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Author Topic: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania - GAME OVER  (Read 53607 times)

Kot

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2018, 01:27:28 am »

1. Screw propelled tank. Replacing the tank treads on the illegal tank should probably be worthy of an design action. I'd also wager we could slap a Wickers on it and hope we follow up with a revision for the Wickers...

2. Trigger cranks. Incredibly annoying to actually shoot with when carrying the gun in hands, but considering only automatic we have is basically a heavy Vickers MG, it should do fine. Just revise the Wickers to be semi-auto and slap a trigger crank onto it.

Design:
NAF-SPAT-51 "Sledge” - It's a Thatcher modified to be legal under Geneva conventions. The tank treads are replaced with counter-rotating screw system with inflatable rubberized tips that allow it to develop it reasonable speed offroad, but still be able to use roads to some extent, as well as move sideways. The rest of tank stays mostly the same, except additional mounts for machineguns in hull, turret and anti-aircraft pintle mount on top (that we aren't going to put anything on yet, as machineguns are obviously illegal).
The "could be contested in court variant", probably not that hard, but eh.

NAF-SPAT-51 "Decapod" It's a Thatcher modified to be legal under Geneva conventions. The tank treads are replaced with five pairs of simple, short legs and armoured which move slightly upwards and forward, with foremost and rearmost pair being able to turn sideways a bit, to allow the whole vehicle to turn. The vehicle should be capable of strafing and able to curl up the legs and lie on the ground. The rest of tank stays mostly the same, except additional mounts for machineguns in hull, turret and anti-aircraft pintle mount on top (that we aren't going to put anything on yet, as machineguns are obviously illegal).
The reasonable variant, hard?

NAF-SPAT-51 "Hexapod"   It's a Thatcher modified to be legal under Geneva conventions. The tank treads are replaced with three pairs of legs, with the foremost and rearmost pair angled slightly along the main body of the vehicle. The legs are operated by gears, pulleys and hydraulics, and covered frontally with armour at least as thick as the rest of vehicle has. It should be capable of strafing, leaning, turning and changing it's height, up to lying on the ground completly. The rest of tank stays mostly the same, except additional mounts for machineguns in hull, turret and anti-aircraft pintle mount on top (that we aren't going to put anything on yet, as machineguns are obviously illegal).
The out-there variant, very hard if not worse.

NAF-SPAT-51 "Flytrap” It's a Thatcher modified to be legal under Geneva conventions. The tank treads are replaced with empty space insulated to the ground with rubber skirts. The engine is made to power a fan which fills the cushion under the tank with air, and allows it to hover over the ground and water. The rubber skirts exposure to outside should be kept as low as possible, to keep it from being penetrated by bullets. The rest of tank stays mostly the same, except additional mounts for machineguns in hull, turret and anti-aircraft pintle mount on top (that we aren't going to put anything on yet, as machineguns are obviously illegal).
The non-legged but legal variant, probably also quite hard to do.

Revision:
NAF-NMG-51 "Wictor" – It's a semi-auto version of the old Wickers machine gun with purpose-designed crank fire adapter, which depresses the trigger every few degrees of rotation, making it into a very fast firing semi-auto non-machinegun. It has the added benefit of the user being able to control the firerate by changing how fast they rotate the crank. The non-machinegun will be added to the machinegun mounts on the NAF-AFW-51, NAF-UH-51 and other places where it's applicable, as well as skis added to it's original mounts to allow for some mobility, and also horse packs that allow the machinegun to be carried with speed and reduce the amount of men required in a squad. With enough suppresing fire the water from the water jacket could be used to brew tea, although it's not really advisable.

NAF-SAR-51 "Kotow" (give me a better name and I'll use it) - It's a semi-auto version of the old Enfield, with external gas piston. Includes offset sights and changed stock, to ensue that the bolt doesn't hit the shooter. The rifle features an enlarged magazine of 20 rounds, pistol grip, a bipod doubling as forward grip and a bayonet.

Quote
Analysis
NAF-SPAT-41 "Paradigm" (4): Chiefwaffles, Frostgiant, Stabby, Talion
NAF-SPAT-51 "Hexapod" (1): Kot

Design

Team Bonus
Cobalt (3): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (2): Kot, Stabby
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (1): Frostiant
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 08:01:43 pm by Kot »
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Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

BBBence1111

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 08:05:45 am »

Quote
Analysis
NAF-SPAT-41 "Paradigm" (4): Chiefwaffles, Frostgiant, Stabby, Talion
ELT-SPAT-51 "Hexapod" (1): Kot
SPAT-51 "Flytrap" (1): BBBence

Design

Team Bonus
Cobalt (3): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (3): Kot, Stabby, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (2): Frostiant, BBBence
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Kot

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 08:13:32 am »

Quote
Analysis
NAF-SPAT-41 "Paradigm" (4): Chiefwaffles, Frostgiant, Stabby, Talion
NAF-SPAT-51  "Flytrap" (2): BBBence, Kot

Design

Team Bonus
Cobalt (3): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (3): Kot, Stabby, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (2): Frostiant, BBBence
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 08:19:27 am by Kot »
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Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

evictedSaint

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 08:34:17 am »

Analysis: NAF-SPAT-51 "Paradigm"
The Paradigm is more-or-less a modernization of the SPAT-35 using experimental new technologies. The light armor and cramped interior of the SPAT-35 Thatcher was deemed perfect for this purpose.

Its innovation are four two-jointed "legs" replacing the treads. Via (manual) switching of the transmission, the legs can do amazing things like "move forward", "move backward", or "move sideways". They can't actually turn the vehicle, though they don't need to due to the rotation of the turret (still an Ironcaster). The legs can also "crouch", lowering the vehicle closer to the ground and making it less of a target. The legs take the appearance veeerry vaguely of those of a generic 4-legged animal. The crew stays the same.
The armor is completely removed - meaning the crew and the like are largely exposed. A thin-armored cover shield is attached to the barrel, allowing cover from wherever the turret's facing.

The Paradigm is intended for use as mobile artillery (close-ish to the front-lines) and not as a front-line combatant. So we can actually use our artillery offensively (and work towards more competent walkers). It's much more "artillery on legs" rather than "light tank".

Analysis: Normal Difficulty

Your engineers are able to make some impressive deductions from the leaked footage of modified Russian T-34's.  The shiny hydraulic tubes are quickly pointed out, and your team makes note of the way the tank shifts its weight between each step.  With the design for the Paradigm all laid out they take the liberty of doing a few rough calculations and schematics.

It doesn't look...well...too hard.  Obviously this is tech we haven't dealt with before, but our advancement goals aren't terribly ambitious.  The Paradigm features four legs, which should make stability issues less of a concern, and since it's stripped down to the gun, motor, and transmission the weight issues are likewise alleviated.  The curious specification that it doesn't need to be able to turn also simplifies things, as does neglecting any armoring for the limbs.

In short, your engineers agree that the Paradigm is very doable as a Normal Difficulty design.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 08:54:11 am by evictedSaint »
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Kot

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2018, 08:40:13 am »

Quote
Design
NAF-SPAT-51 "Decapod (1): Kot

Team Bonus
Cobalt (3): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (3): Kot, Stabby, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (2): Frostiant, BBBence
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Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

BBBence1111

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 08:50:59 am »


Quote
Design
NAF-SPAT-51 "Decapod (2): Kot, BBBence

Team Bonus
Cobalt (3): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (3): Kot, Stabby, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (2): Frostiant, BBBence
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 08:55:31 am »

Okay. The Paradigm is basically an "easy Normal" design. Considering the Decapod adds complexity to the legs (not just in the number, but the functions too) and doesn't do any of the complexity-cutting measures that the Paradigm takes, I predict that it'd be on the edge of Hard and Very Hard.

We need a solid base. The Paradigm may not immediately be able to serve as a front-line tank, but it'll allow us to easily and competently make walker-based designs - including tanks - in the very near future. So I think difficulty matters a lot here in that case. We should focus on something we can easily build off of - we need to focus on developing the technology first before

Design: NAF-SPAT-51 "Paradigm"
The Paradigm is more-or-less a modernization of the SPAT-35 using experimental new technologies. The light armor and cramped interior of the SPAT-35 Thatcher was deemed perfect for this purpose.

Its innovation are four two-jointed "legs" replacing the treads. Via (manual) switching of the transmission, the legs can do amazing things like "move forward", "move backward", or "move sideways". They can't actually turn the vehicle, though they don't need to due to the rotation of the turret (still an Ironcaster). The legs can also "crouch", lowering the vehicle closer to the ground and making it less of a target. The legs take the appearance veeerry vaguely of those of a generic 4-legged animal. The crew stays the same.
The armor is completely removed - meaning the crew and the like are largely exposed. A thin-armored cover shield is attached to the barrel, allowing cover from wherever the turret's facing.

The Paradigm is intended for use as mobile artillery (close-ish to the front-lines) and not as a front-line combatant. So we can actually use our artillery offensively (and work towards more competent walkers). It's much more "artillery on legs" rather than "light tank".

Spoiler: Reference Image (click to show/hide)


Quote
Design
NAF-SPAT-51 "Decapod (2): Kot, BBBence
NAF-SPAT-51 "Paradigm" (1): Chiefwaffles

Team Bonus
Cobalt (3): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (3): Kot, Stabby, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (2): Frostiant, BBBence
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Kot

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2018, 09:00:44 am »

The problem is we probably need a good frontline design, and we can always use a research credit on the thing.
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BBBence1111

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2018, 09:15:46 am »

If we have no frontline, how do you propose we protect the artillery?
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frostgiant

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2018, 09:37:33 am »



Quote
Design
NAF-SPAT-51 "Decapod (2): Kot, BBBence
NAF-SPAT-51 "Paradigm" (2): Chiefwaffles, Frostgiant

Team Bonus
Cobalt (3): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (3): Kot, Stabby, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (2): Frostiant, BBBence
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2018, 09:55:02 am »

Quote
Design
NAF-SPAT-51 "Decapod (2): Kot, BBBence
NAF-SPAT-51 "Paradigm" (3): Chiefwaffles, Frostgiant, NUKE9.13

Team Bonus
Cobalt (4): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant, NUKE9.13
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (3): Kot, Stabby, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (3): Frostiant, BBBence, NUKE9.13
Alright, so. My reasoning here is thus:
-Doing a Normal design is substantially more likely to get us a decent piece of kit, as well as experience which we can use for our next design to make a frontline fighting vehicle. It's not like mobile artillery is worthless. And this way we can save our Research Assistance for something harder down the line.
-Tungsten is a reactive choice. It counters heavy armour that our enemy may decide not to use, especially when they see we have chosen Tungsten. Cobalt is a proactive choice, giving us better jet engines which are useful in many areas, and decreased maintenance requirements.
-Both red and blue are overdone. Plus I just like the colour green.
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Long Live United Forenia!

SamSpeeds

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2018, 10:02:58 am »

Quote
Design
NAF-SPAT-51 "Decapod (2): Kot, BBBence
NAF-SPAT-51 "Paradigm" (4): Chiefwaffles, Frostgiant, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds

Team Bonus
Cobalt (5): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (3): Kot, Stabby, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (4): Frostiant, BBBence, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
Yeah, pretty much!
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BBBence1111

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2018, 10:15:11 am »

Guys. We can't protect our artillery. We need something that can make the enemy stay in the firing zone instead of overrunning the guns.
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Proud Juraki/Cannalan/Kasgyr/Ertexite/Karikhitan/Nogranian/Aratam Engineer.

stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2018, 10:27:46 am »

Quote
Design
NAF-SPAT-51 "Decapod (2): Kot, BBBence
NAF-SPAT-51 "Paradigm" (5): Chiefwaffles, Frostgiant, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Stabby

Team Bonus
Cobalt (6): Chiefwaffles, Talion, Frostgiant, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Stabby,
Titanium (0):
Manganese (0):
Aluminum (0):
Tungsten (2): Kot, BBBence
Gold (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion

Team Color
Blue (2): Chiefwaffles, Talion
Red (2): Kot, Stabby
Green (4): Frostiant, BBBence, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds

Really as a revision we could armor the Paradigm and need to add at most a extra set of legs to make up for the extra weight.
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BBBence1111

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Re: Arms Race: Iron Behemoths - Nogrania [NEW!]
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2018, 10:30:59 am »

Really as a revision we could armor the Paradigm and need to add at most a extra set of legs to make up for the extra weight.
Or we could design a proper tank and make the not!machinegun Kot suggested.
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