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[iceball3]

Hey Toad, forgive if this is a poor place for such a suggestion, but while you're looking and improving the cleaning code, could you put a line or two in to make it so dwarves don't try to clean areas with Restricted Traffic designation? Mainly for those folks who like to decorate their fort with blood paint.

Wait, what about those of us who want clean restricted traffic areas?

I suppose such a case would call for a "don't clean" designation then. Oof!

[lethosor]

Or a standing order of some sort... either way, probably something for the suggestions forum instead of here.

[Urlance Woolsbane]

One thing I noticed about the legends in the live-zombie-leader save I have is that the tower appeared to be doing a lot of attacks before they got to the player, and the leader was generated on one of those attacks (against a forest retreat).  So it might be tricky capturing the live leader being created in the act.

So necromancers are dying in battle and being replaced by mortals, ala lieutenants and generals, but it's not being properly recorded? I'm confused.

It occurs to me that some of trouble here may be to due the unusual entity status of necro towers.They're site-level governments, but lack parent civs and are militarily active.

[PatrikLundell]

One thing I noticed about the legends in the live-zombie-leader save I have is that the tower appeared to be doing a lot of attacks before they got to the player, and the leader was generated on one of those attacks (against a forest retreat).  So it might be tricky capturing the live leader being created in the act.

So necromancers are dying in battle and being replaced by mortals, ala lieutenants and generals, but it's not being properly recorded? I'm confused.

It occurs to me that some of trouble here may be to due the unusual entity status of necro towers.They're site-level governments, but lack parent civs and are militarily active.

My understanding of what Toady said is that the siege code decides it needs a leader when a siege actually happens, and the necros aren't (always?) selected as leaders. In the save Toady got from me the necro left more or less immediately, leaving the leader/handler and the undead to (mis)manage themselves. My experience is that necros tend to leave rapidly, with the only exception being stealthed ones who actually try to sneak in (fleeing when detected, and caught in cages when not).

I think the save Toady needs to investigate that issue further is one where the necro tower(s) is isolated from everyone except the player fortress with a save just before they (frequently) show up, and when they do, they usually have a leader/handler with them. It should probably be before the first siege (from that tower), or at least previous ones should not have included any leader/handler. Not the easiest thing to produce, but might be attempted at the same time as hello/goodbye sieges are attempted to be reproduced.

[martinuzz]

While you are looking at cleaning code, could you check out why a cleaning job isn't cancelled properly when a dwarf is jailed? It'll keep it's 'clean' job while chained, going on way beyond it's bedtime, until it literally collapses from exhaustion. Dwarves in jail with a clean job and a white flashing drowsy arrow are a common sight.

[iceball3]

While you are looking at cleaning code, could you check out why a cleaning job isn't cancelled properly when a dwarf is jailed? It'll keep it's 'clean' job while chained, going on way beyond it's bedtime, until it literally collapses from exhaustion. Dwarves in jail with a clean job and a white flashing drowsy arrow are a common sight.

Best put this on mantis to make reproducibility a little easier too!

[martinuzz]

Heh, that not on Mantis yet? That exists for so long already, couldn't fathom it's not on Mantis already. I don't see how adding it to Mantis would make reproducability easier though.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Heh, that not on Mantis yet? That exists for so long already, couldn't fathom it's not on Mantis already. I don't see how adding it to Mantis would make reproducability easier though.

It'll mean it actually gets looked at, as opposed to not. Which means people actively looking at bugs (including Toady) will know to try to reproduce it. As opposed to not. There is no advantage to not reporting bugs. "Everybody knows" is almost always a delusion.

[martinuzz]

Apparently not, I seem to have already reported it in 2016. Hasn't even been looked at yet, still listed as 'new'.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9646

[Shonai_Dweller]

Apparently not, I seem to have already reported it in 2016. Hasn't even been looked at yet, still listed as 'new'.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9646

Save would probably speed things up a bit. Not simple to reproduce. Needs a fortress with guards for a start.

[martinuzz]

No save, it's just something that happens in every fort, no save needed / works on any save that has a mandating noble and some jail cells.
I guess I could upload my current fort for it. There's no dwarves in prison currently though, you'd still need to try getting some dwarves on cleaning job into prison by exporting some banned goods until you succeed.

EDIT: Added save file to bug report (added note with link to save, not sure how to add save to reported bug otherwise)

[Shonai_Dweller]

No save, it's just something that happens in every fort, no save needed.

"First make a fortress with 50 dwarves a squad of guards and a jail"....that's the point half of the volunteer bug testers move on to the next bug. Just got to wait for the more dedicated ones to take a look.

[martinuzz]

You don't need 50 dwarves and a squad of guards though. Just a baron and a sherrif will do. Do turn off trade good hauling on the sherrif in that scenario though, but that's another bug I reported.
Save: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13472
BTW, sorry. It's not that I don't want to provide saves, it just completely didn't occur to me that a save would be needed to catch this bug. In my head it was just a thing that Toady could fix by lookin at cleaning code and/or jail code and going 'AHA, forgot an argument there' or somesuch.

[PatrikLundell]

Even when you look at the code and realize that "yes, that's where the problem is" you still want to test that it actually does what you think it should do, so you need a save to test the code on. It's only god level programmers that don't need to test their fixes (and 99.99999...% of those who THINK they're god level aren't: they just have inflated egos [and in many cases massively inflated egos]). Also, the time Toady spends on reproducing the background save to test a bug is time not spend on something that's actually productive, so providing good saves for Toady to work with is one of the few ways the community can actually help speed up the DF development.

[martinuzz]

Okay, I'll try to post another save next time I actually have a cleaning dwarf on it's way to prison. It's almost summer, then I should be able to export some banned goods to the humans

EDIT: Success! I added a better save in the bug report notes, with a dwarf with cleaning job being escorted to prison.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9646
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13474