work together, as well as critical damage effects and aircraft. If you are interested in hearing more, let me know and I will post what I have.

[Fishbreath]

Definitely, definitely posting to watch.

[moghopper]

So anyways, lets talk about weaponry.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There are three main types of weapons I have planned: Artillery, Torpedoes, and Bombs. However, before talking about each of them, I think it would be best to mention how range works. Artillery and Torpedoes have five range bands:
Band 1 (Point Blank)
Band 2 (Close Range)
Band 3 (Standoff)
Band 4 (Long Range)
Band 5 (Extreme Range)
As range increases accuracy falls. In the case of artillery penetration also drops, but increased range does increase the odds of hitting a targets deck. So if you can't deal with a targets belt armor, you may be able to get through the deck plating. Additionally, at closer ranges penetration INCREASES, so if you can't penetrate armor at longer ranges you can try to get closer for a better shot.

Now, onto the weapons themselves

Artillery- The main armament of virtually every warship. Artillery comes in sizes ranging from 2 inches to 20 inches (yes I know that is massive). Artillery has a few different stats: Power (How likely the shot is to cause damage), Penetration (How much armor it will penetrate, which changes based on range), Range (In the five aforementioned bands), and Accuracy (To hit belt or Deck, Changes with range).

Torpedoes- Very dangerous. Torpedoes operate on range bands similar to artillery and lose accuracy as range increases. However, unlike artillery they have no penetration value, and no chance to hit the deck. Instead they go up against torpedo defence. As mentioned in the first post they can do anywhere between 1 to 1d3 damage EACH. Torpedoes have 3 stats: Power, Range, and Accuracy.

Bombs- Bombs are dropped from dive bombers and only hit deck armor. Not much to say about them right now as they basically function as point blank artillery. Bombs have 2 stats: Power and Penetration.

Feel free to tell me what you think.

Edit: Seriously, any feedback at all would help. I need to know if things look good or awful.

Further Edit: Since I am still working out how I want to handle aircraft, I will instead talk about the unit types that you can choose from.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Destroyer- Smaller craft, mainly designed for recon, escort, and torpedo duties. Destroyers are frail but also very fast and difficult to hit with larger guns. While they are very vulnerable, their torpedoes make them a very deadly threat to any kind of ship, so they must be respected.

Protected Cruiser- A step up from destroyers. Protected cruisers function as generalists, with larger and more numerous guns. However, due to the lack of belt armor, they suffer more from critical hits than other ship types. Protected cruisers are eventually rendered obsolete by the introduction of light cruisers.

Armored Cruiser- Armored cruisers function as hunter killers and second line combatants, being faster than a battleship, better armored than protected cruisers, and better armed as well. These ships can function in a battle line or independently. Armored cruisers eventually become obsolete once heavy cruisers become available.

Battle-cruiser- Fast capital ships that sacrifice protection for speed. Anything they can catch, they can kill, and anything the can't kill, they can outrun. Their greater speed and agility compared to battleships allows them to dictate the terms of engagement and disengage if needed. However their limited protection leaves them vulnerable.

Battleship- Slow juggernauts with massive firepower and protection. Battleships are capable of obliterating any other ship in the sea and soaking up great amounts of punishment. They pay for this with their slow and ponderous movement.

Light Cruiser- Cruisers with lighter armor and firepower than larger ships, but with better armor and weaponry than protected cruisers. These eventually replace protected cruisers as the jack-of-all-trades in most navies. Light cruisers also feature greatly enhanced AA capabilities and some also feature formidable torpedo armament.

Heavy Cruiser- Heavy cruisers are the successor to the armored cruiser. Protection wise, the can be anywhere between light cruiser and armored cruiser. What differentiates them from light cruisers is a more powerful main battery, and what differentiates them from armored cruisers is greater speed and agility. This makes heavy cruisers excellent multi role combatants. Heavy cruisers may also feature enhanced AA and torpedo armament similar to their light cruiser cousins.

I understand that these are par for the course for most naval games. However, I am also planning on other ship types to supplement these ones as the game gets more developed. These would include things like gunboats, merchants, armed merchants, and others.

Additionally, I was thinking that when players set up a game they would agree on a year that the battle takes place. This would limit what units are available for use, but I am unsure if this system would be welcome. Please tell me what you think.

More Edits: Okay. lets delve into game mechanics and game setup

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 First up, I want to explain a bit about game mechanics.

Shooting and accuracy- As I mentioned above, there are five range bands for weapons and that accuracy and penetration change at each. As an example, refer to the table below:
                                             
Range Bands---->                   3"              6"            9"            12"            15"
                                             ================================
To Hit (Belt/Deck)                   3+/-          4+/-         4+/-        5/-             6+/6+
Penetration (Belt)                   295mm      254mm    201mm    154mm      102mm
Penetration (Deck)                  N/A           N/A          N/A          N/A           51mm

As you can see, accuracy and penetration drop as range increases. However, in this case range band 5 allows for plunging fire, meaning that it has a chance of penetrating close to 2 inches of deck armor.

Damage- As stated in the first post, weapons have a power rating that determines just how hard they hit, and ships have a durability rating representing how hard they are to damage. When an attack hits a target and penetrates the armor then players compare the power and durability

     1      2      3      4     5      (Weapon Power)
==================
1|  4+   3+    2+   ID    ID

2|  5+   4+    3+   2+   ID

3| 6+    5+    4+   3+   2+

4| N/A   6+   5+    4+   3+

5| N/A   N/A  6+   5+   4+
^
|------Ship Durability

As you can see, attacks that equal a targets durability have a 50% chance of dealing damage, and more or less powerful attacks have a greater or lesser chance to cause damage as is to be expected.

N/A indicates that an attack is too weak to cause meaningful damage, while ID indicates that such a frail target is instantly put out of action from an attack.


I will post more mechanics later....
 

[moghopper]

Can I please get some feedback? Even if everything is awful, I need to know.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Prototype it. After all, printer paper cutouts are only a step away from the finished product. It doesn't have to look good, but give us visual examples of the game mechanics. As they say in writing it is better to write a COMPLETE rough draft no matter how shitty rather than revise the first thing you come up with over and over again.

[bloop_bleep]

PTW. Seems interesting.

Not very many people frequent Creative Projects, so that probably explains the inactivity. You could perhaps move it to General Discussion, that has more activity and this wouldn't be terribly off-topic there.

[moghopper]

Prototype it. After all, printer paper cutouts are only a step away from the finished product. It doesn't have to look good, but give us visual examples of the game mechanics. As they say in writing it is better to write a COMPLETE rough draft no matter how shitty rather than revise the first thing you come up with over and over again.

I will work on it this weekend then! I will be stuck inside anyways and it should prove interesting.

What specifically would you like demonstrated? I try to cover as much as I can, but what would you all like to see first?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Game prototyping is all sorts of fun!

First write down the rules on a pice of paper. Which you've already started on. Limit yourself to one full sheet though, front and back. You can add and subtract at will. After all some tabletops have massive fucking textbooks. But start with just one page.

Then make enough paper tokens for two large sized armies and play a game with a friend or against yourself.

Take pictures of every turn.

Document it a la an AAR. Part of the fun of any strategy game is feeling like a great general with great stories of course!

Do an in-depth analysis of a few select turns that really showcase the rules and core mechanics!

Post it!

[moghopper]

Okay. So I won't be able to do the gameplay demo this weekend, but I will be able to prototype the game. Then the next weekend I can give a gameplay demo.

When prototyping where do i start?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Okay. So I won't be able to do the gameplay demo this weekend, but I will be able to prototype the game. Then the next weekend I can give a gameplay demo.

When prototyping where do i start?

First write down the rules on a pice of paper. Which you've already started on. Limit yourself to one full sheet though, front and back. You can add and subtract at will. After all some tabletops have massive fucking textbooks. But start with just one page.

Then make enough paper tokens for two large sized armies and play a game with a friend or against yourself.

Take pictures of every turn.

Document it a la an AAR. Part of the fun of any strategy game is feeling like a great general with great stories of course!

Do an in-depth analysis of a few select turns that really showcase the rules and core mechanics!

Post it!

Just grab some printer paper, scissors, and pencils/markers!

[moghopper]

I was actually referring to how I should order the rules, but i guess I can wing it.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I was actually referring to how I should order the rules, but i guess I can wing it.

General turn order first and then specific clarifications for each step is probably the most helpful.

[moghopper]

Sorry for not replying in a bit.

Still working on the prototype (I write slow), but it will be ready for a demo next weekend.

Edit: I would like to mention that my writing skills are pretty bad, so don't expect overly high quality here. I really do hope I can get a decent writer on board for this afterwards.

[moghopper]

Just wanted to let you all know. If I can get access to a printer tomorrow, I will be doing the test game.

Edit: Ugh....

So, delayed again. I'm sorry this keeps happening. Every time I start making progress I keep getting dragged off.

I have the rules prototype. I have the demo units finished. I just need to print them off and I can get the game played and post a battle report.

Honestly, I am getting frustrated at not being able to meet deadlines I set.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Keep at it dude. If you can find someone who is also excited to play it may help you out?