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Author Topic: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]  (Read 108512 times)

Putnam

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #195 on: January 02, 2018, 07:15:53 am »

Well, to be fair falling down a large hole is basically a death sentence thanks to gravity.

... It happened in a f***ing space station

1. a space station the size of a f***ing moon
2. yes, star wars is very well known for its realistic physics

Yeah, like when in new movie Resistance used gravity-dropped bombs on the spaceship and it worked?

bombs were gravity-based in the old canon even in space, see: battlefront 2 (classic, 2005)

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #196 on: January 02, 2018, 07:24:01 am »



1. a space station the size of a f***ing moon


More like the size of an asteroid. Also partially built.

I was willing to overlook it in ROTJ for the sake of Drama.
TLJ, however, piles stoopid upon stoopid... and it becomes hard to ignore. The bombers in the opening scene were kind of dumb as well...

BTW: how did Benicio del Toro learn about the transport plan? IIRC he really shouldn´t have been able to.
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Putnam

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #197 on: January 02, 2018, 07:25:33 am »

every single star wars film is insanely unrealistic over and over again with no resemblance whatsoever to how actual space combat works as one of its main features, i don't know how anyone can act as if this is new in TLJ

it's not a science-based series, it's space opera

Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #198 on: January 02, 2018, 07:59:13 am »

BTW: how did Benicio del Toro learn about the transport plan? IIRC he really shouldn´t have been able to.

There's was a moment where he overhears some radio chatter I think. Apparently it's covered, but it's a brief moment that pretty much the whole audience missed, according to what I've read (the reviewer i read who mentioned it had seen the film more than once). That can be a sign of subtle subtext (e.g. things you only pick up on subsequent viewing) but it can also just be bad film-making: basically, subtle clues that you're guaranteed to miss on first viewing shouldn't be plot-important on the first viewing, but they should be obvious signs on second viewing, e.g. in a mystery series, you should discover the clues that the main character does at the same time as they do, however, you can foreshadow that throughout the film before that point, meaning that meaningless things take on new significance when viewed again. This is not what this film was doing.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 08:02:18 am by Reelya »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #199 on: January 02, 2018, 08:09:27 am »

every single star wars film is insanely unrealistic over and over again with no resemblance whatsoever to how actual space combat works as one of its main features, i don't know how anyone can act as if this is new in TLJ

it's not a science-based series, it's space opera
Even Space Opera has its limits. Thats why the Wing Commander movie is acknowledged to be crap.

that, and, well, the crappy story and development.

Just like TLJ really
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hector13

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #200 on: January 02, 2018, 02:15:04 pm »

every single star wars film is insanely unrealistic over and over again with no resemblance whatsoever to how actual space combat works as one of its main features, i don't know how anyone can act as if this is new in TLJ

it's not a science-based series, it's space opera
Even Space Opera has its limits. Thats why the Wing Commander movie is acknowledged to be crap.

that, and, well, the crappy story and development.

Just like TLJ really

Well this was started with the knowledge there were going to be three films. You're not going to contain the story in one film when you know there's going to be another coming, else they would've ended this one after Kylo figured Rey wasn't for this dark side nonsense.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #201 on: January 02, 2018, 02:48:12 pm »

every single star wars film is insanely unrealistic over and over again with no resemblance whatsoever to how actual space combat works as one of its main features, i don't know how anyone can act as if this is new in TLJ

it's not a science-based series, it's space opera
Even Space Opera has its limits. Thats why the Wing Commander movie is acknowledged to be crap.

that, and, well, the crappy story and development.

Just like TLJ really

Well this was started with the knowledge there were going to be three films. You're not going to contain the story in one film when you know there's going to be another coming, else they would've ended this one after Kylo figured Rey wasn't for this dark side nonsense.

You know, if they cut off the parts after Kylo had declared himself the Supreme Leader of the First Order (maybe the scene between Yoda and Luke after that if it didn't occur before then) and had Leia die when she was blown out into space, the movie probably would have been better for it.  The whole battle at the end could have been stretched into a full movie on its own with a desperate defense driving the last of the Resistance deeper and deeper into the base.  Hell, the Luke pulling a stalling action so a skeleton crew can escape followed by the final scene of this movie would have made a pretty good cap to the trilogy.  Sure, there may have been a few dangling plot threads, but in all likelihood Disney's going to be making another Trilogy.  Plus, kinda makes the Trilogies cyclical, the light to dark of the Prequels leading into the Dark to Light of the Originals leading into the Light to Dark of the (likely first) Sequels, which given what is said about the Force is kinda fitting.  Bonus, if they decide to have a Vong invasion at some point, they could break that cycle and have it be fitting since the Vong are outside the Force.
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smjjames

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #202 on: January 02, 2018, 02:53:33 pm »

Speaking of Yoda, him suddenly gaining a sadistic streak seemed wierd. I get that he was supposed to have been a little eccentric, but the whole zapping the tree with lightning when Luke hesitated or took too long seemed out of character.

As for the Yuuzhan Vong stuff, TLJ seems to take place after his last appearance in the EU according to wookiepedia and so, doing Yuuzhan Vong won't work because he was alive in the EU. Then again, Disney has pretty solidly broken from the EU, so, who knows where it'll go.

edit: Actually, in canon, he apparently dies about a decade before the last EU appearance. Before the EU took a massive 100 year jump anyway.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 03:05:10 pm by smjjames »
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #203 on: January 02, 2018, 03:18:48 pm »

You know, if they cut off the parts after Kylo had declared himself the Supreme Leader of the First Order (maybe the scene between Yoda and Luke after that if it didn't occur before then) and had Leia die when she was blown out into space, the movie probably would have been better for it. ...


Even better, have Leia, and no Holdo, and have Leia do the hyperspace death-run into the enemy ship. Then end it there with Kylo declaring himself the new Supreme Leader as his ship disintegrates, and you can end it with Rei, Finn and Rose in dire straights, with Poe powerless to help. I mean, seriously, the ending of the actual movie is a cop-out after all the big talk: it ends with the "team back together" taking off on the millenium falcon, with a hopeful note. After all the talk of this being a darker film where things don't go as planned, tying all the loose ends up like that is a weaksauce way to end it. Empire Strikes Back was a better cliffhanger because they lost something important (old person mentors dying off is not a loss: it's a routine plot).

THey could even have ended it with Rei at least appearing to side with Kylo Ren, Finn and Rose dead or in unknown status, and Poe powerless to help on the evacuation shuttles. It would have been a much cooler ending, really, and a lot of interesting plot ideas you could go with, if there's speculation on whether Rei's really gone "dark side" or not. After all the force-powered flirtation it seems a cop-out to have her just have Rei do the "i'm sticking with the light" spiel. The film also ends on a buddy-buddy note with the entire reformed crew speeding off in the Millenium Falcon. That's too much like a sitcom ending, where all the team splintering and plot points in between the start and finish didn't actually matter.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 03:29:47 pm by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #204 on: January 02, 2018, 03:26:28 pm »

I was thinking of Darth Maul and Snoke, Anakin survived getting sliced up.

Also Mace Windu didn't survive going out the window. Leia's magic space journey really breaks cannon powers.

I took it more as a reminder that she too, is a powerful force user, even though I'm not aware of Leia ever using it in the movies.

On that side...

You know, if they cut off the parts after Kylo had declared himself the Supreme Leader of the First Order (maybe the scene between Yoda and Luke after that if it didn't occur before then) and had Leia die when she was blown out into space, the movie probably would have been better for it. ...

Even better, have Leia, and no Holdo, and have Leia do the hyperspace death-run into the enemy ship. Then end it there with Kylo declaring himself the new Supreme Leader as his ship disintegrates, and you can end it with Rei, Finn and Rose in dire straights, with Poe powerless to help. I mean, seriously, the ending of the actual movie is a cop-out after all the big talk: it ends with the "team back together" taking off on the millenium falcon, with a hopeful note. After all the talk of this being a darker film where things don't go as planned, tying all the loose ends up like that is a weaksauce way to end it. Empire Strikes Back was a better cliffhanger because they lost something important (old person mentors dying off is not a loss: it's a routine plot).

.. Since Leia is a powerful force user herself, I don't see why she can't act as a teacher for a younger generation of force users. In the EU, there are all kinds of force sensistive individuals (and entire species) and it's entirely possible for them to develop it on their own. The point is more that the Jedi and the Sith wouldn't be the only force users around.
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #205 on: January 02, 2018, 04:03:01 pm »

Hmm, one argument was that the Rotten Tomatoes rating can't be trusted, and everyone actually loves The Last Jedi, because the imdb rating was higher. Well, the imdb rating is slipping, and there are also no good reviews in the highest rated reviews:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2527336/reviews?ref_=tt_urv

Basically pages and pages of user reviews slamming the thing as a turd. The imdb ratings are probably higher than the people who take the time to review the thing, because of a lot of joe average types who like anything blockbustery watching it, while the people on Rotten Tomatoes are more likely to be diehard film buffs too.

So, the main argument that the pro people have is "well people are still going to see it, it can't be that bad". But ... it's Star Wars. People would go to see it no matter what. That's what big franchises do. Amount of money taken at the box office often has little connection to how good something is, it's an irrelevant detail. The Emoji Movie made $216 million worldwide. If a new Star Wars movie made $600 million then that's actually nothing to boast about, it's just expected when a movie with a literal talking turd in the trailers can make 1/3rd of that.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 04:23:26 pm by Reelya »
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #206 on: January 02, 2018, 04:22:19 pm »

You mean the new movie which spawned a giant space lobster from nowhere Sith Noone Knew Existed*  and then killed him off with no previous warning?   :P
So yeah, no, it´s not a peak of narrative quality. If anything it´s sort of reminiscent of Poochie the Dog in The Simpsons (anyone remember that?)


*The name and character implementation are so lame that I´m pretty sure the redditer who came up with this acronym hit jackpot as to it´s etymology.
The bombers in the opening were brilliant.  SW has always been WW2 dogfighters in space, now we have a WW2 bomber in space.  Complete with the obligatory midflight repair/crew death war story.  That bomber is the first SW vehicle I’ve seen since the original trilogy that wasn’t based on any old vehicle, yet still felt like it belonged.
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #207 on: January 02, 2018, 04:38:26 pm »

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2527336/?ref_=tt_urv
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls070150896/

Here's an interesting thing, The Last Jedi was around 8.1 at first, making it the most highly-rated Star Wars movie since the OG, but that's slipped now to 7.6, which is into prequel territory - any more slippage and it's below Revenge of the Sith, and if it slips 10 points, it'll be below Phantom Menance and Attack of the Clones. This will be interesting to watch how it fares with the ratings.

EnigmaticHat

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #208 on: January 02, 2018, 05:15:35 pm »

As for Leia pulling herself out of space... I basically just wrote an essay about this and it digressed at some point.  So I'll split this into two things.  First, about Leia:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then continuing on to talk about TLJ, still using the above points:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 10:42:12 pm by EnigmaticHat »
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McTraveller

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #209 on: January 02, 2018, 08:01:26 pm »

-treatise-
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought Ep 8 was actually pretty good... and that sums up a lot of why. I don't think I put nearly as much though into figuring out why though.

Kudos!
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