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[Sarmatian123]

In my latest fortress, on all-minimum settings, the only Goblin site went down to 60 Goblins. If Dark Tower depopulates entirely, then entire level of fun will be gone from the game. I wish there was in diplomacy option to give back prisoners captured in cages. It could work like tribute thingy. Just instead of goods, the cargo would be the cages with imprisoned Goblins. Just a thought.

[Shonai_Dweller]

In my latest fortress, on all-minimum settings, the only Goblin site went down to 60 Goblins. If Dark Tower depopulates entirely, then entire level of fun will be gone from the game. I wish there was in diplomacy option to give back prisoners captured in cages. It could work like tribute thingy. Just instead of goods, the cargo would be the cages with imprisoned Goblins. Just a thought.

That's more of an issue of playing in the tiniest world possible. Probably better off just generating a world with a few more goblins.

Even giving them back, you would run out of goblins eventually anyway through battles. Unless your idea of Fun is a field of cage traps. Goblins appear, siege ends, return goblins, repeat, repeat, yawn...

[GoblinCookie]

That's more of an issue of playing in the tiniest world possible. Probably better off just generating a world with a few more goblins.

Even giving them back, you would run out of goblins eventually anyway through battles. Unless your idea of Fun is a field of cage traps. Goblins appear, siege ends, return goblins, repeat, repeat, yawn...

Still it is a good idea in general.  I modded all sentient beings to be immune to cage traps (and traps in general) so it does not matter to me though. 

[Shonai_Dweller]

Sure, prisoner exchange is a great idea in itself. Just the reasoning here was weird.

[GoblinCookie]

Seems this idea is come (fairly) soon based upon the new development page.   

[Sarmatian123]

Sweet! Though tbh, I don't want Toady to rush anything or do anything, because of what I write here on forums. I do help what I can with tracing bugs with my vanilla client. All I was doing for last 2 years really. However I was told by mod to write some of the stuff here instead, as it doesn't belong on bug tracker. Just few ideas and suggestions. Comments from bug tracker really about my experiences playing DF. I did write down like 250+ notes when playing DF. Things I found odd or even irritating. Some of them were solved with patches. Some will on next patch actually lolz. All those suggestions can be safely ignored, unless devs find them somehow appealing and easy to implement.

[FantasticDorf]

In many ways this is demanding that the bug regarding trading intelligents being emptied and restuffed (often leading to rampages) back into the cage within the depot is fixed in a contextual way.

Though it would still be nice with the appropriate ethics to be able to offend people by attempting to sell them a intelligent being, maybe (just maybe) the humans might take a few POW's or cavern troglodytes off your hands to push into slavery & servitude for a pretty penny & price.

[Dorsidwarf]

In many ways this is demanding that the bug regarding trading intelligents being emptied and restuffed (often leading to rampages) back into the cage within the depot is fixed in a contextual way.

Though it would still be nice with the appropriate ethics to be able to offend people by attempting to sell them a intelligent being, maybe (just maybe) the humans might take a few POW's or cavern troglodytes off your hands to push into slavery & servitude for a pretty penny & price.

I think you might reasonably end up with the broker/hauler being sentenced to hammerstrokes if you tried to sell sentient prisoners. It's a capital offense for dwarves.

[GoblinCookie]

I think you might reasonably end up with the broker/hauler being sentenced to hammerstrokes if you tried to sell sentient prisoners. It's a capital offense for dwarves.

Should the player really be allowed to order dwarves to do illegal things they would not themselves do if they were autonomous beings?

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think you might reasonably end up with the broker/hauler being sentenced to hammerstrokes if you tried to sell sentient prisoners. It's a capital offense for dwarves.

Should the player really be allowed to order dwarves to do illegal things they would not themselves do if they were autonomous beings?

I think once "ethics" and "law" is better defined (post-starting scenarios) it would be fine for the player to do order dwarves to do illegal things with the consequences of retribution from the capital. Bandits and criminals do exist in the world after all. Since plans have already been mentioned for having unhappy dwarves rebel against the player eventually, this would just push the more lawfully inclined dwarves towards rebelling/leaving.

But ordering dorfs to go against ethics and possibly subject their immortal souls to an eternity of pain (or resurrection as a rat) shouldn't be allowed (or maybe only under extreme circumstances where you have a cult leader like figure acting as fortress leader deliberately trying to alter their ethics).

[GoblinCookie]

I think once "ethics" and "law" is better defined (post-starting scenarios) it would be fine for the player to do order dwarves to do illegal things with the consequences of retribution from the capital. Bandits and criminals do exist in the world after all. Since plans have already been mentioned for having unhappy dwarves rebel against the player eventually, this would just push the more lawfully inclined dwarves towards rebelling/leaving.

But ordering dorfs to go against ethics and possibly subject their immortal souls to an eternity of pain (or resurrection as a rat) shouldn't be allowed (or maybe only under extreme circumstances where you have a cult leader like figure acting as fortress leader deliberately trying to alter their ethics).

If successful rebellions meant losing the game (what I have always held should be the case but it was not popular) then rebellion would be a sound solution for what happens if we order our dwarves to do something illegal and/or unethical.  This not being the case we basically need to come up with a situation where in order to do unethical/illegal things we will have to find suitable dwarves to do the job.  Then we can it so that rebellions can remove individuals from power, or banish/kill them so that the player is forced to behave themselves because there is nobody anymore in their fortress that is in a position to do the illegal/unethical thing the player wants to do. 

To facilitate this the player's ability to appoint noble positions would have to be curtailed or restricted.  You should be able to direct appoint a new mayor and the other government positions should depend upon some affinity with the appointer's beliefs.  Otherwise we end up with an endless rotating door by which the player appoints a dwarf to a position, he is overthrown but the player then simply sacks the new position-holder and reappoints the original one.