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[Encrtia]

EDIT: Revised Questions:

Edit:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Has anyone ever got Fortress-Level training up to Domesticated? I can't find any information on this.
2) Would someone know the DFHack command to check Civilization level? I checked the DFHack Documentation, but didn't see anything there.
/Edit~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On the hundredth year, Rikkirlor, the Whiskered Tools, sent an expedition into savage lands to secure two goals.

One of the goals was to research & understand any new species, before importing mating couples back to the Mountainhome.

So I've been breeding these Giant Ticks, see... and so much so that we're in fact "Expert" trainers of them now... problem is, they're all born "masterfully" trained, so I can't really train them anymore. You'd think we could wait 'til they revert, but their life span is only 2 years...

1) Has anyone ever bred a species to "Domesticated" level?
2) Would I gain more of an increase to the "Overall Training" score by using a lvl 1 animal trainer to constantly keep re-training them, or my legendary lvl 20?

[Stormfeather]

If you train babies of a species, it'll generally make them tame (and then any further babies from those individuals will continue to be tame.

Also, even if your baby ticks are born masterfully trained, you'll still want to train them to make them tame, and keep them from reverting.

No idea about question 2.

[PatrikLundell]

1. It's supposed to be impossible.
Training knowledge is brought back to the mountainhome with the trade liaison at a very slow rate (something like 1% per year).

You could isolate some of them to get a "wild" population as the parents degrade gradually. Note that this will block any new surface creatures from entering the map as you already have a group. You could then capture those and train them.
2. Don't know. I would get additional groups of critters...

[Stormfeather]

Oh sorry, guess I misunderstood question 1

[Encrtia]

Oh sorry, guess I misunderstood question 1

No worries. You also missed that baby ticks are born adults so can't ever be fully tamed that way. (Species without a "baby" stage, i.e. born adults, can't "grow up to be tame")
What I'm talking about is, if you go into Z -> Enter -> RightArrowKey; you're looking at the "Overall Training" for your civilization.

1. It's supposed to be impossible.
Training knowledge is brought back to the mountainhome with the trade liaison at a very slow rate (something like 1% per year).

You could isolate some of them to get a "wild" population as the parents degrade gradually. Note that this will block any new surface creatures from entering the map as you already have a group. You could then capture those and train them.
2. Don't know. I would get additional groups of critters...

Do you mean reaching "Domesticated" stage? Because in regards to increasing the overall level, it's steadily increased throughout the years at random times during training - hence why I asked here as opposed to rely on the wiki's answer which didn't confirm the results I've seen. Have been avoiding killing them off as they're actually quite uncommon to find, but will probably do that...

[Loci]

What I'm talking about is, if you go into Z -> Enter -> RightArrowKey; you're looking at the "Overall Training" for your civilization.

No, that's overall training levels for your *fortress*. Your civilization's training level (not shown) is increased, at a slow rate, by caravans as mentioned in the wiki. Toady described it thus:

Every tame animal job increases overall fort training points for that animal by 10, and the fort training knowledge levels are attained at 30, 100, 250 and 500 (it zeroes points when it increases level).  War and hunting jobs are also worth 10 points, but a maintenance job is only worth 3.  Looks like training infants is 10 too, though I could have missed some conditional on any of these.  If your fort level is higher than the civ level for a given animal, 10 points of knowledge are transferred with each caravan that gets off the map (so it'd take 88 years worth of caravans to bring the civ all the way up to "expert" I guess, but just 3 years to get every subsequent fort to start at "few facts").  Sounds like the sort of thing that could be sped-up with all the new knowledge/books once we start linking in-game industries to it.  There's also the unexplored matter of why your civ level would be lower than your fort level if your fort is the last one, as opposed to part of a large civilization, and why a trainer migrant coming from an old expert fort would lose knowledge.

The fort level of knowledge has a strong effect on in-fort training.  If you know nothing about the animal, the animal training roll must be 30 to get past semi-wild and 100 to be masterfully trained (with 40/50/65/80 for the others).  "Few facts": 20/30/40/60/70/90.  "Familiar": 15/20/30/50/60/80.  "Knowledgeable": 10/15/25/40/50/70.  "Expert": 5/10/20/30/40/60.  The calculations for skill rolls are complicated, but by these numbers, your trainers are almost twice as good at expert-level fort knowledge, if they weren't already great trainers in their own right (in which case they'll probably crack 100 most times without help).

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg6583653#msg6583653

[PatrikLundell]

Yes. I meant reaching the Domesticated level is supposed to be impossible. My longest lasting fortress was something like 78 years, most of the time spent training one species despite reaching he maximum without reaching Domesticated (it took a few years to get the critters, whatever they were).

[Encrtia]

What I'm talking about is, if you go into Z -> Enter -> RightArrowKey; you're looking at the "Overall Training" for your civilization.

No, that's overall training levels for your *fortress*. Your civilization's training level (not shown) is increased, at a slow rate, by caravans as mentioned in the wiki. Toady described it thus:

Every tame animal job increases overall fort training points for that animal by 10, and the fort training knowledge levels are attained at 30, 100, 250 and 500 (it zeroes points when it increases level).  War and hunting jobs are also worth 10 points, but a maintenance job is only worth 3.  Looks like training infants is 10 too, though I could have missed some conditional on any of these.  If your fort level is higher than the civ level for a given animal, 10 points of knowledge are transferred with each caravan that gets off the map (so it'd take 88 years worth of caravans to bring the civ all the way up to "expert" I guess, but just 3 years to get every subsequent fort to start at "few facts").  Sounds like the sort of thing that could be sped-up with all the new knowledge/books once we start linking in-game industries to it.  There's also the unexplored matter of why your civ level would be lower than your fort level if your fort is the last one, as opposed to part of a large civilization, and why a trainer migrant coming from an old expert fort would lose knowledge.

The fort level of knowledge has a strong effect on in-fort training.  If you know nothing about the animal, the animal training roll must be 30 to get past semi-wild and 100 to be masterfully trained (with 40/50/65/80 for the others).  "Few facts": 20/30/40/60/70/90.  "Familiar": 15/20/30/50/60/80.  "Knowledgeable": 10/15/25/40/50/70.  "Expert": 5/10/20/30/40/60.  The calculations for skill rolls are complicated, but by these numbers, your trainers are almost twice as good at expert-level fort knowledge, if they weren't already great trainers in their own right (in which case they'll probably crack 100 most times without help).

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg6583653#msg6583653

Ta, very confusing business, splendid clarification. So where do I see this "civilization level" of a species? Never seen that screen. Had to assume it was the previously outlined screen.

Yes. I meant reaching the Domesticated level is supposed to be impossible. My longest lasting fortress was something like 78 years, most of the time spent training one species despite reaching he maximum without reaching Domesticated (it took a few years to get the critters, whatever they were).

Did you get a species to Expert then? What species was it mind you? I've got a new animal trainer on Giant Ticks now, so the Masterfully Trained status has worn off a surprising amount. The amount I've been working with can be around 30 alive at one time, which within 5 years granted my "Local Fortress" Expert status.

[buuface]

Is there a way i can edit the maximum number of surface creatures which can be on the map at a single time?

[PatrikLundell]

As far as I know the only way to access the civ training level is through embarking afresh (in which case you'd see the civ level as your fortress' starting level). You can also retrieve it from the DF data structures with DFHack.

I don't remember the species I trained, but I didn't get Cave Dragons up to expert, but certainly one or more cavern dwelling and/or surface ones (probably one of the thieving monkeys, as they have a tendency invade your fortress' cage traps again and again in fairly large numbers).

Savage biomes allow two groups of creatures at the same time for each level (i.e. surface and each cavern. I don't know if there can be two magma sea groups but the HFS rules are

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

a single group, regardless of savagery

), while non savage ones only allow one. Note that this is on an embark level, so multiple biomes at the embark still results in one or two groups.
Each species has controls for how large groups they come in, defined in the raws.
As far as I know that's the extent to which you can control the number of critters.

[Encrtia]

So summing up. There's a lot of confusion here about what Domesticated refers to. I'm not talking about Civilization-Level training, but Fortress-Level training governed by, z -> enter -> right-arrow. I didn't mention Civilization-Level, & as the only screen I saw was Fortress-Level, up until now had assumed both were the same, especially since there's practically no information on this Fortress-Level Overall Training. So, I'm left with 2 questions:

1) Has anyone ever got Fortress-Level training up to Domesticated? I can't find any information on this.
2) Would someone know the DFHack command to check Civilization level? I checked the DFHack Documentation, but didn't see anything there.

As far as I know the only way to access the civ training level is through embarking afresh (in which case you'd see the civ level as your fortress' starting level). You can also retrieve it from the DF data structures with DFHack.

I don't remember the species I trained, but I didn't get Cave Dragons up to expert, but certainly one or more cavern dwelling and/or surface ones (probably one of the thieving monkeys, as they have a tendency invade your fortress' cage traps again and again in fairly large numbers).

Savage biomes allow two groups of creatures at the same time for each level (i.e. surface and each cavern. I don't know if there can be two magma sea groups but the HFS rules are

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

a single group, regardless of savagery

), while non savage ones only allow one. Note that this is on an embark level, so multiple biomes at the embark still results in one or two groups.
Each species has controls for how large groups they come in, defined in the raws.
As far as I know that's the extent to which you can control the number of critters.

Oh, & can you show me a screenshot of where you can see the civilization training level at embark? Never noticed it... thanks!

[PatrikLundell]

1. Still supposed to be impossible to achieve...
2. There is no such command. You'd have to use gui/gm-editor df.global.world.entities[<your civ>] and dig down to where that's stored. Probably among some kind of resources (the path is from memory, so it might not be entirely correct).
3. The normal z-animal screen where your fortress training level is shown, which is the civ level one immediately after embark.

[Encrtia]

1. Still supposed to be impossible to achieve...
2. There is no such command. You'd have to use gui/gm-editor df.global.world.entities[<your civ>] and dig down to where that's stored. Probably among some kind of resources (the path is from memory, so it might not be entirely correct).
3. The normal z-animal screen where your fortress training level is shown, which is the civ level one immediately after embark.

Immediately after I embark it still shows the Fortress-Training Level, but you said it'd be the Civilization-Training Level if looked at immediately after embarking. I don't get it :S What am I supposed to be looking at? (I just embarked & went into z-animal)

Do you mean if the animal is listed here (seen below), it's Domesticated, but otherwise you can't gauge how much so the non-domesticated animals have been Civilization-Trained?

[PatrikLundell]

No, what I'm trying to say is that the fortress training level starts out THE SAME as the civ level, so when you look at the fortress training level before you have started any local training that info reflects the training level of the civ. This is only if interest for subsequent embarks when the previous embarks have flowed some training back to the civ.

[Encrtia]

No, what I'm trying to say is that the fortress training level starts out THE SAME as the civ level, so when you look at the fortress training level before you have started any local training that info reflects the training level of the civ. This is only if interest for subsequent embarks when the previous embarks have flowed some training back to the civ.

Ah I see, that makes sense. Ta