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Author Topic: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games  (Read 3745 times)

Paul

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2017, 12:05:49 am »

*waggles hand* It's entirely possible there wasn't much sunk cost fallacy involved there. Businesses with substantial fixed costs (e.g. equipment, employees and brand building to lesser/not quite fitting degrees) can pretty easily end up operating at a loss for a good long while before shutting down or doing what that one did becomes more or less their optimal course of action.

Fiddly bits of how that sort of investment works can mean the eventual net cost to the business is less if they're using it up but still bleeding money for a while, instead of just hemorrhaging over a short(er) period and getting it over with. Sunk costs are definitely involved, and there's no telling if that particular one had actually crunched the numbers and was trying to minimize loss, but rather than being bad decision making it's making the best of a situation that turned sour, for whatever reason.

Basically, while sunk cost fallacy can indeed hurt businesses, there's also times where something that looks like it (to someone without access to their financial reports et al), is something pretty different. A lot of what you mention there looks a fair bit like they were trying for the latter rather than falling prey to the former, too.

No, in this case it was definitely a sunk cost fallacy. They owned their location and owned the equipment, and were remaining open despite never having made a good profit just because they had put so much money into advertising which hadn't worked, training employees, and buying equipment that they couldn't sell for near as much as they had paid for it. They weren't in the red due to fixed costs they were trying to recoup by day to day operating profit - they were barely making enough operating profit to pay employees and didn't have any left to pay themselves for all the time they were putting in. By leasing the space instead they are making considerably more money for far less effort.

I've seen it a lot in business. Another example is a store that I was involved with as one of the partners that spent hundreds of dollars ordering way too many big postcard flyer deals with detachable business cards that had the store info and a coupon. After ordering that money was sunk. We spent a ton of time going all over the dang place putting them out one weekend. Zero coupons got used (print advertising is so dead, lol) and it was just a big waste for the first round. But we had a ton of them left. Their response? We may as well use the rest of them since we have so much money in them, let's drive around and hand the rest out. So they wanted to spend more time and money using the ad materials that had zero effect just because they had already paid for them. I tried to convince them to just use them as a customer loyalty deal and put them in bags to attract repeat purchases and use the money they were going to spend driving around giving these things out for other means of advertising like Facebook and SEM, but I was outvoted. In the end they spent more time and money giving out the rest of these things all over the region. Even months later they never had a single person come in and say they had heard of them from the flyer, nor did anyone ever use any of the coupons.

I also know of a company that bought a crapton of post cards and used the USPS thing to mail to every person in a zipcode. That mailing isn't cheap, and they got zilch out of it. Yet instead of just giving up they had cards left over and expanded their target area and sent a ton more out.

Same logic as people use in these games. Oh, I already put so much time and money into this game - I can't quit now, even if I don't really enjoy it anymore.
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Folly

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2017, 01:45:56 am »

Oh, I already put so much time and money into this game - I can't quit now, even if I don't really enjoy it anymore.

I'm definitely guilty of that. I've spent years logging into MMO's every day, long after they stopped being fun, mostly because I had sunk so much time and effort into them already. Though the lack of alternatives is also a factor. New high-quality MMO's come around far too infrequently.
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Tegga21

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2017, 03:47:13 am »

Its only money, you'll make more.  Drop the addiction.  If your wife will leave you over 16,000 then she has issues.  Apologize for lying to her, set aside a set amount for your hobbies each month(say 1k or so) and stick to it.

This is a great learning experience for you and your wife, take advantage of your own stupidity and fix a flaw in your psyche, force yourself to follow boundaries you set and find out your wife cares more about you than some silly money.
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Sime

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2017, 06:57:29 am »

I think the secret to beating gaming addictions is to avoid playing open-ended, lengthy and continually-extended video games that lack a definite end-point occurring in the near future.
I can easily turn off a Chess app after a single play, but I am forever trapped in reward-anticipation cycles lasting hundreds of hours when playing paradox games.
The time lost to the video games isn't merely the time lost playing them either, it is also the time and mental energy that is lost in daydreaming about the games during office hours when I should be thinking about work, or developing social connections (i'm in tech).

Although I am currently half way through a CK2 game, I managed to stop playing it immediately after a Gavelkind succession and haven't touched it for a month.  I think my secret to defeating my web and gaming addictions is to rechannel my addictive nature towards working activities by attending hackathons, conferences and tech meetup events in London that are related  to my work interests for the comradery and competition.   So it isn't so much about repressing my addictive nature, but understanding how it works in order to cultivate work-related cravings as opposed to cravings to murder a virtual rival heir to the throne of Iceland :)

« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:58:02 am by Sime »
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Shadowlord

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2017, 10:47:44 am »

Its only money, you'll make more.  Drop the addiction.  If your wife will leave you over 16,000 then she has issues.  Apologize for lying to her, set aside a set amount for your hobbies each month(say 1k or so) and stick to it.

This is a great learning experience for you and your wife, take advantage of your own stupidity and fix a flaw in your psyche, force yourself to follow boundaries you set and find out your wife cares more about you than some silly money.

uh, the dude who wrote that reddit post is not here
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MachinaMandala

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2017, 02:12:21 pm »

Its only money, you'll make more.  Drop the addiction.  If your wife will leave you over 16,000 then she has issues.  Apologize for lying to her, set aside a set amount for your hobbies each month(say 1k or so) and stick to it.

This is a great learning experience for you and your wife, take advantage of your own stupidity and fix a flaw in your psyche, force yourself to follow boundaries you set and find out your wife cares more about you than some silly money.

Dude, I'm not the person who made the post.

But I'm still amazed that you think $1k a month on hobbies is an acceptable budget. :')
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Zangi

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2017, 02:53:53 pm »

Its only money, you'll make more.  Drop the addiction.  If your wife will leave you over 16,000 then she has issues.  Apologize for lying to her, set aside a set amount for your hobbies each month(say 1k or so) and stick to it.

This is a great learning experience for you and your wife, take advantage of your own stupidity and fix a flaw in your psyche, force yourself to follow boundaries you set and find out your wife cares more about you than some silly money.
I wish to have a monthly 1k entertainment budget.  Assuming everything else is paid for with savings to boot. 
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Frumple

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2017, 03:42:39 pm »

Yeah, it'd be nice. New computer and roughly what I've spent on gaming since like '09, every month? Or three to five months of grocery bills. Etc., etc. I'd be down with it.

... actually pretty sure I wouldn't really be able to figure out how to spend it within a month or three. 3k USD worth of loose change would cover basically everything I'm even remotely interested in currently on the market, near as I can recall off the top of my head. Much of anything beyond that would be some kind of weird frivolous cash dumping. Guess it would entail getting the donation spending on or somethin'...
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marples

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2017, 10:25:14 pm »

...Guess it would entail getting the donation spending on or somethin'...

Take up gambling.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 10:40:26 pm by marples »
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Frumple

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2017, 10:54:09 pm »

Kickstarter or something similar would probably be part of something like that, sure.

... more traditional gambling, not so much. People have convinced me to spend enough of their money on the stuff over the years to know how enjoyable it is for me. Be marginally more interested in taking up the hobby of prodding my eyeballs with a fork.
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Aoi

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2017, 12:49:02 pm »

So this article just showed up on my radar-- https://kotaku.com/apple-says-itunes-apps-must-now-disclose-odds-for-loot-1821497923

The URL headline basically says it all, but the exact line reads “Apps offering ‘loot boxes’ or other mechanisms that provide randomized virtual items for purchase must disclose the odds of receiving each type of item to customers prior to purchase,” according to the article. So while we're still getting screwed on loot boxes, at least we have a better idea of how badly.

... more traditional gambling, not so much. People have convinced me to spend enough of their money on the stuff over the years to know how enjoyable it is for me. Be marginally more interested in taking up the hobby of prodding my eyeballs with a fork.

...I'm on the other side. I've never made a RNGbox purchase (with real money), and replacing my desktop so I'm not replying to this post from a tablet is giving me serious pause... and yet I have no qualms with routinely gambling at the scale where I can see 10k swings in a single day.
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Paul

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Re: A Cautionary Tale of Gambling in Mobile Games
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2017, 01:55:40 pm »

I remember back when I was single and had the spare money to spend on buying games and new computers. That was a few years ago.

Then I had a family, chronic health issues, more medical bills than I can shake a stick at, loss of work, and enough debt to sink the titanic. Now my gaming budget is $0.00 and I'm looking for side jobs in web design and programming and even applying for night shifts at places just to try avoiding losing my car for Christmas, hah.

Circumstances can change quickly. If you have extra cash floating around, I would heartily recommend savings and/or investments rather than gambling and gaming ;)
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