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[iceball3]

As written in the title, I'm trying to find some manner of ingame workaround to the "dwarves jumping through fortifications" bug. This is caused by dwarves both disregarding fortifications as obstacles for movement when pathing their jumps, as well as actually being able to pass through the things when doing so. Very troublesome.
I know of one strategy currently, the "dwarf catching moat", such that when dwarves jump from their posts through the fortifications, they land into a small courtyard with a short wall with double-floor overhangs to prevent exit and entrance. It is effective in theory, but really, ugly, and a bit limiting, and vulnerable to fliers of all kinds, so I'm trying to find other methods.

My attempts so far:
I have tried testing out both wooden grates and statues. A neat little quirk for both is that they suspend themselves in the air, and are buildings, so potentially may behave differently. My plan was to have a a line of fortifications with a line of grates immediately outside of them. Even if -flying- building destroyers show up, that gives me enough time to reconsider my crossbowdwarf positioning still, so it would be good.
However, when I tested it in adventure mode, it turns out that both wooden grates AND statues do nothing to block jumpers.
Troublesome. I'll keep testing.
Any other ideas from anyone else?

[iceball3]

Update: I've attempted an elevated "roof fortification" action, either with wall grates or floor grates.

Code: [Select]

Z top level
    +++++
    +++++
    +++++
    +++++
    +++++

Code: [Select]

Z -1
    WWWWW
    WGGGW
++++D++GW
    WGGGW
    WWWWW

Code: [Select]

Z -2

     FFF
WWWWWWWF
     FFF
With F being Fortification,
+ being floor,
W being wall,
D being door,
G Being grates or whatever I'm trying to use.
This would lead to a really restricted field of view, with the fortifications overlooking the targets, so the dwarfs could shoot down at them without being able to descend!
Except. Testing indicates that floor grates can't seem to be shot through by those on the same level as them, at least with thrown items.
I tried to use wall grates, except, those can be jumped through, AND those that fall on to un-top-floored fortifications fall straight into the tile, free to escape!
This is driving me nuts! Ack!
Slightly more testing seems to indicate that floor grates are projectile-proof. Cripes.

[anewaname]

Have you attempted to put the statues inward of the walls? This is a three-wall example with stairs down in the middle.
WFFFFFW
++++++F
++SSS+F
+++>S+F
++SSS+F
++++++F
WFFFFFW
I do not know if it will work, but the idea is in the wiki with previous DF versions, Statues may also prove useful in archer emplacements to control where your dwarves normally stand, but still allow them a chance to dodge incoming fire. . The dodge code might choose that statue tile in preference to out-the-window.

[Qrox]

I have never had marksdwarves jump through fortifications myself, most likely due to I build fortifications around towers high above the ground. Anyway, have you tried floor bars? According to the wiki they let ammunitions through, but I don't know if archers can see through them.

[iceball3]

I have never had marksdwarves jump through fortifications myself, most likely due to I build fortifications around towers high above the ground. Anyway, have you tried floor bars? According to the wiki they let ammunitions through, but I don't know if archers can see through them.

I'm testing in adventure mode, it looks like floor bars are transparent, but none of the crossbow bolts will go through them either, it seems.

[angelious]

never really use marksdwarves since they always seem to just run into melee anyway after firing a couple of shots so i got no clue how to help you but...

isnt burrows/double fortifications going to prevent the issue of them jumping over things they shouldnt?

[fearlesslittletoaster]

Build the fortifications two layers thick. They still shoot out and I've never seen a dwarf dodge through two layers.

[Telgin]

I don't think dodging specifically is the problem here, so much as the fact that Toady tweaked or fixed the "acrobatics" code, as he refers to it.  That means that dwarves will now climb out of trees like they're supposed to, but will also realize that if they climb out of towers they can get closer to their targets.  So they then do so.

I read a suggestion in another thread to use only carved fortifications instead of constructed fortifications, since they were treated as full height walls that couldn't be climbed through.  Presumably, if that's true and you put a roof over your dwarves, they wouldn't be able to climb out.  That's only really an option if you're carving them into a mountainside though, I guess, since I don't think you can carve constructed walls.

[jwest23]

You can carve constructed walls.

[Telgin]

Interesting... I'll definitely test that the next time I play and see if it helps to keep marksmen contained in pillboxes.

[MorsDux]

Easiest solution for me was editing the raws to disable dwarf climbing.

[Robsoie]

As i observed, building walls then carving them into fortifications make a really noticable difference in comparison to direct fortification building :
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169042.msg7664198#msg7664198

[Immortal-D]

FYI: Using a double row of fortifications makes Dwarves unable to shoot through it.

[azrael4h]

never really use marksdwarves since they always seem to just run into melee anyway after firing a couple of shots so i got no clue how to help you but...

isnt burrows/double fortifications going to prevent the issue of them jumping over things they shouldnt?

To keep my marksdwarves from becoming snacks, I build firing platforms connected to the main fortress, but above the ground where the elves can't climb through the fortifications themselves. The fortress main is closed to the outside, so that the marksdwarves can't path out to them at all, and they occasionally don't jump through the fortifications to fall, break their legs, and die. The platforms are roofed, so fliers and climbers cannot enter from the top.

Double walls will stop critters passing through them, which is why I make sure all my walls are now two tiles thick at the minimum. But, I don't know for certain that double fortifications can be fired through (conflicting information in this thread alone, and I have to test it myself). So while it should prevent them from jumping to their dooms, that doesn't mean they'll be able to fire down into the elves, making it less than useful.

[iceball3]

As i observed, building walls then carving them into fortifications make a really noticable difference in comparison to direct fortification building :
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169042.msg7664198#msg7664198

Testing in adventure mode seems to indicate that this does not work by physically blocking the dwarves in question, but perhaps preventing them from trying to path through it should work good enough. Thanks!

never really use marksdwarves since they always seem to just run into melee anyway after firing a couple of shots so i got no clue how to help you but...

isnt burrows/double fortifications going to prevent the issue of them jumping over things they shouldnt?

To keep my marksdwarves from becoming snacks, I build firing platforms connected to the main fortress, but above the ground where the elves can't climb through the fortifications themselves. The fortress main is closed to the outside, so that the marksdwarves can't path out to them at all, and they occasionally don't jump through the fortifications to fall, break their legs, and die. The platforms are roofed, so fliers and climbers cannot enter from the top.

Double walls will stop critters passing through them, which is why I make sure all my walls are now two tiles thick at the minimum. But, I don't know for certain that double fortifications can be fired through (conflicting information in this thread alone, and I have to test it myself). So while it should prevent them from jumping to their dooms, that doesn't mean they'll be able to fire down into the elves, making it less than useful.

If a double-thick transparent obstruction is enough to stop them from leaping through, then you could perhaps do something like the "outer layer floating wall grates". Wall grates float in the air even if they lose support from immediately below, so you can build a series of wall grates on top of walls beneath them before the walls are deconstructed.
Perhaps a combination of fortification and wall grate floating outer layer can confound the AI hard enough to stop it from ever considering leaping through. Or something close to that.
I wonder if invaders can destroy wall grates from below, because I'm pretty sure buildings can't be climbed in of themselves.