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[MachinaMandala]

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Caution - Wall of text incoming.....don't say I didn't warn you....

I started playing FFBE shortly after launch in July of 2016. It was a fresh take on an old classic, my favorite series of all time, Final Fantasy. When I was 11, in 1988, living in New Jersey, I went to the Nintendo CES in New York City. Nintendo had demo booths for all the upcoming games, and the original Final Fantasy was one of them. It was the coolest game I had ever seen. I got it when it was released and it remained my favorite series of games for years. FFII and FFIII on SNES, I bought a Playstation so I could get FFVII, I got a PS3, but all I wanted to play was FFXII (I personally like Vaan).

Along came married life, kids, jobs, responsibilities, and I could no longer spend time on a console. I didn't have time to sit and play and grid out levels and complete the extra quests like defecting Ruby Weapon. Then FFBE was released. A short format game that I could play for 5 or 10 minutes and put it away. It didn't require a console or a TV, just a few minutes to play a couple of dungeon runs or a quick exploration, then I could put it away for later. It was perfect.

Expedition into the Abyss. The first banner I spent money on. I had been playing the game for 6 weeks or so and I had not found the /r/FFBreveExvius subreddit or the Exvius Wiki, I went into the exploration blind and got wiped out. I leveled my team, I maxed my stats and I just could not win. I got to Ansel finally and beat him, but I was so low on energy. I used lapis refills just to limp past him. Then I got to the exit with the 3 bosses that kicked my but with their 10,000V attack. I was frustrated beyond belief, I had spent all my resources to pass this exploration, and I couldn't leave it like this. I broke my F2P resolve and put down $20. That should be enough to get me out of this dungeon and replace some of the lapis I sepnt so I could at least do the dailies again. I was adamant that I would not spend again.

The first Mog King event I recall was Festival of the Autum Moon, baking Mog Cakes. I spent hours, day after day, grinding the Coast for recipe ingredients. I kept my 2 ovens going, then I increased my capacity to 4 and I stayed true to my resolve, I did not spend any more money. I made it through, I got the Stellar Shield, I got the Lunar Pestle and the Rabbit's Foot. I acomplished my goals without macros, without more resources. My family though kept asking me, what am I tapping on my phone all the time? Why am I always looking at my screen?

I put the phone away and tried to limit myself, only a little while in the morning before I got everyone up for school, I would play for a little while at lunchtime when I wasn't around anyone. I would play on the toilet since I had nothing better to do while I poop. I would play after putting the kids to sleep. I was not taking anything from anyone. I was just playing a game.

I made it to November. The Crystal Tower. The release of Luneth and Refia. The best DPS and the best Healer available at the time. I had saved my lapis, I could do a 10+1 pull, I had maybe 20 or so tickets saved. I used all my resources and was trolled by a rainbow Edge. I was enraged, insenced, insistent that I get Luneth. I put in my card number into my digital wallet and upped myself $99 of Lapis. Then I pulled and pulled and pulled, and I got nothing. So I put in another $99 and pulled and pulled and I got Luneth! I could advance and defeat all new content and share the best DPS possible to all my friends.

It was only $200. I can spare that. I haven't bought a video game in 6 years. I deserve it, I earned it.

I didn't pull for the Brave Frontier cross over event. I saved my resources. I was depressed by all the Elza's I saw my friends sharing, but I was not lucky enough to pull her. I conceded that it was ok, and I could get her again in the future. I still beat the Trial of the Creator and got Maxwell. I had to work hard, but I got the Power of Creation TMR. That made my Luneth a king again.

Then came the Big Bridge. Gilgamesh. The BEST TMR you could get. I still have a 10+1 pull left after my Luneth. I had saved the tickets from the Mog King. I pulled for Greg and failed again. It was only $200 to get Luneth. How bad would that be for the best accessory in the game? I can make my Chizuru or my Cecil so strong. I put in my money again, $99....no Greg, $99....no Greg, $99....no Greg.... I took a break for a little bit. My family had plans for the day. I was angry now. How could I have spent $300 and not gotten what I wanted. When nobody was looking, around everyone, I did it again. $99....no Greg, $99...no Greg, $99...no Greg, $99.....

Finally. I had Gilgamesh. I had maxed out all of my unit inventory. I had to spend time to fuse units, I got my first Excalibur that day as well as some other great TMRs. But I finally had the Genji Golve and I could now make Chizuru strong enough to share with others. She could DPS at 350 attack and more! I could beat all the content with ease using her and Luneth. Yeah, I spent $700, but I would stop now. I had enough. I didn't want to be caught spending money I shouldn't on a video game. It was enough.

Lightning strikes, and I didn't spend anything. I was in control. I didn't need anything new. I was still in the game and doing great. So many events passed and I was still killing everything in sight with my team. I cleared all of the events and new story content. It was fun, I was not an addict, I spent time with my family, I didn't take their time away. I was on top.

Noctis, Prince of all Trades came along. I got greedy. I pulled again...another $300. I got off easy there. I was again in the lead. I was on top. I had the best attacker, best support, best all around at everything. I didn't need anything else.

The Mana Mystery Event came. I was excited! Randi, the Secret of Mana! The Secret of Mana was, hands down, one of the best games to ever come out for the SNES. Open world, exciting characters, fantastic story and fighting. The Nostalgia was incredible for this event. I had to have Randy. I had paid down most of the bill from getting Gilgamesh. I could afford it to have a piece of my childhood back, no matter what the cost. It cost me about $400. I was back to square 1 with paying my bill back. I had spent nearly $1700 on this game now, I couldn't spend any more. It was getting out of control. I unlinked the credit card and got back to my senses. I could keep playing my game. I put my maxed out Randi as my friend unit. I was determined to get the most out of him, no matter what. It was my hard earned money, I should not spend it frivilously.

I made it almost 4 months.

It was my birthday. The Brave Frontier banner was back. The Scyth weilding Queen Elza was back. It was my birthday and I wanted Elza. This was the first double 5* banner I ever tried to pull on. This was the first banner I pulled on after the guaranteed 5* base for Rainbows was announced. It was my birthday and I had to have Elza. I have to get what I want on my birthday. I charged $1500 that day to get her.

I was sick of my actions. I de-linked my card again. I now had a balance of nearly $4000, including other non FFBE related purchases. I had to find a way to stop. I transferred the balance to a new, zero interest card. My family was going on vacation and I needed to be clear to help with expenses. I had some cash saved, I was paying down my debt slowly, I had a plan, I was still in control.

While on vacation, the Veritas Banner was announced. The most anticipated unit since Orlandeau. I had an Orlandeau from tickets, it would be awesome to get a chaining partner for Orlandeau. Veritas of the Dark is the coolest, with the black armor, Dark Damage heals him, and Dark Retribution attack. Something in me snapped, and I was back to I had to have him. It was another double Rainbow banner, maybe I would be lucky this time.

$1000, no Veritas of the Dark. I had 4 Veritas of the Flame. I was angry. How could I have spent so much and not gotten the unit I wanted! Why would Final Fantasy, Gumi, Square Enix, not give it to me? How could I spend so much and not get what I want! Another $1000. I got 2 more Veritas of the Flame, another Orlandeau, a second Freviya, Olive, Emperor, but no Dark Veritas! How! Why! Now I am stubborn. I am not putting this much money out there to not get what I want. $99...no Dark Veritas, $99...no Dark Veritas, $99...a second Emperor, I almost threw my phone against the wall. $99....Finally, Veritas of the Dark. $2500, 9 Veritas of the Flame, half a dozen other 5* base, and I finally got the Veritas of the Dark.

Wait....WTF did I just do?!?!

Did I just really spend $2500 to get a little animated piece of code? What is my wife going to think? What will my kids say? I tell them I don't have much money to spare, I dutifully split my paycheck 3 ways, household expenses, savings and my spending money. I can do what I want with my spending money. I just won't get anything for myself for a year or so, pay this back to my card a couple hundred at a time.

Fuck it. I have what I want. I put in another $1000 just to keep me going with energy refils and I can play whenever and however I want.

Neir came, I pulled with the lapis I had left and got A2 and 2B. Luck is on my side now. Onion Knight, I got on 3 10+1 pulls. I am on top of the world. Gumi must have had some mercy on my account. I have all the units I need, sure there are some I want, but I can get by without Rem and Wilhelm. But who is this awesome new healer! Ayaka, dual white magic, reraise, the things I was missing for Agaion, the Robot Trial! With her, I could be at the top again. I could beat all the trials, all the new story content. It would all be a breeze. I had to get her. I moved all my debt to the balance transfer card. I have a clear card to work with. I can get it and make it go away and I can continue on as normal, just pay down the card and not spend on myself.

Next came Nyx. The Hero of Kingsgalive. I know most people thought it was aweful, but I even like Spirits Within, so hate all you want...I wanted to have Nyx. Another $400. I skipped halloween, but decided I had to have Loren for her TMR. It was a good as the Genji Golve, even better. It would make my team unstoppable for the 10 man trials. Another $500. Honestly I don't know what I spent here, I lost count.

The Tower of Zot! We can have Rubicant! Barbariccia would be cool, but Rubicant is one of my favorite enimies of all time. $99...no Rubicant, $99...no Rubicant. WTF!?! This is a 4* base! What is happening!? F&k it, AGAIN. $500, just to be sure. Get Rubicant, keep pulling for Barbariccia, don't need her, I already have 2 Trance Terra's, but why the F*%k not. Its good for the Raid Bonus.

All right! Rainbow Rate is up! EX rewards are 1.5X! Cloud is coming in December! This is the best time to put some $$ in so I am guananteed to get Cloud. Cloud is Awesome! Cloud is iconic! Cloud is the heart of Final Fantasy! I have my zero interest card at $11K, but I am paying it. I have a way of making it look like I am paying off an old debt to cover if my wife asks where the money went. I went all in. $3000 in lapis. That will last me a good long time, then I can pay off my debt and play and just let it all go away.

On December 7th, 2017, my wife asked if she could use my credit card to buy food and send it to a family member celebrating a huge accomplishment. Offhand, she asked if she could see the balance. She saw something in my response trying to dismiss it and wouldn't let it go. I asked her to go upstairs so we could talk in private. I confessed to having a balance of $5600 on my card due to Final Fantasy. A couple days later, I told her the rest of the story.

I am currently $15,800 in debt. My wife no longer trusts me. My kids, who ask me why I am playing Final Fantasy all the time, will never understand how I selfishly spent money I should have been using for their activities. Their birthdays, their festivals, their clothes, their school events, their weekends, their movies.

I have never spent more than $1000 on my wife at one time. I spent $16,000 on digital garbage in about a year. If she decides that she will not divorce me, I owe her more that I could ever repay. I am not playing anymore. I will not get Cloud. I will leave 500K lapis in an account that will stay idle. The "friends" I have will drop me as my days since last played increases. I will not get to beat Marlboro. I will not see how Chapter 2 plays out. I will not have any 7* units. FFBE is over.

I became a gambling addict over a game where there is no return, no reward, for spending my money.

I Flushed $16,000 down the toilet over a game.

TL;DR - Don't whale irresponsibly, the consequences WILL outweigh the investment.

TL;DR #2 - Some people are on this planet to be an example to others, don't be that Guy.

Edit -

Thank you all for your support and ideas. I have a lot of feedback on how I can improve the situation, I will update in some time after getting a few actions completed first.

I really appreciate each and every comment, I have read them all, and I plan to continue to read them to reinforce my resolve to keep my promise to my wife and to my family to remain open and honest.

Please be patient and OP will update.

Just an interesting (and depressing) tale of how badly addictive mobile games are now.

[JimboM12]

that... was quite chilling. it was like some kind of horror story, one of those Lovecraft ones where the protag slowly loses his mind.

this is why i only really use my phone for youtube or netflix and the games that don't make me feel like i have to buy anything to have fun with it or that have the cost upfront, my list:

fallout shelter
walking dead no mans land
star wars force arena
pokemon go
stranger things
egg inc
seedship
the trese brothers games
pocket mortys

for you addictive types, a few of these have purchasable things but if you play them in chunks you'll never feel like you need them.

[Ozyton]

So basically stick with games that you can buy at full price that don't try to squeeze more money out of you. Simple concept, but in practice not so easy as we've seen time and time again.

Just an interesting (and depressing) tale of how badly addictive mobile games are now.

I don't think the problem here is the addiction (which can lead to its own problems, as he mentions that he still spends time with his family which would not be the case with severe game addiction) but the 'gambling' portion of the game/addiction. "How could I spend so much and not get what I want!" he says several times in the post. That there is the problem. At some point the game should say 'yeah this guy is going to ruin his life just give him the drop already' or just have the option to spend a certain amount to outright buy the thing. Yes, it's still kinda sleazy to spend so much money to outright buy something so insignificant but at least you remove the gambling portion from it.

Personally, I've spent a fair bit of money on "free to play" games, Warframe and Planetside 2. I don't believe I've spent more than 1000 dollars total over the course of several years. Guess it's a lot easier to spend your money on a game when you're carrying it with you 24/7

[Sirian]

Uh.

I tried a couple of these mobile games, a few years ago, and never really had fun with it. It was mindless and bland.

I don't see how anyone can play these seriously, even to the point of spending serious money on it. Back when I was playing Black Desert Online, I played for 2 months before spending a whole $20 in the cash shop.

With that said, the value we attach to things is a very relative and personal thing, for instance some people would spend millions on a painting, whereas some would just buy the poster if they liked the picture. In my opinion, the worst thing here is that he spent money he didn't have. If he had the money and could rationalize spending it on a silly game, because he didn't have anything better to do with it, why not. I don't think that it would be anyone's business, including his wife and kids.

Going into debt though, is another matter entirely.

As for me, to get me to spend that much on a game, it would have to be the best fucking game ever created. Or I would have to be seriously rich.

[Majestic7]

You can't be rational about addiction, because addiction is not rational. In the case of gambling and mobile gaming, think of it as exploits using bugs inside your brains. Our brains are a machine created by evolution and plenty of backdoors are left open. These backdoors can bypass the rational mind and lure us into doing things that are unwise and even completely senseless. Gambling - like those coin slot machines - are designed to exploit these weaknesses. They give just the right amount of reward for the spent money to keep people going. People vulnerable to these exploits are then overtaken completely. These games are not designed like your typical game, but like coin slot machine, to feed on these addictions.

This is a shitty thing because the same design principle is spreading everywhere, just look at the loot box saga with the new EA games. Even social media applications like SnapChat use the same addiction principles to create artificial needs using these brain bugs. I can't help but wonder at the hypocricy where heroin is illegal, but addictive gambling okay and even under special governmental blessing in some places.

[ukulele]

I would argue that while the "exploits" as you call them might be in everyone, most of the people are safe from them.  This games profit from a vulnerable but very profitable minority.

[Ozyton]

This games profit from a vulnerable but very profitable minority.

Often referred to as "whales"

[NullForceOmega]

Targeting the so called 'whales' is also pretty unsustainable as an actual business model, tremendously profitable short-term, but ultimately self-destructive to the industry as a whole.  After all, there are only so many 'whales' to go around, and even if there are an adequate number of them, they have a finite amount of money (then you get into credit and all kinds of other nastiness).  There are obviously a lot of potential arguments regarding the exact impact of 'whale fishing' in this context, but it is almost certainly a net negative in the long term.

[umiman]

Yup, the entire gacha industry makes me want to throw up. Especially when it gets its hands on a property I actually like. Such as Fire Emblem or Fate Grand Order.

Ignoring all the gambling, the extremely high prices, the sabotaging, the psychological warfare, etc. etc.

The worst part is all the fanbase that are in denial. The hopelessly addicted addicts who refuse to admit they have a problem. It's the biggest reason why these guys can get away with it, because any time someone criticizes them, they go "NO IT'S NOT PAY 2 WIN!" "I HAVE A REAL JOB SO I THINK IT'S FINE IF I SPEND $50 A MONTH ON THIS GAME AS I CAN AFFORD IT" etc. etc. etc.

It's really disgusting what these games does to people.

[Frumple]

Eh, for what it's worth, dropping 50 a month on gacha or whatever's probably healthier than on beer or cigs or some shit. As unhealthy (fiscal and otherwise) habits go there's worse ones.

... not to say it's a good one or somethin', or something I'd indulge in myself. I don't touch casino style crud with my own money ever, never mind something that won't even manage to potentially result in food money.

Targeting the so called 'whales' is also pretty unsustainable as an actual business model, tremendously profitable short-term, but ultimately self-destructive to the industry as a whole.  After all, there are only so many 'whales' to go around, and even if there are an adequate number of them, they have a finite amount of money (then you get into credit and all kinds of other nastiness).  There are obviously a lot of potential arguments regarding the exact impact of 'whale fishing' in this context, but it is almost certainly a net negative in the long term.

I mean... questionably? You have a similar targeting scheme (and related, if at times distinct, slate of psych levers involved) with general fraud/confidence scams, and as far as I'm aware the overall "market" for that bullshit has mostly either sustained or grown over the last few decades, even as means of shutting it down have become more developed.

It might not be the most amazing growth in the world or have the most room for new competition (and, frankly, to a significant degree that's probably a goddamn good thing, insofar as the continued existence of any of this general region of psychological predation can be considered good), but the thing with aiming for a demographic of that sort is that even if some of them buy themselves into nonexistence market wise, there's always going to be the next generation (either of new fish, or old fish getting senile enough to get hooked). Any particular one might have a finite amount of money but the consumer supply innit static, y'know? Church here and there bankrupting isn't doing much to stop the religious circuit from being one of the largest fraud markets in the world, and so on.

Basically so far as net negative goes, there tends to be an equilibrium point, so far as I'm aware. Non-vital market is generally going to have some portion of it be a drag on the total market, but it's pretty rare that portion actually grows enough to outright crash or shrink the whole. Just slow it down or depress net output (well, and ruin the occasional life here and there, of course). I would seriously not put any hopes in the kind of monetization schemes that leads to those whales being fished doing too much in the way of self-destructing, heh. Least on the whole.

[sambojin]

Wow. That's a lot. I think the most I've ever spent on a game was on Robots.IO. I got myself 6 months of premium for about 30 dollars and got a few others a one month premium thing for a couple of guild mates. So about $60-70 all up. On a mobile game. This gave us nothing gameplay wise, just a cosmetic paint scheme. Since a fair few people did this, the Dev ended up giving that paint scheme feature to EVERYBODY for free, which was cool as. I was happy to support the game in its early stages, because I liked the game style (top down mecha combat) and the actual gameplay model was entirely balanced and fair (everyone gets everything from day 1, so there's no in-game power advantage to spending money).

Other than a few other purchased or try-before-you-buy games (Reigns, Virexian, KoDP, and the Trese Brothers stuff, $2-5 each), some quick/paid unlocks (Soul Knight characters, Polytopia races, Fist of Truth premium month for quick card unlocks, all about $10-15 worth each), the only game I've paid any substantial coin for was Event Horizon (A Star Control 2/Stardrive 1 combat mash-up). I got a little bit of in-game currency ($4), decided I liked it the game a lot, and went the whole "support the developer, get a nice mid-range ship" thing. Due to weirdness of Google pricing, this normally $10-12US option was $30 Aussie. I still went for it, and have been pretty happy with the purchase. First ship I got to level 100, and I've put probably 50 hours or more into the game all up, so I feel I got my money's worth. Could have done the same thing for free with other ships, but I knew exactly what I was getting, and made the decision on the "support the developer" side, rather than the p2w side (although it IS an awesomely powerful ship, it's essentially a single player game, so no biggy). I actually feel like it made the game a lot more enjoyable, because it let me try a heap of stuff out, and got me over the initial grind hurdle easily. Fortunately, the purchase is kept if I restart, or switch phones, yet I'm not sure if I'd use my mega ship again next time around. But it was the perfect thing to learn with and dump parts onto, so I like it. It made me a better player, by giving me the hand holding I needed to get to the later stages. Worth $30? Nope. But I still feel like 50hrs+ of gameplay was worth the money, and it's one of those "actually free" to play games, so I don't mind supporting the Dev anyway. One of the better pay-to-win options I've seen in a mobile game. It's not OP, just very powerful and flexible, and gets you to mid-late game content easily, while letting you try out all that content from your one-off purchase. Not quite an "I win!" button, but not too far from it, while not taking away the fun of the journey getting there (parts>ships in Event Horizon, so you'll still need to collect heaps of parts and fight a lot to make the ship truly powerful).


So I guess that's the point of this post. Only ever buy something when you know what you're getting for it (even if it seems expensive to others), or if you really want to support the developer and would be happy to do so with little to no reward anyway.

Hugging or hoping for pixels is never particularly satisfying. But I don't think I've ever made a purchase on mobile that I wasn't happy with, even when some were p2w, quick unlocks, or just throwing money at a dev for a project I liked.


And yes, sometimes I put my purchases into "rum costs at the pub" factors as well. If I think it'll give me significantly more happiness than the equivalent amount of rum, then it's probably worth it to me. Because otherwise I'd just go to the pub. But by the same token, you shouldn't be drinking two bottles of rum a day, so neither should you be buying heaps of crap on mobile. They both lead to some regrets, in both the short and long term. But we all waste money on something we enjoy, with not particularly good reasons for doing so.

[Folly]

To be fair, if that guy didn't have mobile games he almost definitely would have found a casino and lost a lot more money a lot faster, and had less fun doing it.

I play FFBE and have never spent a dime. I find the game to be quite entertaining, with a compelling story and gameplay reminiscent of the classic Final Fantasy era.

[sambojin]

Much of it is the hiding of it. Easy to do on mobile games. People often realize if someone has a drinking problem, a gambling problem, a drug problem, or even just a "buying fairly useless expensive crap" problem.

They often don't realize the extent of the problem, or the harm it's causing, but the person often can't entirely hide it from others.  "Oh, that Jeep? Yeah, that's for going camping." They may only go camping once every two years, but they had "reasons", and can't hide their purchase.

On phones, there's nothing to show for it, so it's easy to hide. And when you're trying to hide it from others, it's probably a problem. But who checks your phone for in-game purchases?

So, a bad addiction to have, because it can still cause huge financial damage that doesn't really give the person anything, but it's also not a visible problem to others. Until the financial hurt shows, and the deception is revealed.

[Majestic7]

Different addictions have different triggers. Someone who is vulnerable to getting addicted on dope might not get addicted to gambling or sex. Of course, there are addictive personality types who are shit out of luck with multiple active triggers, but they are a minority. The thing is, lots of people have a trigger to some addiction. That is why I think it is fucked up that so many industries are now moving towards actively fishing for addictions. Designing games and applications solely around addiction isn't much better than tobacco companies making cigarettes as addictive as possible. While programming doesn't kill people like tobacco does, I think the social effect of addictive games and addictive social media might be larger on the long run.

[Yoink]

Dumbass shouldn't a' gotten married and employed.
Then he would have had plenty of time to grind for all those miscellaneous vidya goodies like a civilised person.