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[Shonai_Dweller]

And it's not like people are going to be teaching others how to mod on the Steam forum. All of that support is right here.

Depending on how its implemented, a guide on how to mod might be nessecary to put some control into first time players approaching through the medium of ASCII being a little bit heavy (without using starting packs) and to revert + alter changes to the mods that they are playing if they suddenly find a issue where they need to reset because of flawed or overlapping raws but don't want to lose savefiles not stored on cloud etc.

Simple things like pointing out the right directories, and the differences + syntax of the file types; I think mods for world presets to add to advanced generation will be VERY popular however besides from full content overhauls/re-writes like the Masterwork mod, smaller mods i dont think will draw a lot of traction like the forums but that's my reserved opinion.

Just using Crusader Kings as an example. Modding is discussed and has a guide on the official forums. Dwarf Fortress has a wiki and the official forums. I don't think anybody is going to need more help beyond a link to both. A guide just for people who can't use a computer and don't know how to exit Steam isn't necessary.

[therahedwig]

hm... I was a little surprised to see 'our first end of the world' mentioned in the report post, but I guess we'll learn soon what that'll entail precisely Maybe we'll get a new age 'the age of zombies' :p

[Bumber]

Maybe there could be a bot that allows you to upload a DFFD mod to the Steam workshop.

[Rose]

Or just only maintain the mods on the forum.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Or just only maintain the mods on the forum.

Steam workshop is one of the selling points. For casual users, it's fantastic. Click and you're in dinosaur world. Click and you're back at vanilla.

[iceball3]

Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.

The large number of people on various forums excited about "finally being able to use mods" would suggest that the current system isn't as plug and play as we might perceive it to be.

A lot of people are put off by concepts which are second nature to most of us who have used computers for many years. Editing a text file, copying a tileset into a folder, copying a set of mod files into the DF folder. All of these things are completely foreign to the audience Steam release is trying to reach. They want to click "add dinosaurs" and play with dinosaurs, then click once more to remove dinosaurs. And if they can't do that, a thousand other games on Steam which don't require leaving their comfort zone beckon.

But, yes, mods are just text files copy them some place and you can use them whatever platform you're on. It'd be trivial for non-Steam users to get hold of any mod they want. Better for new modders to learn that there's a place where the whole community can access their mods and put up a version at DFFD themselves, even if it's up to a fan of that mod to keep it updated with the latest Workshop version.

[FantasticDorf]

But, yes, mods are just text files copy them some place and you can use them whatever platform you're on. It'd be trivial for non-Steam users to get hold of any mod they want. Better for new modders to learn that there's a place where the whole community can access their mods and put up a version at DFFD themselves, even if it's up to a fan of that mod to keep it updated with the latest Workshop version.

I've spent more time writing my own code for RAW's in stuff i could but haven't released at all simply because its either not as polished as id like and i don't really want to be responsible for maintaining it outside of my own comfortable use, other mod distributors also use sometimes annoying formats like compact it into RAR files, most people have them but others can't be bothered to open it compared to just downloading a zipped folder. (and other mediums)

• Steams subscription and prescribed modding changes would make a lot of difference to automatically apply mods without getting hands dirty, i also wonder how hard or easy it will be to actually get into the steam-DF's RAW's without a change in UI and profile management compared to the desktop version which is as easy as copy and repeating its file over and over or right clicking a shortcut : CDDA like Mod Manager Utility?.

Its easy to forget that while other code languages like python and MUD's (such as BYOND) are technically nitty gritty, DF's has a bunch of imposed syntax rules and pretty restrictive limits that can be annoying to find ways around to exploit without even going into the detail of people who write DFscripts to really push the game.

[Schmaven]

The Lazy Newb Pack is about as easy as it gets for using the mods / various graphics included with it.  However, if someone wants to create a mod, but doesn't want to learn how to use a computer a little more than normal, they are being quite unrealistic in their expectations.  The steam release looks like it's going to be amazing as is, unmodded.  So the need for casual style gamers to add mods, with no interest in learning how to copy and paste, would hardly ever arise. 

I too want as many people as possible to enjoy Dwarf Fortress at least as much as I do.  And I agree that some would be put off by the current steps required to add a mod.  I just don't think it's going to be a statistically significant number of people who fall into that category.  But it certainly could be. 

I suppose given that the steam release is going to have graphics, and more music in addition to just being a fun game in general; the group most likely to be adversely affected by adding mods on top of this will be the modders themselves who want their mods to get more exposure with the steam player base.

[Dorsidwarf]

The Lazy Newb Pack is about as easy as it gets for using the mods / various graphics included with it.  However, if someone wants to create a mod, but doesn't want to learn how to use a computer a little more than normal, they are being quite unrealistic in their expectations.  The steam release looks like it's going to be amazing as is, unmodded.  So the need for casual style gamers to add mods, with no interest in learning how to copy and paste, would hardly ever arise. 

I too want as many people as possible to enjoy Dwarf Fortress at least as much as I do.  And I agree that some would be put off by the current steps required to add a mod.  I just don't think it's going to be a statistically significant number of people who fall into that category.  But it certainly could be. 

I suppose given that the steam release is going to have graphics, and more music in addition to just being a fun game in general; the group most likely to be adversely affected by adding mods on top of this will be the modders themselves who want their mods to get more exposure with the steam player base.

mmm, elitism

[Shonai_Dweller]

The Lazy Newb Pack is about as easy as it gets for using the mods / various graphics included with it.  However, if someone wants to create a mod, but doesn't want to learn how to use a computer a little more than normal, they are being quite unrealistic in their expectations.  The steam release looks like it's going to be amazing as is, unmodded.  So the need for casual style gamers to add mods, with no interest in learning how to copy and paste, would hardly ever arise. 

I too want as many people as possible to enjoy Dwarf Fortress at least as much as I do.  And I agree that some would be put off by the current steps required to add a mod.  I just don't think it's going to be a statistically significant number of people who fall into that category.  But it certainly could be. 

I suppose given that the steam release is going to have graphics, and more music in addition to just being a fun game in general; the group most likely to be adversely affected by adding mods on top of this will be the modders themselves who want their mods to get more exposure with the steam player base.

I suggest you hang out at some other forums for a while. The myth that dwarf fortress requires mods to be playable is still highly prevailant (however wrong). The opinion that Steam Workshop will therefore make Dwarf Fortress a playable game and therefore something people want to buy is being spouted at a regular rate.

You can't just ignore that, say tough luck, learn to love copy-paste, anyone who can't shouldn't play my game, and then expect to make money from releasing on Steam (the whole point).

Steam Workshop is happening. Would be mad for it to not. But it only becomes a problem if people go exclusively Steam workshop to release their mods (besides premium tileset adaptations which will have to be locked).

If the place to learn about modding is here, the wiki and Reddit and this is made known and mentioned regularly, and if the forums continue to welcome new modders, this wont ever become a problem as people will already be part of the community.

Makes no sense to block your mod off from half the community. Except if you don't know it's there.

[Schmaven]

As long as there are clear instructions available for each step of adding the mods in question, I don't think there's anything to worry about. 

My only concerns are that the steps required for adding mods to the steam version will be too numerous for someone to follow.  Or that the steam version will not allow certain really cool mods in (like Masterwork) - thereby forcing someone off the steam platform to play it.

[Shonai_Dweller]

As long as there are clear instructions available for each step of adding the mods in question, I don't think there's anything to worry about. 

My only concerns are that the steps required for adding mods to the steam version will be too numerous for someone to follow.  Or that the steam version will not allow certain really cool mods in (like Masterwork) - thereby forcing someone off the steam platform to play it.

Toady's not about to spend months on improving accessibility in order to sell a game with Steam Workshop access only to have it more complex than "click, mod on, click mod off" like every other game on Steam.

Especially not with people like Meph on the team who knows exactly what changes the game/file structure needs (if any) to be able to add Masterwork at a click.

[therahedwig]

I think you shouldn't forget the main mod people want is a graphical mod, and one of those is going to be bundled. After that, if they want extra challenge and the most challenging mod is only available on the forums using old fashioned text editing, players will find it as long as people are willing to point to the modding subforum. I mean, they WERE looking for an extra challenge

As for the rest, just encourage modders to post on both places. Modders need to learn how to mod, so they'll find the modding subforum quickly enough. And you can just point out that, hey, there's people who cannot afford the steam version, so it'd be cool if mods are made available to them too. And the game is going to come out on itch.io too, which doesn't have a modding thingymabob.

[Bumber]

Or that the steam version will not allow certain really cool mods in (like Masterwork) - thereby forcing someone off the steam platform to play it.

I'm pretty sure you can still manually install mods in the Steam\SteamApps\common\ directory.