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[Urist McScoopbeard]

So I only have one week left and then I'm done with my LA experience, and my college career. I'm going to try and articulate my feelings about it... mostly for me, but if anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it. Here goes:

Pros:
- Office experience with both a healthy and unhealthy working environment.
- Got to explore LA a little bit.
- Had a lot of great (and a few not so good) speakers talk to me/us.
- Got to visit big time production companies and studio lots.
- Beer!
- Despite my misgivings, did actually learn quite a bit about writing--through osmosis, perhaps, or just having time to think about storytelling.

Cons:
- Didn't do any networking. A combination of legitimately not having time, not really trying, and getting blown off when things could have happened.
- Hated working here. Already knew I didn't want to work in an office, but this... this was a whole new level of soul-crushing.
- Didn't actually write anything. Started writing a spec script at the beginning of the semester, but the whole first internship business and ongoing difficulties has really left a sour taste in my mouth.
- In hindsight: dysfunctional roommates. We're friendly, and have been friendly, but there's a layer of tension that makes being in my room (which is most of the time; explained below) not so fun. I recant. Sometimes that way, but sometimes, there's some real brotherhood vibes.
- Didn't go many places. It kind of blows because you can't walk anywhere. I gained a lot of weight for a while because my whole lifestyle changed for the worst.

The results:
I don't know. I think I hate LA. People keep saying that it's just my specific unlucky perfect-storm scenario, but... every time I go somewhere new or do anything fun, something is there to piss me off or depress me or it seems like I do something wrong. The entertainment industry is truly bad, though we all already knew that, and I'm just not sure how to proceed with my career plans. Roomies were bleh, and I found it difficult to make friends out here, when I met anyone at all. Work people are work people, but the whole fake people stereotype is kinda real and more subtle and insidious than I ever could have imagined. Shit's depressing, yo.

Do I still love writing? I think so... I haven't pen to paper in maybe two months though. It's as if my inspiration has left me at times. I love worldbuilding and telling stories and writing is a big part of that. It really seems like that's just the first step though... everybody who's anybody is multitalented, and I've always been Mr. One-Track-Mind over here. I'm best at writing , and while I can do a little drawing, editing, and directing... I just feel like I really lack the skillset to go down the path that I always envisioned for myself.

On the flip side, I've also realized I need to just go with the flow when it comes to career so that I can make money and maybe better pursue these dreams. I do refuse to work in an office though, even technical work, I'm just... not cut out for the politics and the pacing, and 5 days a week, fixed schedule, do what you're told deal... sure, I can go through the motions, but my heart's just not in it. I don't care, and when I don't care, I don't try. Maybe a not so good trait, but my discipline barely held it together for 3 months. Writing is different. I understand it. I feel competent when write, even when it doesn't work out it feels like I've learned something instead of just fucking up.

So what do to now? IDK. Personally, I think my best bet would be to find a job I can get fairly excited about/stomach and spend a few years writing for competition entry and just gitting gud. At least I feel like every day is still a new crossroads. I can definitely apply my experience to get a better job my next time around. Even if that just means a better resume and cover letter. I... am dreading to have to talk to my whole family who is coming to see me graduate about all this. No doubt the village will have a sea of questions for the only kid in the family to try and go to LA.

Still not REALLY sure how to play things. I get the distinct feeling that no matter what happens, me being an assistant is probably not a good idea going forward. Have kind of been putting off looking for jobs back home. Uh. Not sure where to start (not there's a HUGE rush).

[Retropunch]

I do refuse to work in an office though, even technical work, I'm just... not cut out for the politics and the pacing, and 5 days a week, fixed schedule, do what you're told deal... sure, I can go through the motions, but my heart's just not in it

We've tried to say it a few times, but here it goes again: no one enjoys that. You're acting like everyone loves going into an office and working 5 days a week etc. etc. other than you, or that somehow you feel different to everyone else - they don't love it, and they feel the same. Sure, some people can deal with it better than others, but unless you're that 0.00000001% who manages to hit it big with a big screenplay/book early on, you're probably going to end up working in an office/having someone tell you what to do with a fixed schedule for some period of time.

The people that don't do that, just fail at life. There are exceptions if you want to do something completely different like make artisan pottery on a farm or something, but if you want to succeed generally you'll need to put up with it for a while, and the quicker you accept that the better. This doesn't mean your dreams should die or anything like that, just that you need to be realistic or you'll end up in your mid-30s wondering why you don't have any money, skills or career.

I've seen it happen, and it's not to do with 'giving up' or becoming an office drone or anything, it's just that the world runs on people in offices working to fixed schedules with some sort of order/hierarchy. The way to not become an office drone however, is that you need to put equal work into what you actually DO want to do long term.

So my advice would be to have two plans - a 'career' plan and a 'writing' plan. Your career plan is what you're going to do that you can enjoy, gain skills, build something with and which pays the bills. The writing plan is how you're going to become the next Stephen King. Put equal effort into both and plan out your next steps with what you NEED (not what you like/dislike). Maybe you need to find a job that's 4 days a week so you have more time for writing, maybe you need to put together some sort of actual portfolio doing copy for advertisements and local news or something. Maybe you want to continue at college but do game design, or maybe something completely different.

Just for the love of everything good and holy, don't think 'writing is all I'm good at, so I will do that and ignore everything else' - you'll be broke and having to take the first job that comes along in no time. Spoiler; it'll be the worst office drone job imaginable. That or you'll be living in your parents basement till you're 40.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Ah, I suppose it depends on the work, but it really has eaten away at me. I'm not claiming it's impossible or even difficult AT ALL, but as soon as I start loathing heading into work... well, it's a quick route out the door from there--and that's not sustainable. I don't think I'm gonna strike it big right away or anything--I'm really just not good enough for that--but I would rather be working as a carpenter or some such than general administrative duties. I'm heading home to figure things out in the career department now, nothing is set in stone.

I'm trying to be realistic, but when you enjoy working at CVS more than answering phones on the front desk and filling out paperwork... it's kind of hard to dive back in to that kind of environment with enthusiasm. Let me be clear. I certainly do not think that I will be able to support myself writing for next several (and beyond) years to come. I am acutely aware that I need a job--I would like it to be anything but cubicle work. I think my view has been pretty negatively colored by a few specific instances, so I am aware that I'm not Mr. Experience over here, but I'm sticking with my guns in my view that working in an office is going to drain me.

Just for the love of everything good and holy, don't think 'writing is all I'm good at, so I will do that and ignore everything else' - you'll be broke and having to take the first job that comes along in no time. Spoiler; it'll be the worst office drone job imaginable. That or you'll be living in your parents basement till you're 40.

Well, this is what happened to me THIS time round--I got cocky and ended up with a shit experience. So, yea, obviously I would like to avoid it again--but I'd rather be working as a bartender or warehouse worker than in an office. To be frank, I really don't know WHAT I'm going to do. It's a real possibility that I will have to get another office job, but if I can avoid it I will. Am I good at things other than writing? Yes, but since high school I've been pretty self-deprecating (as a coping mechanism, woohoo) so I really don't know WHAT my forte is (Although for sure, while I'm a competent communicator and occasional planner, I'm much more skilled creatively than anywhere else). I was pursuing some leads to jobs that were legitimately interesting to me, but it all kind of fell through. I really dread going the route of the assistant--I know I just won't be able to be the superstar employee, something's always gone be niggling me in the back of my brain. I'm just trying to to figure it out over here--I could cite a hundred different reasons that make me a bad office employee, but honestly, I just don't want that for my life. If it means making shit money, then so be it--I just want to have a sustainable base for a few years while I write on the side.

EDIT: A big part of this is that I'm not super competent in the average office. If I was, it'd be a different story--if I stumble upon something that isn't my dream, but I'm good at, of course I'm going to do that to pay the bills. I know that to a lot of people it's basic shit, but I just can't cope. And it's not like I haven't gotten better at office skills over the years, I just can't keep it together when I get into a funk or get bored or whatever--as much as I try.

I don't know if that's your definition of age 30 and penniless, but I'm just as worried about being miserable at age 30 and having exponentially more responsibilities that stop me from actually pursuing the career I want then.

I feel a certain way, and it's pretty hard for me to separate myself logically from that gut feeling, but I recognize that often times I can be a pretty unreasonable fellow, but at the very least I'd like to think I'm self aware. There's been plenty of times where I just try to put my head down and do the conventional thing, but that usually doesn't work out so well, so I play a game with myself where I just try to find the thing I know that I can get behind to set myself up for success. It usually means that I'm sacrificing money or other opportunities, but at least I usually find something I can sustain. That's what I'm trying to do here. I know I'm pigeonholing myself, but if I just do the conventional thing and put myself in the system (so to speak) I know I'm going to be unhappy and having this same exact conversation 10 years from now, so instead I'll try and sacrifice something so that  I can remain motivated to do whatever it is that keeps me in the black.

Does that make any sense at all or just insane ramblings? In conclusion, I'm NOT going to discount the conventional thing--I know that's how it works for most people--but I also know that I'm a whiny bitch, and I'll just end up being a problem employee for the next decade or so, which doesn't help anybody. I'm not proud of that or anything, I wish I had a little more discipline, but at least I KNOW I don't and can try to plan around it.

EDIT2: And as always, I do really appreciate it whenever I get advice here. I know I can be a broken record sometimes, but you guys have really helped me out. So thank you. A lot.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Ello poppets.

So I calmed down (for real this time) and took a couple of months to think things over and make a decision about what direction to take my life in. First things first, I'm going back to school. After really taking a critical eye to my collegiate career, I just honestly didn't do that much. Some of it was from complacency/cockiness, some from ADHD/Anxiety, and the rest from being a kid who had zero frame of reference for what hard work means and the kind of actual dedication that is required to make it in any career. If you were to look at my current resume, you might go "well that's an okay resume." but that's just it. In a professional creative setting, "okay" isn't anywhere close to good enough, you've got to win some awards and network your butt off to just have a shot at a legitimate job.

This knowledge that I could have done a lot better for myself coupled with the fact that there is a dearth of big boy jobs that I'm qualified for in my area (that might have allowed me to chill for a year or two, make some money, and then reexamine things later) is really what drove this decision to go back to school. The second thing to know is that I'm staying creative. I just really can't imagine myself doing anything else, and if that means a whole lot of hard work and growing pains, well I guess that's what's got to happen.

There were a lot of directions I could go in, and initially I was quite scarred from my LA experience, but I took a look at that too and realized I really created 90% of those problems for myself, and just couldn't stop digging my own grave. So, without taking you through the long selection process, my family, friends, and I really whittled things down to two choices/majors/fields of interest:

-- Sequential Art/Animation

-- Screenwriting/Creative Writing

Drawing and Writing weren't the only two things I was/do show aptitude in, but they sure are the most tangible and marketable. Not that I'm incredible at either, hence the more schooling. Well do to my circumstances, and off-the-wall behavior of the past several months, I really only had the wherewithal and persuasive ability to make a serious go at two institutions: SCAD, and LMU.

Now, ironically, these are both schools I had applied to FOREVER ago, and didn't hear from until last minute for different reasons. For now, let's just say I was under the persuasion that LMU was a lost cause and SCAD was my only real option. I'm here in Atlanta to tour SCAD before I am unable to pull out at all (just in case), literally only four days away from having to pay tuition, and who do I get a phone call but from LMU's Director of Graduate Admissions who tells me that she was so moved by my letter of continuing interest that she had a spot opened up for me in the otherwise full Writing and Producing for Television program and that all I had to do was let her know by (this coming) Monday whether or not I wanted to attend.

So now, I am stuck. Both schools present big, expensive opportunities to stay in the field of storytelling, but with wildly different career paths. I honestly can't decide which I'd rather do more. Here's a short comparison, followed by a few more thoughts:

SCAD (Savannah College of Art and Design)
BFA in Sequential Art (or possibly Animation if I level up my foundational art skills enough)
~$150k in total cost
3-3.5 years
Atlanta Campus

LMU (Loyola Marymount University)
MFA in Writing and Producing for Television
~$99k in total cost (with TA opportunities)
3 years
Los Angeles Campus

Thoughts on SCAD: Pricey, and I feel like I didn't earn my acceptance with an admittedly lackluster portfolio, but my advisor did (indirectly) assure me that I was on the more-desirable side of applicants. After touring SCAD Atlanta and my apartment building next door all I can say is "damn". It is pretty awesome, everyone I've met has been really nice, and Midtown in general is pretty great. The obvious downside here is that I'm starting from "scratch" (at in the least in the sense that I'm not exactly going to be better than any of my peers at drawing) and I'm only going to earn a BFA. The flip hand of that is that, if I do things right, and make a lot of good finished and portfolio work, it doesn't matter if I have a BFA, MFA, or I'm a homeless hipster with a drawing tablet. When I've asked others opinions, they said that they haven't heard me talk as much about drawing and that I usually am more focused storytelling in general--BUT, the whole reason I wanted to do SEQA in the first place is that it combined storytelling with a more tangible skill to create a finished product (potentially all on your own). Also, like getting better at anything, it just takes a lot MORE time to produce quality work before you become competent, and after shaking a lot of the rust off over the past 2-3 months, I feel like I know what is in store in my journey to becoming a visual artist. Plus hey, who doesn't want to make webcomics and such?

Thoughts on LMU: The OG dream, to write and produce a television show. I have a lot of friends back in LA, and several going to LMU. I would love to also get that TA experience, and would probably rather teach as an adjunct professor or high school teacher as my day job than do something like say... work at Ralph's or some shitty no-name production company and write when I get home from a miserable day of work. The obvious downside here is that this is focused a bit more on getting prepared for academia, and obviously, I don't exactly have enough experience to be able to get on any kind of tenure track--especially for a teaching field that is almost 100% dominated by published semi-retired professionals, also having an MFA doesn't actually get me any further ahead in my writing career. It could be a great way to get back into writing, experience LA the RIGHT way without crying like a little bitch through it all, and make some serious connections. All while still seeing my friends. I would also be earning an MFA which would at least qualify me to teach in some way--and despite the inherent difficulties involved, I also really enjoy the prospect of teaching, critiquing, and being surrounded by developing storytelling in a professional setting. It would definitely encourage me to keep up my own writing.

Neutral thoughts: I've done some work with my therapist and have really been preparing myself emotionally and mentally for either of these opportunities. For me, it really is split right down the middle, I can see myself succeeding down both paths. What's really got me worried is if I can't keep up the energy and drive to bring not only my A game to my assigned work, but also be constantly developing my own projects and aggressively networking for three years. I've been scheduling myself better, working on my work habits, OCD and anxious tendencies, and will possibly have a prescription for ADHD meds sometime before school starts--but STILL, I am worried that I will either burn out and really be in a bad way or just let lethargy get the best of me.

EDIT: Advice on how to decide? Or perhaps which is the better opportunity?

[nenjin]

I'll admit I've just skimmed but...do not assume that LMU will actually be cheaper than SCAD. While the upfront price is obviously different, consider the widely different cost of living in Atlanta versus Los Angeles. If you need to downgrade housing in Atlanta for some reason, you can afford a dive if need be. That will be financially more difficult in LA. Food, transportation, services....I believe will all cost you more in LA than Hotlanta.

Also consider the cultures of both places and which one you think you can handle. The South IMO will be easier to get along in despite....being the South. LA will have a much different culture.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Those are two really good points, and honestly after having just stepped into Atlanta, it's hard not to like the city. I'm definitely still leaning towards SCAD after my initial excitement about getting off LMUs waitlist.

[Retropunch]

Every time I see the costs of American uni's posted I start to have heart palpitations (my entire BA and separate MA at two major EU universities cost less than $10,000 together (that's not missing any zeroes)). That's a lot of money, and you need to view that in a long term perspective - you'll be paying it off a long, long time. All I mean by that is that if you're just doing it because 'it could be a great way to get back into writing, experience LA the RIGHT way without crying like a little bitch through it all, and make some serious connections. All while still seeing my friends' then you're doing it for 100% the wrong reasons. You can do that all without spending $100,000 and undertaking a big course.

That's not trying to scare you off - but if you do want to go back to study, I'd do whatever gives you better job prospects or has skills which are more widely required. It sounds like the writing one, and from all your past posts that's what you've seemed most passionate about. If you want to keep up the art side of it, I'm sure you can find evening classes etc.

The whole thing is, do you NEED any of these courses to get where you want to be? If you could spend two years solidly producing work for papers, books, producers etc. would it get you further forward? I don't know a lot about the arts, but I do know that it's about content rather than qualifications - if you believe the courses will provide something you need then great, if you don't then use that 100k to go live in Peru till you've written your best seller.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Heya,

Well I decided on SCAD in the end. Screenwriting and just creative writing in general are tough businesses to be in. Especially as JUST a writer. I really thought about it, and despite wanting to do both, SCAD is just the better opportunity. I don't really see any kind of future for myself in screenwriting, as the open-ended and often freelance nature of a screenwriting career is probably just too wide open for me to really manage.

EDIT: and the possibility of entering academia is like telling your 8yr-old they can be president someday if they want to.

SCAD is the pricier of the two options, and yes, it makes me flinch a bit too, but it's for a more marketable/skill I don't have fully developed, it's in a better place (IMO), and I can still strive to be a professional storyteller someday. From pretty much every angle except cost, it's the better opportunity.

(and speaking of pricy institution vs self-learning, I will be lucky to come out without any loan debt [which is not to say this isn't a burden on my family, but we have discussed it thoroughly and everyone is on board], and I really need the structure of a learning institution. I have certainly excelled at things on my own before, but having had mentors who have brought my writing game to the next level, I feel it's really important to not learn in a vacuum. Especially now that it's more professional development than college-experience.)

[Doomblade187]

Woo hoo!
Welcome to Atlanta!

Okay, so you're going to SCAD. If you want to do off campus, I recommend living in Home Park or Uhouse. Both are very different price points, both are good places to live, both are different experiences. Do NOT go to 100 midtown, they are trash. Literally, their trash room stinks up two entire floors. Also they're overpriced, so if you want to go apartment building, you can go for uhouse or one of the neighbors. Home park should have housing for 600/month for a room, not including utilities.

I am very willing to chat up if you want to talk Atlanta and studenting, and I actually have a friend studying medical ilustration over in UGA. So if you want art buddies, he may be willing? I don't know him very well.

EDIT: you already have housing, excellent.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Thanks for the welcome!

I DO have housing, but it is very pricey. Whether or not I move to a still-reasonable-distance-away for much less depends on how my first year goes. If I can stay focused and am killing it in my classes/get a big boy internship I might move, but for now I'm trying to be as close to classes as possible.

I will probably stay off campus all three years.

EDIT: I don't really know what to ask about studenting. I'm just trying to keep my head down and work work work--it's all about self improvement here.

[Yami]

Okay, I've some advice on the aspects of studenting, and prepping for the after student world.

Think about the jobs you want.  -- Sequential Art/Animation  -- Screenwriting/Creative Writing, right?  Then call a company who does this, and ask what they'd want on your resume.  Seriously, call a company you'd love to work for and ask what it'd take.  Thier HR department will know more about getting in than anyone else.  Think about it, you'll be spending alotta time and money to get into the business, so make sure to do it right.  All it takes is time, and it'll let you tailor your studies for the best possible chance.

I know plenty of people who graduated with Computer science degrees who had to go to graduate school to get a Programming job.  Only friend I have who didn't straight up called Microsoft and asked what school they higher most of their programmers from and what it'd take to get in.  He graduated, called Microsoft back and had a job.

Don't just go to school and hope for the best.  Do yourself a favour and do some prep work.

~Yami

[Urist McScoopbeard]

That is very good advice. I've generally been trying to set goals for myself and do my best to learn about what I'm getting into--but the next step, which is networking, will definitely involve some exploratory phone calls!

[nenjin]

Dont get discouraged if you get blown off by HR though. Some companies are willing to spend a few minutes doing that outreach, some will just be like "Pffftttt." The graciousness of a company's HR department can tell you a lot about their culture.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Dont get discouraged if you get blown off by HR though. Some companies are willing to spend a few minutes doing that outreach, some will just be like "Pffftttt." The graciousness of a company's HR department can tell you a lot about their culture.

At this point, I've actually had a good amount of experience with calling companies, interviewing, etc.

I can't lie, it can be pretty discouraging--just look back at the panic I was in earlier in this thread. I've learned to play it a bit calmer and just kind hear was people have to say. I haven't called anyone yet, but I'll definitely roll with the punches when I put some feelers out there.

[Retropunch]

I'd really recommend getting a strong portfolio together before you start making calls/networking. If they ARE interested, you need to have something to show them rather than 'oh yeah I'll do some great stuff...soon'.

Also, these days I get approached quite a lot by people 'networking' who just sort of say 'hi I'm a person who's interested in the area - help me out' and I'm really, really not a fan. I know it's the American way to some extent, but try to think of ways to actively get involved and present some actual value to the people you're talking to rather than just 'reaching out' to people. As an example, find a few writers for whatever game/show you like and send them a (really) short story involving one of their characters - one of my writer friends had someone write them a short story of one of the super minor characters in their book and they absolutely loved it. Doesn't need to be anything major, but show you're actually committed to whatever it is.

Everyone is busy and no one needs 'ideas' people or 'go-getters' - they need people with skills and experience who can actually apply it to something useful.