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[Retropunch]

Really, really recommend against online degrees - I'm sure one day they'll be viable, but at the moment they'll just leave you getting completely passed over for everything.

I'm almost positive you'll be able to shave some time off - it'll take a bit of negotiation and you might have to make a few compromises but they'll usually sort something out. That being said, if you finish your undergrad can't you just go and do a masters in game design? You might have to do a bit of work to prove you can handle it but they're usually a hell of a lot more accommodating for post grad courses.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I definitely would not mind just doing a Master's in game design, but I am still worried about my programming skills. That's really what we're talking about here, what's the best way to gain some programming literacy/experience (when I have none) before I go for a Master's.

Alternatively, finding a good program that also teaches you programming from the ground up.

[Retropunch]

If you're just worried about getting the programming skills then just do free online courses and seriously apply yourself to learning. Get a solid basis in Python, then do some MOOC foundation courses on Computer Science (these will be HARD but well worth it - trust me), and then follow that up with a hell of a lot of C. Be aware - this route is difficult, and you're looking at a few years of self driven learning to get properly to the stage you need to be at.

As far as first steps/languages - python isn't necessarily used widely in games (although EVE (one of the most complex games ever) runs off Python interestingly enough) but it's a very solid base in programming, easy to learn and you'll never, ever get stuck as you can just ask the internet and 1000 people will jump to your aid (and tell you at great length how amazing python is whilst they're at it).

If you're interested in roguelikes then try the python+libtcod roguelike tutorial after doing some basic python courses - that takes you through making basically an entire game whilst learning all of the 'basics' of python. From that, develop a few little apps that do stuff you find useful and post them on github.

It's worth noting though that you'll need to transfer to C/C++ or similar to be really competitive in game dev as nearly all the major tools use those. There are loads of qualifications (official M$ ones as well as others) which will be widely recognised, but you'll need a very good knowledge to get through.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Danke Schon.

Do you think it would be a good idea to pursue a game design/development Master's and teach myself programming concurrently?

[Retropunch]

Danke Schon.

Do you think it would be a good idea to pursue a game design/development Master's and teach myself programming concurrently?

Definitely. You can get the basic foundations of programming and compsci you need in a few weeks of consistent learning (do 3 hours a night - no excuses) and then really push through when you start your masters. Just make sure you know the skills your Masters expects.

I'd really shop around to make sure you get the right Masters for you - don't be shy about asking things like what their alumni have gone on to do/where they work, ask if you can speak to a few etc. For a post grad course they know you need to be engaged and that you're serious, so they don't mind you being a bit more probing in your questions etc. Again, be really careful of anywhere that just does Unity - many big studios use it, but just knowing Unity won't be enough.

You'd also really want to come out with some sort of portfolio as well by the end of it - it doesn't need to be anything major, I know a guy who got hired after just writing a simple (but brilliantly executed text adventure) and another that was basically a spot the difference puzzle game but with their art as the backgrounds.

[Doomblade187]

Related note: If you keep an eye on creative projects/other games you may find some open source things you've interested in.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Update for those interested: I've really delved into Python and with the help of Codeacademy am actually more literate than I ever have been before in a programming language. (If anyone has kept abreast of the programming thread I actually got the "rough draft" of an ascii map generator working pretty well) So that's a start!

My interview with aforementioned alumni has been pushed off, so not really banking on any sort of job offer. But now that I've settled in and it's been a little over two months, LA is definitely not for me. If anything, it's finally made me realize just how long I've been away from home and the Northeast. If I can swing it, I think I may just try to shave some time off another bachelors or combined bs/ms degree after all--back East for sure. Teaching myself programming has been surprisingly productive, but I think I really need some time to fully educate myself, gain experience, build a new portfolio, etc. etc. and honestly just be closer to home.

As far jobs go, I'm a bit in limbo. Definitely not getting another tv internship. Don't think it's really possible to get anything in the video game industry right now. And not sure of the opportunities back home. But I know I can't keep doing what I'm doing, I can only stomach getting people's dry cleaning for so long. So maybe back to school IS the right option for me.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Ah, so... the gentleman who I am supposed to interview with keeps pushing the interview off... it's happened multiple times now. I'm not sure whether to continue my persistence or just cross it off the opportunity list.

Also update, looking fairly certain I'll have a choice of Drexel, RIT, Full Sail, Nova Southeastern (possibly among others) for going back to school/getting my masters.

[Retropunch]

Great that you've got into Python and it's all going well! Just make sure you learn the 'boring' theory stuff too - it's the difference between being a programmer and a script kiddie.

Ah, so... the gentleman who I am supposed to interview with keeps pushing the interview off... it's happened multiple times now. I'm not sure whether to continue my persistence or just cross it off the opportunity list.

Keep pursuing it - you've got nothing to lose. The issue is, that you're probably not top of his priority list - he knows you're not going to be swamped with offers/etc. so there's no rush from his perspective. Definitely don't try to hurry him or anything like that, but maybe you can try to pin him down - say you're in the area in two weeks time, could you pop into the office one lunch time to have a quick chat to find out more about the job? Prefix it with all sorts of 'I know you're really busy' etc. etc.

The main thing is to work out if it's a legit offer or if it's just him potentially wanting a bit of slave labour when he gets round to it.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

So some people close to me raised a good point, what if I pursue this game development or computer science degree and find out I also hate that? I feel like I'm up a creek without a paddle here... the last thing I want to do is jump into something else and waste a lot of time money, but I don't think there's really a way for me to gain any experience when I basically have NO skills. Screenwriting is my only skill, and... honestly, it's only college good. Is there some way to maybe "test out" the industry before committing to this career change?

Internships? I feel like they are always wildly competitive and without any marketable skills I don't see myself really being able to get one.

Entry level jobs? QA testers are the only one I can think of but from what I hear these positions are not only awful, but unlike the rest of the game development process?

EDIT: I am freaking the fuck out right now. I legit have no skills, a useless degree, and the only career opportunity that I can see right now is becoming a producer by toughing it out in the entertainment industry (which... sounds just awful.) I feel incredibly isolated, that I have wasted four years of my life, and that I am about to enter (a specific sector of) an industry which I have no desire to work in whatsoever. I don't know what to do. I have this horrible feeling that I am jumping into another three years of time-wasting if I go back to school. Fuck me.

EDIT2: *sigh* Depression incoming. I feel like all my hopes and dreams are slowly slipping away from me.

EDIT3: Should I give it the old college try and have one last go at applying to better jobs and internships before I decide to get out of the entertainment industry???

Okay. I don't know why I freaked out so hard. Uh... Everything's good. I'm sticking to the plan.

[Retropunch]

I'm glad you stopped freaking, but realise you'll never know precisely what you want to do and you'll always be wondering if doing X would be better than the thing you're currently doing.

There's a bigger point here though - and this one is important - be careful about specialising too much as you will back yourself into a corner. This is why I've recommended against doing a 'game design' degree - it's too specific, and if you find out you dislike it, you've then got a degree which probably wouldn't be of use elsewhere. A general computer science degree would be just as appreciated by any game design studio (if you produce it along with a portfolio) but if you decide you actually don't want to do game design, it'd still be useful. Specific degrees are only good when you know, 100%, that it's what you want to do for the foreseeable future.

Just be careful.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Ya, I've been applying to places MOSTLY where I'll be getting a Comp Sci degree with a concentration in video game development. Digipen has a kind of a combined approach. BUT, i've limited myself to the more programming-heavy programs.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Right so... after talking to a lot of people, I've realized I've been acting kinda crazy and making knee-jerk reactions. Um... I'm just gonna go home for a while I think. I don't know what I want to do with my life or my career.

[nenjin]

The flip side of being proactive is being manic. You gotta balance making moves against giving things time to play out. Including your own attitudes and feelings.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

The flip side of being proactive is being manic. You gotta balance making moves against giving things time to play out. Including your own attitudes and feelings.

As I have discovered the hard way. I feel a bit confused and empty right now, all things I thought I wanted I don't even know if I like any more and things that I have thought about for years are suddenly at the forefront of my day to day wonderings again. And I still have to find a job :/