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[Pavellius]

Question to evictedSaint:

Their radios are unencrypted. Would it be a design to try to find some translators?

[RAM]

VI.    Automatic Weaponry:
Protocol VI on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Automatic Weaponry prohibits the use of weaponry which fires greater than one projectile per activation of the device.  This includes weapons which in the user is able to continue the firing of said weapon without further input or intervention.  The reason is that such weaponry enables one user to rapidly cause the death of many in an indiscriminate fashion, needlessly accelerating the rate at which casualties are inflicted during the conflict.

Nogrania Mills Bomb – British grenades, developed in 1915. Features a distinctive “pineapple” shape, a pin, and lever spoon. Relatively heavy grenades with a seven second fuse, which results in infantry typically “cooking” them for a few seconds before throwing. The grooved surface results in unpredictable shrapnel spread. Not terribly useful for anti-infantry use due to the long cook-off time and short range, but can be used to throw off the tread of a tank or clear small areas. 1 Ore.  [Cheap].

Greater than one projectile: The grenade "projects" many lethal fragments from a single activation. This is explicit in the design of the thing and is a clear violation.
The goal of the weapon is clearly to kill groups of infantry with a single deployment, to clear entire room casually, with little risk to the wielder, no need to confirm targets, no need to even see the people you are killing. It clearly, and intentionally, violates the purpose of the purpose of the prohibition by providing casual murder of multitudes.
The device is further offensive in that it is, by explicit design, unpredictable in its spread. Any civilians within a large number of metres could easily fall victim to one of these deliberately uncontrolled projectiles. It should, at the very least, be forbidden from use in urban areas!

It must be removed from service, and kept from service as long as it continues to bear shrapnel!

I would like to see a proposal for a gun that has a three man crew. One ammunition-handler, one gun-operator, and one trigger-operator. I would like it to be more powerful than our existing machine gun and more accurate too. Also with a shield to deflect small-arms fire so that it can operate as a suppression weapon with minimal chance of being suppressed itself. It would be a heavy-weapon rather than a rifle, but...

[Light forger]

Type-51a Páoxiāo de léi shēng RGL
TLDR: The Páo-shē is a gas-delayed blow-forward, semi-automatic 25mm grenade launcher fed from a 10 round detachable box magazine. The RGL is designed to be man portable and is roughly the size of a light machine gun. The 25mm grenades are graze-fuzed, the fuze won't active for a short time after firing to help prevent the user from killing himself. It comes with a folding stock, foregrip, and a bipod. As a stretch goal it has a field conversion kit that can install a crank trigger and belt feed.


The Páo-shē repeating grenade launcher is designed to fill the void created by our inability to make use of machine guns. It's designed to fire a large volume of 25mm grenades to suppress and eliminate hostile forces. In order to avoid the use of a complex "high-low" system the RGL makes use of a gas-delayed blow-forward operation to maximize barrel length. Like all blow-forward system rather then the receiver moving the barrel instead move forward to cycle the gun. The gas delay is created by a chamber in front of the barrel's rear position.  When fired the gas from the round fills this chamber and, when combined with the force of the recoil spring to keep the action closed. Once the projectile leaves the weapon the gas can vent and the remaining recoil cycles the weapon. Thanks to being a blow-forward action the weapon only needs a very short receiver behind the barrel allowing the RGL to have a 650mm barrel with only a total 720mm length(sans stock).

It fires 25mm grenades with a graze fuze from a 10 round box magazine. The graze fuze is design to trigger the explosive charge on pretty much contact with any solid surface and, most importantly glancing hits on the ground. In order to reduce the likelihood of the user killing himself the fuze has a short delay before activating. It's fed from a 10 round double stack detachable box magazine located in front of the trigger guard. The weapon is semi-automatic and has recoil only slightly worst then our current bolt-action rifle. The muzzle velocity is lack-luster but, more then enough to give the weapon decent range and, an acceptable travel time. In order to keep it compact when not in use the weapon comes with a folding stock and, to improve control-ability it has a foregrip and bipod.

As a possible stretch goal the RGL has a static defense conversion kit. The kit works by removing the rear(stock, trigger group, receiver) of the weapon and replacing it. The replacement has a crank trigger and a belt feed. The feed works by a screw like feeder which removes the round from the belt and rotates it around until it pushes up on the magazine well. The crank trigger works in two way first it provides the power needed to remove the rounds from the belt. When trigger of the pistol grip in back of the new receiver is pressed it also fires the weapon about every 1/3 of a rotation. To complete the kit it also includes a heavy-duty tripod to anchor the weapon.

[Thanik]

Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang (Type 52 Generation I Battle Rifle)
Following the ban on automatic weapons developed during the second world war, semi-automatic battle rifles have once again become a viable route for further weapons research and development with the final goal being the creation of a firearm that would match it's destructive power while still complying with the Geneva convention. The Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang is Toskesh' attempt at creating just such a weapon, and it's first truly modern, homemade rifle-sized firearm.

The rifle uses a long-stroke gas operation for increased reliability, where-in the piston is mechanically fixed to the bolt group and moves through the entire operating cycle. With this kind of operation, the mass of the piston rod adds to the momentum of the bolt carrier enabling more positive extraction, ejection, chambering, and locking. While this increases the mass of the assembly somewhat, it doesn't influence the weapon's methods of fire or their accuracy and so is an acceptable trade off. This type of operation automatically reloads the weapon, allowing for a higher rate of fire than that of a manually reloaded rifle. A charging handle is connected to the piston to allow a soldier to easily clean jams in the field, or otherwise operate the bolt for maintenance, disassembly and similar activities. The weapon is chambered in the 8x36mm Lujun He 52-Xing Zhandou Buqiang cartridge, which is described further down, allowing for good accuracy, stopping power and penetration. Due to the relatively low pressure caused by it's propellant burn, it also features tame recoil (only around 4.02 ft lb!) and a lowered chance of jams due to case deformation or chamber damage. These rounds are kept in staggered double-column, double-feed 30-round magazines, enabling the use of a stripper clip integrated within the magazine, resting inside of it when not in use.

The Dài-I Zha-Buqiang is mostly made out of metal, with a wooden stock to reduce weight. Auxilliary equipment for the weapon include a rubber pad for the stock for added recoil absorption, a bipod or a foregrip, a 6x32mm 'Xianjian zhe' optical scope which can be fitted on a weaver-type rail on top of the assembly, foldable iron sights positioned behind and ahead of the rail and a sling which can be used to more easily carry the weapon when not in the field. Overall, it is around 1,008 mm long, with a 508 mm long barrel and weights around 4.21 kg including it's ammo, and 3.85 kg without it.

Spoiler: 8x36mm Lujun He 52-Xing Zha-Buqiang (click to show/hide)

8x36mm Lujun He 52-Xing Zhandou Buqiang
The cartridge is a centerfire brass cartridge measuring 10.97 mm by 52 mm, where the casing weights 1.17 grams (18 grains), firing a 8 mm by 24 mm 140 grain boat tail round. The casing has a capacity of around 2.4 grams (37 grains), while 1.613 grams (24.9 grains) of powder are used to attain a velocity of 720 m/s. Due to it's size and good stopping power compared to previous weapons (it quite a punch at 2350 J with the 508 mm barrel), the weapon has very little felt recoil when a single shot is fired - only around 4.02 ft lb - which is directed directly into the shoulder, softened by the gun's rubber pad, and the round itself weights little at just 121 grains or 11.851 grams. During sustained fire, the weapon only musters around 5.36 ft lb with it's maximum rate of fire of 80 rounds per minute during rapid fire, making it very easy to control during firefights and even more so during standard engagements over longer range - where it's excellent ballistics come into play. The cartridge is made with accuracy, decent stopping power and low recoil in mind, providing excellent performance at the longer end of medium range up to short range, allowing for superior suppressive fire compared to the enemy's own semi-automatic weapon - which is clearly inferior as it is a rip-off of a foreign power's cheap export. The cartridge can be discerned from other cartridges by it's crimson annulus (the ring around the primer) around a navy blue primer.

Designs:
Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang (1): Thanik
Type-52 Páoxiāo de léi shēng RGL (1): Lightforger
Flag Proposals
None!

I'm working on several more design proposals, revisions and a flag. Those should be posted in the next two days~!

[Taricus]

Designs:
Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang (2): Thanik, Taricus
Type-52 Páoxiāo de léi shēng RGL (1): Lightforger
Flag Proposals
None!

[Thanatos Russ]

Designs:
Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang (3): Thanik, Taricus, Thanatos Russ
Type-52 Páoxiāo de léi shēng RGL (1): Lightforger
Flag Proposals
None!

Yeah, we do need a proper rifle at least to tide us over to our proper hovercraft floats out maybe next design.

[Thanik]

Now I present to you my entries for the flag competition. If you have any questions about the symbolism behind any of the things in the flag, be sure to ask~! While I was making them, I stumbled upon a possible origin for our nation's name - at least in-Universe wise.

Tóngzhì De She, used in short-form Tondeshe, could've been misheard by foreigners or the Nogranians as Toskesh. The word Tóngzhì means Comrade in Chinese, while the words De She mean 'Of The' and 'Serpent' respectively. Following that line of logic, our nation's name, when translated, means 'Comrades of the Serpent', symbolizing our tie to the dragons of ancient China and it's mythology. Note this isn't entirely grammatically correct, since I don't speak a word of Chinese, and is more along the lines of creating some culture for us which makes sense and is internally consistent.

Now onto the flags!

First Iteration:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Second Iteration, Golden:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Second Iteration, National Color:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This flag incorporates three unequal horizontal stripes in two colors - red and naval blue - representing ... WIP

Second Iteration, Large:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Third Iteration, Without Dragon:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Third Iteration, With Dragon:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The design is a solid field of naval blue, symbolizing the ocean the people of Toskesh crossed to reach this land and the sky before twilight,  adorned with an emblem taking up most of the canvas. The red is a traditional revolutionary symbol dating before the popular bolshevik revolution of 1917, and its incorporation into the flag pays tribute to the international aspect of workers' revolution, while the gold lotus leaves represents the divine, spiritual beauty and the completeness of the union, as well as the the three pillars of Tondesh society. The lower piece of the emblem features a dragon, representing the excellency, endurance and outstanding nature of the people, comrades of the dragons, and describes them as those possessing power, strength, and good luck for people who are worthy of it. The emblem features a red and blue taijitu symbol which is located in the upper hoist quarter, representing the Toskesh Communist Party, and its position over the dragon symbolises its leading role in Toskesh's socialist society to unify and enlighten the workers and peasants in the building of communism. Golden lotus leaves sit to the right of the taijitu, with which they form a lotus flower whose unfolding petals suggest the expansion of the soul. The growth of its pure beauty from the mud of its origin holds a benign spiritual promise to Toskesh people, and like the Proletarian, while growing from mud (the imperial system that preceded it), it is unstained.

Third Iteration, Prosperity:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fourth Iteration, Original:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fourth Iteration, Red:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fourth Iteration, Gold:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fourth Iteration, Hammer and Sickle:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The design is a solid field of naval blue, symbolizing the ocean the people of Toskesh crossed to reach this land and the sky before twilight, adorned with a red and gold emblem taking up most of the canvas. The red is a traditional revolutionary symbol dating before the popular bolshevik revolution of 1917, and its incorporation into the flag pays tribute to the international aspect of workers' revolution, while the gold represents the completeness of the union, the Sun and the hard work of the workers. The lower piece of the emblem features two dragons holding a hammer and sickle, respectively, representing the union of the golden dragon holding the hammer (workers) and red dragon holding the sickle (peasants) and their victorious and enduring revolutionary alliance. In the Chinese language, excellent and outstanding people are compared to a dragon, who is also a symbol of power, strength, and good luck for people who are worthy of it. The emblem is topped by a red and yellow taijitu symbol representing the Toskesh Communist Party, the unity of the Proletarian class and the Sun. The red hammer symbolises urban industrial workers while the golden sickle symbolises agricultural workers (peasants)—who together, as the Proletarian class, form a state in balance. The taijitu represents the Communist Party, and its position over red and gold dragons symbolises its leading role in socialist society to unify and enlighten the workers and peasants in the building of communism. The lotus leaves surrounding the taijitu represent an example of divine beauty. Its unfolding petals suggest the expansion of the soul . The growth of its pure beauty from the mud of its origin holds a benign spiritual promise, and like the Proletarian, while growing from mud (the imperial system that preceded it), it is unstained.

Fifth Iteration:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Designs:
Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang (3): Thanik, Taricus, Thanatos Russ
Type-52 Páoxiāo de léi shēng RGL (1): Lightforger
Flag Proposals (Multiple Votes Allowed!)
Iteration I (0):
Iteration II
- Golden (0):
- National (1): Thanik
- Large (0):
Iteration III
- Without Dragon (0):
- With Dragon (1): Thanik
Iteration IV
- Original (0):
- Gold (0):
- Red (0):
- Hammer and Sickle (1): Thanik
Iteration V (0):

[Jilladilla]

I would've liked to have gotten a basic dual-trigger system up and running, but this works well enough I suppose.

Designs:
Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang (4): Thanik, Taricus, Thanatos Russ, Jilladilla
Type-52 Páoxiāo de léi shēng RGL (1): Lightforger
Flag Proposals (Multiple Votes Allowed!)
Iteration I (0):
Iteration II
- Golden (0):
- National (1): Thanik
- Large (0):
Iteration III
- Without Dragon (0):
- With Dragon (2): Thanik, Jilladilla
Iteration IV
- Original (0):
- Gold (0):
- Red (0):
- Hammer and Sickle (1): Thanik
Iteration V (0):

[evictedSaint]

Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang (Type 52 Generation I Battle Rifle)
Following the ban on automatic weapons developed during the second world war, semi-automatic battle rifles have once again become a viable route for further weapons research and development with the final goal being the creation of a firearm that would match it's destructive power while still complying with the Geneva convention. The Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang is Toskesh' attempt at creating just such a weapon, and it's first truly modern, homemade rifle-sized firearm.

The rifle uses a long-stroke gas operation for increased reliability, where-in the piston is mechanically fixed to the bolt group and moves through the entire operating cycle. With this kind of operation, the mass of the piston rod adds to the momentum of the bolt carrier enabling more positive extraction, ejection, chambering, and locking. While this increases the mass of the assembly somewhat, it doesn't influence the weapon's methods of fire or their accuracy and so is an acceptable trade off. This type of operation automatically reloads the weapon, allowing for a higher rate of fire than that of a manually reloaded rifle. A charging handle is connected to the piston to allow a soldier to easily clean jams in the field, or otherwise operate the bolt for maintenance, disassembly and similar activities. The weapon is chambered in the 8x36mm Lujun He 52-Xing Zhandou Buqiang cartridge, which is described further down, allowing for good accuracy, stopping power and penetration. Due to the relatively low pressure caused by it's propellant burn, it also features tame recoil (only around 4.02 ft lb!) and a lowered chance of jams due to case deformation or chamber damage. These rounds are kept in staggered double-column, double-feed 30-round magazines, enabling the use of a stripper clip integrated within the magazine, resting inside of it when not in use.

The Dài-I Zha-Buqiang is mostly made out of metal, with a wooden stock to reduce weight. Auxilliary equipment for the weapon include a rubber pad for the stock for added recoil absorption, a bipod or a foregrip, a 6x32mm 'Xianjian zhe' optical scope which can be fitted on a weaver-type rail on top of the assembly, foldable iron sights positioned behind and ahead of the rail and a sling which can be used to more easily carry the weapon when not in the field. Overall, it is around 1,008 mm long, with a 508 mm long barrel and weights around 4.21 kg including it's ammo, and 3.85 kg without it.

Spoiler: 8x36mm Lujun He 52-Xing Zha-Buqiang (click to show/hide)

8x36mm Lujun He 52-Xing Zhandou Buqiang
The cartridge is a centerfire brass cartridge measuring 10.97 mm by 52 mm, where the casing weights 1.17 grams (18 grains), firing a 8 mm by 24 mm 140 grain boat tail round. The casing has a capacity of around 2.4 grams (37 grains), while 1.613 grams (24.9 grains) of powder are used to attain a velocity of 720 m/s. Due to it's size and good stopping power compared to previous weapons (it quite a punch at 2350 J with the 508 mm barrel), the weapon has very little felt recoil when a single shot is fired - only around 4.02 ft lb - which is directed directly into the shoulder, softened by the gun's rubber pad, and the round itself weights little at just 121 grains or 11.851 grams. During sustained fire, the weapon only musters around 5.36 ft lb with it's maximum rate of fire of 80 rounds per minute during rapid fire, making it very easy to control during firefights and even more so during standard engagements over longer range - where it's excellent ballistics come into play. The cartridge is made with accuracy, decent stopping power and low recoil in mind, providing excellent performance at the longer end of medium range up to short range, allowing for superior suppressive fire compared to the enemy's own semi-automatic weapon - which is clearly inferior as it is a rip-off of a foreign power's cheap export. The cartridge can be discerned from other cartridges by it's crimson annulus (the ring around the primer) around a navy blue primer.

Normal Difficulty: 4
The Xi-52 Dài-I Zha-Buqiang is Toskesh's first semi-automatic rifle.  It fires an impressive 8 mm round out of a thirty round magazine and uses a long-stroke gas-operated piston to cycle the bolt and a stamped-metal receiver.  Our engineers are able to borrow large parts of our understanding from more recently developed semi-auto rifles around this time, such as the FAL and AK-47.  The Xi-52 is largely metal in construction with a sturdy wooden stock, making it a heavier weapon than our troops are used to.  Recoil is manageable in no small part due to this weight.  A rail is mounted to the top of the assembly, forward of the adjustable iron sights.  This rail was intended to be a mounting for an optical scope, but considering we don't have any scopes available the rail is understandably left empty for the time being.  An additional rail is mounted on the bottom to allow soldiers to equip bipods or foregrips as needed.  Accuracy is comparable to our Mauser Model 1871 - perhaps even a little better.  The 8 mm rounds designed for the Xi-52 are clearly marked with red and blue on the bottom of the cartridge, which doesn't really do anything except look really patriotic.  A rubber pad for the stock was not designed in time, but infantrymen will commonly wrap the stocks in fabric to make up for it. On rare occasion, the bolt will not close completely by the time the operator depresses the trigger, causing an out-of-battery firing.

When asked why it was called the Xi-52 when the current year is 1951, the lead engineer pointed out that it's designed to be the "rifle of the future" and to stop asking questions.  1 Ore.

[RAM]

Can we revise our aircraft into an unarmed scout? Or revise our hover into something that can survive a stubbed toe?

[Tomasque]

Can we revise our aircraft into an unarmed scout? Or revise our hover into something that can survive a stubbed toe?

I think we should revise our rubber skirt to be inflated, so it will float on water even if the engines crap out. It's a simple enough change, and it'll allow us to try the ocean.

[Pavellius]

Maybe we could make a cargo variant of the hover that provides transport capacity.

[Tomasque]

I think we should revise our rubber skirt to be inflated, so it will float on water even if the engines crap out. It's a simple enough change, and it'll allow us to try the ocean.

On further thought, that would be a stupid way to make our hovercraft float.

 Perhaps we should focus on making our hovercraft's skirts less likely to fail. Maybe we could have multiple layers of skirts, so an object passing through wouldn't cause the whole thing to deflate. Something like that.

 Another thought: If we decide to main on hovercraft, then maybe we could develop landmines in the future. They'd be sensitive to a point where they would go off because of the rubber skirt, but would be triggered by something heavy (such as a person or a walker) stepping on them. That's not something I think we should do this turn, though.

[Jilladilla]

II.    Landmines, Booby Traps, and Delayed-Explosives Weapons:
Protocol II on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Delayed-Explosives Weapons prohibits the use of landmines and booby traps undetectable through conventional means in locations typically inhabited by civilians including, but not limited to: cities, roads, farms, and shipping routes.  Warnings must be posted around such trapped areas, and such areas must be clearly marked and delineated from non-trapped areas.  Weapons which primarily use explosive force to destroy its target which are triggered after an undetermined period of time greater than thirty seconds are likewise prohibited from use in all manners of conflict.  The reason is that such weapons have been shown to affect civilians for decades after conflicts have ended and the method of their disposal is not without great risk to non-combatants.

A good idea, but landmines are banned, unfortunately. I think others have come up with ideas to improve the skirts, on the Discord. Guys, come on! Post your thoughts and ideas!

[RAM]

Landmines are not completely banned? they just need to be signposted...? Theoretically we could at least slow them down, and if we can move over them safely, then it would make for very effective repositioning...

Speaking of banned ordnance, I honestly think that we have a case against their grenades. But I'm not going to post a complaint to the U.N. without approval. I mean...
Is it a weapon?
Does it have an activation?
Does that activation produce multiple projectiles?
And for the bonus points: Does this make it practical to attack multiple opponents with a single action?
 It seems pretty open-and-shut... Ours at least doesn't have any speciality shrapnel effects mentioned. So, sure, there are multiple projectiles, but that is an accident, and it might not always happen, and they aren't even projectiles, just cast-off components that fall a little distance away due to being blown by the wind! And if we can at least force the to spend a revision getting their grenades to be more like ours(and ours sound less effective than theirs. Argue all you want about range and angles and accuracy and exposure and space requirements and whatever else with sticks versus balls, I am pretty sure that pineapples beat pies...)