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Author Topic: Merchants Guild HQ  (Read 2941 times)

Glass

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2018, 12:19:30 am »

they can't do this forever, since increasing luck costs karma
...you do realize that the mage solution is mainly about balancing out the good/bad luck by taking out the awesome and worthless outcomes, yes? Presumably, it would take something like a dozen mage-assisted trips to get even 1 Karma point dinged. Decreasing the standard deviation isn't increasing luck; it's just balancing the scales a bit more.

And that's assuming that anybody even knows how/if the Karma system is going to work.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

bloop_bleep

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 01:06:27 am »

Decreasing the standard deviation decreases risk, which increases the quality of the investment, which increases the luck of the person making the investment.

And besides, you're increasing expectation as well, from 8.75 to 12. (I used 12 instead of 9 because I'm including the rewards that go to you.) It's pretty OP if you can just summon buttloads of money for everyone without even using karma points.

I've also found some other problems with the karma system (as you currently seem to be using it), so I'll post my suggestions in the Mage's Guild thread.

EDIT: Also, I made a spreadsheet to automate my number-crunching, and turns out some of my numbers were a bit wrong. I'll edit my previous post.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 01:08:58 am by bloop_bleep »
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bloop_bleep

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 02:24:17 am »

Another double-post! I've created a spreadsheet to keep track of all the bookkeeping. It can be viewed at this link. The bookkeeping stuff is under the "Char Assets" and "Guild Assets" tabs. If anyone sees any information is wrong or can be filled out, please tell me.

In fact, I suggest this: once we appoint a Guildmaster, they will appoint a Bookkeeper, who will be in charge of maintaining this spreadsheet. When the spreadsheet is updated at the end of every day/night cycle (the Bookkeeper should preferably notify us of this in this thread), any member of the Merchant Guild can reject the changes with an explanation, after which the Merchant Guild will hold a vote on whether the spreadsheet is valid. The game will be RETCON'd if it's decided that it isn't.
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The closest thing Bay12 has to a flamewar is an argument over philosophy that slowly transitioned to an argument about quantum mechanics.
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The trick is to only make predictions semi-seriously.  That way, I don't have a 98% failure rate. I have a 98% sarcasm rate.

RoseHeart

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 02:48:49 am »

Isn't none 0.5 probability?
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bloop_bleep

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2018, 02:52:39 am »

Isn't none 0.5 probability?

Oh, most recently I changed the parameters to those of the Mage's Guild's so I could calculate their statistics.
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The closest thing Bay12 has to a flamewar is an argument over philosophy that slowly transitioned to an argument about quantum mechanics.
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The trick is to only make predictions semi-seriously.  That way, I don't have a 98% failure rate. I have a 98% sarcasm rate.

RoseHeart

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 03:07:39 am »

Ah I see.
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. -Robert Caro

UristMcChladni

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2018, 12:30:40 pm »

I don't think we have to get involved in mining directly. I think that the merchant guild should limit itself to trade and the distribution of financial instruments, including loans and insurances. Money printing machines are really outside the scope of our mandate. The mage's guild is involved in that because it's a luck based operation.

If there's something we should do in response to the mage guild thing, it's to establish a payment plan where we sponsor somebody to mine using the mage's guild system, and take a portion of the profits whenever they succeed. Obviously we'd balance this to earn us a profit. We're bankers and merchants, not magic workers.

RoseHeart

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2018, 12:36:42 pm »

As a natural resource, it actually gives the Rangers a stake in it.

However balancing the economy, is our duty.



Especially the rate of creation of gold.
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. -Robert Caro

UristMcChladni

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 12:38:44 pm »

We need a source of generated money. Given the fact that we currently mint coins from gold in the ground, we can only generate money as fast as people mine. It's not even up to us how quickly it happens yet. I'm uncomfortable with us as a guild generating money not mined from the ground.

bloop_bleep

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 01:17:32 pm »

I don't think we have to get involved in mining directly. I think that the merchant guild should limit itself to trade and the distribution of financial instruments, including loans and insurances. Money printing machines are really outside the scope of our mandate. The mage's guild is involved in that because it's a luck based operation.

If there's something we should do in response to the mage guild thing, it's to establish a payment plan where we sponsor somebody to mine using the mage's guild system, and take a portion of the profits whenever they succeed. Obviously we'd balance this to earn us a profit. We're bankers and merchants, not magic workers.

In the OP of the OOC thread, roseheart mentions that developing items and equipment (including mechanical ones) is also a responsibility of the Merchant Guild, because somebody has to do that. Perhaps you don't want to make mining machines -- fine (we'll put that to a vote), but otherwise we still need to create some kind of physical objects, not just financial services.

As for our mining machine, I think we should make it so that the probabilities of getting a small chunk, average chunk, etc. are the same as manual mining, but make the machine mine about 12% less, so the average income is 7.67 per turn instead of 8.75. We get a quarter (about 1.92) and the user gets 5.75. This model is assuming that users valuate their ability to do an action at any turn at about 2 gold; we can change it later if we find out that's not quite accurate. What do you think?

We really need a guildmaster so we can get this running -- we need to appoint a Bookkeeper at least, but I can't create that position without being guildmaster.
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Quote from: KittyTac
The closest thing Bay12 has to a flamewar is an argument over philosophy that slowly transitioned to an argument about quantum mechanics.
Quote from: thefriendlyhacker
The trick is to only make predictions semi-seriously.  That way, I don't have a 98% failure rate. I have a 98% sarcasm rate.

Glass

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 01:28:01 pm »

Why not just sell better pickaxes?
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

bloop_bleep

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 01:45:29 pm »

Why not just sell better pickaxes?
Hmm... that's actually not a bad idea. Whereas the Mage's Guild handles the probabilities, we'll handle the amounts. (I suggest 10 gold for a 20% increase in efficiency.) Though I do want to get some basis in mechanics founded, so we can start making more complicated machines. We could just sell both; I don't see anything wrong with that.

We need some way of deciding how effective our items and equipment will be. Doing an Arms Race roll is a possible solution. Any other suggestions?
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Quote from: KittyTac
The closest thing Bay12 has to a flamewar is an argument over philosophy that slowly transitioned to an argument about quantum mechanics.
Quote from: thefriendlyhacker
The trick is to only make predictions semi-seriously.  That way, I don't have a 98% failure rate. I have a 98% sarcasm rate.

RoseHeart

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 02:37:15 pm »

Yes.. in regards to their spell, but let me be clear, the minning table belongs to us.



Speaking now as a Ranger, the Ranger's guild would benefit from the pickaxe. That gives us wood and metal resources to proliferate in the wild.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 03:03:20 pm by roseheart »
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. -Robert Caro

RoseHeart

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2018, 04:54:32 pm »

Election ends Feb 24!

Maximum Spin / 1 / Maximum Spin
UristMcChladni / 1 / UristMcChladni
bloop_bleep / 1 / bloop_bleep
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. -Robert Caro

Thanatos Russ

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Re: Merchant Guild HQ
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2018, 06:43:26 pm »

heh I am gonna vote for maxispin

I joined all the guilds because not really sure what my focus will be, still idly wondering.
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