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[Happerry]

Walker Upgrades: (1) NUKE9.13
Aerial Spotters: (1) Kashyyk
Percheron-B (1) 10ebbor10, Happerry

[stabbymcstabstab]

Walker Upgrades: (1) NUKE9.13
Aerial Spotters: (1) Kashyyk
Percheron-B (3) 10ebbor10, Happerry, Stabby

[Man of Paper]

Walker Upgrades: (2) NUKE9.13, MoP
Aerial Spotters: (1) Kashyyk
Percheron-B (3) 10ebbor10, Happerry, Stabby

Immediate issue I have with the engine: we're adding to it without simplifying or removing anything. This is, barring excellent rolling, likely to raise engine costs, which may raise the cost of our aircraft, leading to negating our largest aerial advantage. I'd rather we design a completely new engine to outfit on a dedicated attack helicopter design. Less patch the wound, more suture it up. At the very least revise the bit about inclusion in all our aircraft, instead mentioning the refits only if the engine retains current costs. Honestly still won't vote for it, it's the only option that could potentially damage us, and I think this is one of those rare times that caution is warranted in an Arms Race, but I feel like it'd be an acceptable group decision with that change.

In addition, the engine may still be outclassed by Toskesh's. At the very least they'll be close enough that chances are our potential investors would rather pick an engine that's been tested in combat. I don't see us making significant progress over Toshkesh in regards to aircraft engines outside of a dedicated design.

[10ebbor10]

I think you're afraid for no reason. We're installing an upgrade that was planned for the original engine, and that dramatically improves efficiency. If anything, costs will drop rather than rise.

Besides, if the design really were worse than the original, which is very unlikely, ES wouldn't include it on our stuff. Being damaged by a design isn't a thing.

In addition, the engine may still be outclassed by Toskesh's. At the very least they'll be close enough that chances are our potential investors would rather pick an engine that's been tested in combat. I don't see us making significant progress over Toshkesh in regards to aircraft engines outside of a dedicated design.

It's not a contest.

That aside, we're pretty close to Tokeshian performance. With luck, our revision will allow us to exceed them.

Hell, we have several innovations in our engine that they don't have.

[Man of Paper]

I'm not afraid it'll be a bad engine, but it already only costs us one oil and one cobalt. Ultimately, and unfortunately, resource efficiency-wise this engine is as good as it's probably going to get. In game terms I can see adding a multi-stage compressor changing the engine costs by -1 Oil +1 Ore on a successful roll. Our "Draft" already costs 1 Oil - I don't see GM reducing it to 0 for us. Even if adding the Perc.-B to the Draught increased oil efficiency at the cost of that one ore, it's Expensive with our Oil and Ore costs within our threshold. A 1 Oil/1 Ore flip would put us over our ore limit, which would pop it over to VE, unless I'm mistaken on the rules (which I may be with the variety of ARs this forum has that I've been checking out). The Draft is also at our Ore threshold and considered Expensive already.

Now the engine will almost definitely increase performance, but right now numbers are our strength in the air. Cutting them down to 10% of what we have now is suicide, and something that could happen with this revision.

Reading back through the resources thing in the OP, I did see something of note. Specifically, this in regards to Unique Resources:

As time goes on these resources may be discovered in areas on the map, or your side may find an exporter that they can purchase from.

As we do control vast swathes of possibly mineral-rich territory, what are thoughts on designing a Geological Survey Team at some point when we have some TC to utilize or shuffle around without ruining something?

[10ebbor10]

No it can't.

Even in the tremendously unlikely event that moving a few internal components around changes the ore cost, all that would do is split the design. We'd get a few of the upgraded heli's, and keep our old version for the rest.Like Tokesh's rockets and how they got them on their hovercraft.

And really, increasing ore cost is not going to happen. We're not adding tonnes of material to these engines. It's a small change of which we've done many.

You have more reason to be afraid of the Walker upgrades increasing cost, and even that would be excessive.

[Man of Paper]

Walker Upgrades: (1) NUKE9.13
Aerial Spotters: (2) Kashyyk, MoP
Percheron-B (3) 10ebbor10, Happerry, Stabby

You're right, there's nothing in our Megamule's description to hint at the mechanisms it uses being even or cheaper than what our current walkers use. Changing my vote to the only thing that, barring clearer evidence, won't neuter us on a less-than-optimal roll.

[Urist Mc Dwarf]

Walker Upgrades: (1) NUKE9.13
Aerial Spotters: (2) Kashyyk, MoP
Percheron-B (3) 10ebbor10, Happerry, Stabby, Urist

[evictedSaint]

Percheron-B The engine it was supposed to be. The Percheron B includes a multistage compressor and other festures that were left out of the original design, and is included on our heli's and airships.

Easy Difficulty: 3

With our experience regarding turboshafts, the Percheron B is a resounding success.  It is swapped onto everything that uses our older turboshafts and even the airship (which didn't use turboshafts to begin with).  Everything that used this new engine drops by 1 Oil (except for the airship, which drops by 2 Oil).

Making an engine better than this will be pretty hard to do, since the Percheron-B is rivals engines produced in First World Superpowers.  It is comparatively equal to what Toskesh is currently fielding.

[Man of Paper]

Hold on while I get the taste of my foot out of my mouth. Glad the engine went the way it did.

Is pushing into the swamps via the mountains something anyone else has mulled over? There may be benefits to screwing with their supply lines. Badlands seems to be our most prominent issue, so pushing both at the same time might see our forces have an easier go at retaking ground there.

There's also the likelihood that the swamp will bog down walkers, and likely ensnare their hovercraft. Luckily, we have troops and artillery that don't rely on ground vehicles for mobility. Next season will definitely see the frozen swamp freeze over enough to support their armor and, more importantly, artillery, so if we manage to get a foothold now we can hold off for a season and push our other fronts while they're forced to use at least one advance to push us off their doorstep.

I'm on a phone, so I'm not sure how well it reads or if I made all my points. Oh well, just discussing anyways.

[NUKE9.13]

We already tried invading the Swamp once; our walkers sank whilst their hovercraft hovered over the top. Like, the swamp is the perfect place for hovercraft. I think we should push Badlands and the Sea this turn.

Anyway, we should submit the Percheron-B to the investors, for what it's worth. Maybe they won't just compare us to Toskesh.

Whether we should accept the USA's proposal... I mean, we know it will give Toskesh an espionage credit (though if things are balanced, them using that espionage credit should get us an espionage credit in return, I think). We probably should- advancing further on our EDT is gonna take a while, and we can gain TC at sea relatively easily, so exploiting it should be possible.

Obviously we choose aluminium for our EDT reward, to get Cheap copters.

Attack the
Swamp: (1) Man of Paper
Badlands: (2) Man of Paper, NUKE9.13
Sea: (1) NUKE9.13


Show off to investors
Percheron-B: (1) NUKE9.13


Crack down on commies for USA ore?
Yes: (1) NUKE9.13
No:


Special resource from EDT
Aluminium: (1) NUKE9.13

[Kashyyk]

Spoiler:  Resources (click to show/hide)

Cobalt: Able to be mixed into superalloys, there has been some talk about the use of cobalt in the development of cutting-edge jet engines.  It’s useful for high-temperature components and is highly resistant to wear and corrosion.
Titanium: Highly resistant to corrosion and with a fantastic weight-to-strength ratio, this difficult-to-work metal is highly useful for a wide range of weapon applications.  It’s hard to get large amounts of it, though, so we won’t be able to make an entire tank out of it – even if tanks were still legal.
Manganese:  Much like cobalt, manganese is most useful when mixed into superalloys.  Mangalloy (commonly referred to as “unworkable” due to how hard it is) is useful for armor reinforcement.  Components made with mangalloy are quite hard to destroy.
Aluminum:  Most of our planes from the previous war use this metal to cut weight, despite not being particularly hardy.  Even with fixed-wing fighters and bombers being illegal, we might still find some use for this metal in designs that need to be light and quick.  This resource is particularly plentiful, and picking it will give our side 2 Aluminum resources.
Tungsten:  This metal can be mixed with steel to form High Speed Steel, which finds its use in drills, blades, and saws that can cut through high-carbon steel quite quickly.  It can also be used to form high-density alloys which may find use as kinetic energy penetrators.
Gold:  Though it finds some use as electrical components, gold doesn’t have particularly many uses in weapons.  It can be used to decorate your weapons, though, and make them look impressive and Baroque.

Quoted from the start of the thread.

I think we should go for manganese. Our walkers are inherently fragile at the joints. Hardening them will make our vehicles much more durable.

Attack the
Swamp: (1) Man of Paper
Badlands: (3) Man of Paper, NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
Sea: (2) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
Show off to investors
Percheron-B: (2) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
Crack down on commies for USA ore?
Yes: (2) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
No:
Special resource from EDT
Aluminium: (1) NUKE9.13
Manganese: (1) Kashyyk

[NUKE9.13]

NAF-UH-51 "Draft" – Nogrania's first helicopter.  Uses a single NAF-TS-53 "Percheron" turboshaft engine for power, mounted in the nose.  Prone to capsizing in inclement weather.  Can carry 1 pilot and 5 passengers, or 1 pilot, 3 passengers, and 2 Wictor NMG's mounted on the doors.  Tricycle landing gear, no armor, pilot cabin mounted over the fuselage to make room for the engines.  Angled tail boom, two blades on the main rotor. 4 Ore, 1 Oil, 1 Cobalt, 1 Aluminum. [Expensive].

NAF-UH-51-A "Draught" – A combat variant of the Draft.  Features two forward-facing Emu's in addition to the side-mounted Emu's, which can be simultaneously operated with each hand of a single passenger.  Comes with detachable floats to allow it to land on water.  Features two mountings for 110 lb bombs, though both must be dropped at once to maintain balance.  Painted black, so it looks really cool.  4 Ore, 3 Oil, 1 Cobalt, 1 Aluminum.  [Expensive].

If we choose aluminium, we get Cheap helicopters. We already have all the other resources, all we need is 1 aluminium

...unless we were to revise out the aluminium cost of our copters, using the more powerful engine to make up for the extra weight, that could also make them Cheap. But I'd still go with the aluminium, since we wouldn't have to sacrifice performance, and we'd get the cheaper copters immediately.

[Man of Paper]

Ah, forgot the swamp was already attacked. In that case...

Attack the
Badlands: (3) MoP, NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
Sea: (3) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, MoP
Show off to investors
Percheron-B: (3) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, MoP
Crack down on commies for USA ore?
Yes: (2) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
No:
Special resource from EDT
Aluminium: (2) NUKE9.13, MoP
Manganese: (1) Kashyyk

[/quote]

[frostgiant]

Attack the
Badlands: (4) MoP, NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Frostgiant
Sea: (4) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, MoP, Frostgiant
Show off to investors
Percheron-B: (4) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, MoP, Frostgiant
Crack down on commies for USA ore?
Yes: (3) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Frostgiant
No:
Special resource from EDT
Aluminium: (3) NUKE9.13, MoP, Frostgiant
Manganese: (1) Kashyyk