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Author Topic: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - GAME OVER  (Read 53445 times)

NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #555 on: April 27, 2018, 04:10:31 am »

Ah, but, see what Toskesh has done: one can also make modifications whilst decomplexifying, like adding handles to tanks or bicycles to NMGs. I think we can use a revision to make rocket pods out of the Gin na Tonic, and get them non-complex.

For our design, I think we want something naval. Adding rocket pods to the Tornado will significantly help us on land, so we should focus on the theatre where we are behind.

An acoustic torpedo is one option, which would also give us some experience with guidance systems that can later be applied to a missile. I'm writing up such a design now.


E: Something like this.

NAF-A/PST-54 "Blindman": The Blindman is an Active/Passive Sonar Torpedo designed to be a 'fire and forget' weapon capable of sinking anything Toskesh brings to sea (with the exception of hovercraft). It is 21ft long and has a 21" diameter, weighing in at 2700lb, of which 500 is a high-explosive warhead. It is driven by electrical engines, which propel it to speeds of up to ~35 knots for ranges of up to 8 miles. At least, that's the goal.
The engine is electrical in order to be as silent as possible, since a loud combustion engine would interfere with the guidance system. Aforementioned system consists of two phases. In the first phase, the torpedo travel at less than its top speed (~20 knots, in order to both reduce sound and maximise range), whilst a passive sonar system (which activates after travelling a minimum of 500 yards) scans the area ahead of the torpedo for the sound of engines, which it should be able to detect in a 120° arc at ranges of around half a mile. At this point, the speed is increased to maximum and the active homing is engaged, sending out regular 'pings' and using the reflected sound to track the target, correcting the course of the torpedo until the target is straight ahead. The active sonar system has greater accuracy than a passive system of equivalent complexity would (and is harder to fool), and although it could be detected by hypothetical future sonar systems deployed by Toskesh, the torpedo will at that point be too close to avoid easily.
Both contact and magnetic detonators are included. Operating depth can be set before firing. In order to comply with Article II of the conventions, the torpedo will always detonate after a fixed period of time (calculated to occur once it has reached max range).
Torpedo tubes capable of launching the Blindman will be installed on the Herald and the Red Herring (possibly instead of the Ironcaster).


This is a first draft, no details are fixed. Now, last turn, nobody weighed in on the Tornado, and the end result was not as effective as it could've been (we should've done the three-seater for added firepower, I believe). So please don't assume I've considered every possibility and concluded this is the best option.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 09:52:04 am by NUKE9.13 »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #556 on: April 27, 2018, 05:28:27 am »

I dunno if they managed to fluke a 6 with those revisions, but if you're confident that wasn't the case, then I'll back you.

Do we intend for this to be deployable by helicopter, or is it intended to be a purely ship-launched torpedo?
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #557 on: April 27, 2018, 07:27:31 am »

Ship (and sub) only. It's a lot of extra work to make a torpedo air-droppable, which generally means cutting back on other features.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #558 on: May 03, 2018, 12:59:32 pm »

Quote
Blindman (1)
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stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #559 on: May 03, 2018, 01:02:33 pm »


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Blindman (2) Ebbor, Stabby
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #560 on: May 03, 2018, 01:46:14 pm »

For the record, I expect them to take this to court for violating article II, but I think we can argue it legal by calling it a projectile, and so any 'premature detonation' doesn't count as an art II violation, unless all explosive projectiles fired against moving targets are.

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Blindman (3) Ebbor, Stabby, NUKE9.13
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #561 on: May 03, 2018, 03:23:37 pm »

 Article 2 also mentions "land"mines and booby traps. This is clearly not a landmine, and a booby trap implies improvisation which it also is not.

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Blindman (4) Ebbor, Stabby, NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
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Happerry

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #562 on: May 03, 2018, 06:23:31 pm »

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Blindman (5) Ebbor, Stabby, NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Happerry

Torpedo seems good to me.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #563 on: May 05, 2018, 04:16:28 pm »


NAF-A/PST-54 "Blindman": The Blindman is an Active/Passive Sonar Torpedo designed to be a 'fire and forget' weapon capable of sinking anything Toskesh brings to sea (with the exception of hovercraft). It is 21ft long and has a 21" diameter, weighing in at 2700lb, of which 500 is a high-explosive warhead. It is driven by electrical engines, which propel it to speeds of up to ~35 knots for ranges of up to 8 miles. At least, that's the goal.
The engine is electrical in order to be as silent as possible, since a loud combustion engine would interfere with the guidance system. Aforementioned system consists of two phases. In the first phase, the torpedo travel at less than its top speed (~20 knots, in order to both reduce sound and maximise range), whilst a passive sonar system (which activates after travelling a minimum of 500 yards) scans the area ahead of the torpedo for the sound of engines, which it should be able to detect in a 120° arc at ranges of around half a mile. At this point, the speed is increased to maximum and the active homing is engaged, sending out regular 'pings' and using the reflected sound to track the target, correcting the course of the torpedo until the target is straight ahead. The active sonar system has greater accuracy than a passive system of equivalent complexity would (and is harder to fool), and although it could be detected by hypothetical future sonar systems deployed by Toskesh, the torpedo will at that point be too close to avoid easily.
Both contact and magnetic detonators are included. Operating depth can be set before firing. In order to comply with Article II of the conventions, the torpedo will always detonate after a fixed period of time (calculated to occur once it has reached max range).
Torpedo tubes capable of launching the Blindman will be installed on the Herald and the Red Herring (possibly instead of the Ironcaster).


Impossible Difficulty: 4

The NAF-A/PST-54 "Blindman" is a rather ambitious project to build our first torpedo, along with a sonar system, guidance package, and magnetic detonators, along with a modification to both the Herald and Red Herring.

We develop a torpedo this turn that uses two piezoelectric quartz hydrophones to passively detect noise on either side, as well as a simple guidance package that deflects the rudder towards whichever side has the higher sound level.  This detection system engages after 500 yards and will steer the torpedo towards any noise-generating device in the water.  The electrical engines are rather under powered, but will allow it to catch up to any ship Toskesh is currently fielding - albeit very slowly if they're moving directly away.   Running out of fuel before catching the target is a very real possibility. 

We modify the Herring to carry two tubes on either side, and develop an optional three-tube turret that can replace a gun on the Herald.  The planned magnetic detonator was not developed in time, nor was the two-phase guidance system or the active sonar component.  The Blindman seems to perform satisfactory in tests, if not to the exact standards of the initial design. A timer detonates the torpedo after a fixed period of time.  [No Cost]

Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #564 on: May 05, 2018, 05:20:18 pm »

For an impossible design, that's not too bad. I suggest we throw a revision at it to bring it into line with the original specifications.
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Happerry

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #565 on: May 05, 2018, 06:39:44 pm »

We still need rocket pods for our attack helicopters though, and those would probably be more immediately useful.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #566 on: May 06, 2018, 02:51:22 am »

Rocketpods. Pick one.

NAF-RLP-54 "Bartender 19": The Gin na Tonic is a fine piece of theftsmanship, but there's something to be said for home-made stuff. Hence we have created the Bartender Rocket Launcher Pod: rockets, quite similar to those used in the Gin na Tonic- slightly smaller diameter, 2.75" instead of 3.15"-, loaded into a pod of nineteen (arranged hexagonally)- launched one at a time, of course. These pods may be mounted on Tornado hardpoints (for a maximum of 114 rockets per copter), or can be attached to other vehicles, such as our tank walkers and ships, where they may be used as rudimentary AA or backup weapons.

NAF-RLP-54 "Bartender 7": The Gin na Tonic is a fine piece of theftsmanship, but there's something to be said for home-made stuff. Hence we have created the Bartender Rocket Launcher Pod: rockets, identical to those used in the Gin na Tonic, loaded into a pod of seven (arranged hexagonally)- launched one at a time, of course. These pods may be mounted on Tornado hardpoints (for a maximum of 42 rockets per copter), or can be attached to other vehicles, such as our tank walkers and ships, where they may be used as rudimentary AA or backup weapons.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:16:08 am by NUKE9.13 »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #567 on: May 06, 2018, 03:31:17 am »

 Tokens has nothing that is particularly armoured, so I feel the 19 version would be better for us.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 01:46:59 pm by Kashyyk »
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Man of Paper

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #568 on: May 06, 2018, 10:23:15 am »

Alternately, the amount of firepower we could level on the Token lines (I think I'll refer to them as such from now on) would be immense, and I imagine that after knowing we stole they shit that they might improve armor in response. They likely expect us to reduce complexity, and if they're smart they'll suspect rocket pods. Overwhelming firepower might be the way to go.

Plus we only have HE right now, which we'll need a few rounds of if they up-armor or reveal a heavy vehicle. Might be a little more ambitious, but I think risk is outweighed by reward.

I'm on a phone, so if a votebox kicks in put me down for the 19 for now.
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Happerry

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - Turn 13, Spring 1954
« Reply #569 on: May 07, 2018, 07:06:48 pm »

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NAF-RLP-54 "Bartender 19" (1) : Man of Paper
NAF-RLP-54 "Bartender 7" (1) : Happerry

Let's get the voting started, shall we?
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