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Author Topic: Monster Hunter World: Iceborne  (Read 52783 times)

nenjin

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #285 on: February 18, 2019, 01:32:16 pm »

Already got that but there's more to farm than slots to grow it. So.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
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When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #286 on: February 18, 2019, 01:48:29 pm »

You can do quests to expand it! It's great. But yes regular farming is still necessary :3

Anyway this game is really about unlocking additional Meowscular Chef cutscenes. Change my mind.
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Folly

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #287 on: February 18, 2019, 01:59:45 pm »

Diablos....just took a lot of resources and a few faints. I had to capture him because, honestly, the "I'm about to die" rage mode makes him an unbelievable pain in the ass. Even though I know capturing is ideal compared to slaying, I dunno, I prefer to slay. Capturing to avoid the end of the fight somehow feels like cheating, most other bosses once you've gotten them down that far the fight is usually in the bag. Not with him. He can two shot you pretty easily even right near the end of the fight. You also gotta time your rolls and dodges really well in conjunction with sprinting, because he's so fucking big that if you dodge from the center line of his charge, you're going to get hit more often than not. Really he's just one of those fights you have to do everything right; get a little sloppy when trying to avoid his ground pop up attack, you're going to get wrecked. Snooze a little bit when he's about to emerge from the sandfall, you're gonna get wrecked. Spend half the fight chasing him across the arena and end up doing little to no damage and taking plenty of hits? You're gonna get wrecked or run out of time.

You're using screamer pods when he does his pop up attack, right?
Trouble dodging? Learning to Superman Dive will save your life.
Have fun learning Black Diablos~
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Nighthawk

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #288 on: February 18, 2019, 02:21:17 pm »

I'm, uh, gonna spoiler this since there's a ton of text. I wanted to reply to every damn thing and I apologize if I'm too long-winded:

Spoiler: Loads of text (click to show/hide)

Anywho, glad to see you're enjoying the game and getting the hang of its systems. The process of learning how to play MH really is one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had in gaming, and it's the reason that I'm now a loyal fan, despite Capcom sometimes making stupid decisions (we had to wait HOW LONG to get Generations Ultimate in the west?!) with the series.
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nenjin

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #289 on: February 18, 2019, 03:00:47 pm »

Diablos....just took a lot of resources and a few faints. I had to capture him because, honestly, the "I'm about to die" rage mode makes him an unbelievable pain in the ass. Even though I know capturing is ideal compared to slaying, I dunno, I prefer to slay. Capturing to avoid the end of the fight somehow feels like cheating, most other bosses once you've gotten them down that far the fight is usually in the bag. Not with him. He can two shot you pretty easily even right near the end of the fight. You also gotta time your rolls and dodges really well in conjunction with sprinting, because he's so fucking big that if you dodge from the center line of his charge, you're going to get hit more often than not. Really he's just one of those fights you have to do everything right; get a little sloppy when trying to avoid his ground pop up attack, you're going to get wrecked. Snooze a little bit when he's about to emerge from the sandfall, you're gonna get wrecked. Spend half the fight chasing him across the arena and end up doing little to no damage and taking plenty of hits? You're gonna get wrecked or run out of time.

You're using screamer pods when he does his pop up attack, right?
Trouble dodging? Learning to Superman Dive will save your life.
Have fun learning Black Diablos~

Ah. Screamer pods. Had em, remember them being mentioned, never thought to use them. I figure that's the way most of the big bads go. They all have a thing to neutralize the biggest PITA parts of them. However I've really been avoiding fight spoilers where possible because I want the satisfaction of finding it out for myself if I can.

And yeah, I saw videos of the Black D. Nothing like an additional charge immediately after the pop up attack. :X

Quote
I won't deny that these moments exist, but if they're happening consistently enough to get him carted (fainted, killed, whatever term ya'll use), I guarantee it's because he's getting greedy. Monster Hunter is not the kind of game where you can attack attack attack and then just press the dodge button when an attack comes in and get away. This ain't no Bayonetta. When you attack, you dedicate yourself to that attack, come what may. Until he understands that and starts to respect the monster instead of thinking he's an invincible super-soldier, he's gonna have a bad time.

He's played Dark Souls so I think he understands the risk of greed. More his complaints are:

a) Monsters literally turning on a dime as you put a heal potion to your lips.
b) Two shot combos from monsters that, if you get the first hit and the AI is going to continue, you're pretty much fucked.
c) The inordinate amount of time you waste dealing with flying monsters. (Again, Dual Blades.)
d) The chasing.
e) Monster roars that, if they don't actually disrupt something important, just delay you.

For me, I've learned that when the AI sees you heal and starts coming after you, it often times it so you can _just_ barely dodge out of the way as you complete your drink. It's happened so consistently now it seems planned.

I've learned that two shots happen but pretty rarely. It's just the window for avoiding the 2nd or 3rd attack is very, very small. And sometimes the AI just does go ballistic.

Flying monsters, I've just learned to use the correct tools and/or try to use the environment as much as possible. I still agree that flying bastards are annoying, but when you have 6 Flash Pods to burn it's usually enough for most fights. Also the long sword can often tag airborne enemies with the overhead attack so at least I feel like I'm doing something. Dual Blades don't really have that recourse.

Chasing I've just learned is part of the hunt. I try and get immersed in the idea. No animal that started a fight and took serious damage is going to stay and slug it out, not in RL. So while it is reeaaaaallllly annoying to have to chase them down a 3rd or 4th time, at least it's within the theme of the game and I can accept that.

Roars are just flavor, for the most part. Except for the occasional time monsters use it interrupt your heals or a big combo.

Kinda doubt I'll go play the older Monster Hunters though. Plenty to do here and I'm not sure the value to me in retreading the series. Also I think none of the others are on PC?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 03:07:08 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #290 on: February 18, 2019, 03:51:13 pm »

Use Insect Glaive and never bring the wrong weapon to anything ever again.

Also have you guys seen the "deliberately horrible character customization" scene in monster hunter world? It's is expansive.
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nenjin

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #291 on: February 18, 2019, 03:55:06 pm »

Link?
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Nighthawk

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #292 on: February 18, 2019, 04:07:37 pm »

Kinda doubt I'll go play the older Monster Hunters though. Plenty to do here and I'm not sure the value to me in retreading the series. Also I think none of the others are on PC?
Correct, 4U and Generations Ultimate are not on PC. The value in retreading the series, however, is evident in the massive amount of content. Seriously. World is a wading pool compared to the Olympic-sized pool of monsters that is Generations Ultimate. We're talking 31 (give or take a few?) large monsters in World vs. 93 in Generations Ultimate. And more monsters means more armor sets, more weapons, more everything.

Once you reach late game of World you might start to see what I'm talking about. There aren't that many real challenges in the endgame outside of the extra stuff Capcom has added in updates, and many of those are, "Fight this monster but now it has higher HP and deals way more damage," which doesn't exactly form the most satisfying difficulty curve. I don't want to rag on World too much; it's the first in a new generation of MH games, but it's definitely got its shortcomings.

tl;dr - If you believe World is better than every previous game in every possible way, I'm afraid that's not quite true, and you should consider playing the older games to see all they have to offer.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #293 on: February 18, 2019, 04:11:43 pm »

Link?

Most of the REALLY funny/bad ones I suddenly can't find now.

Here's some.





EDITED BEFORE POSTING:
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
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FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
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nenjin

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #294 on: February 18, 2019, 04:24:52 pm »

Kinda doubt I'll go play the older Monster Hunters though. Plenty to do here and I'm not sure the value to me in retreading the series. Also I think none of the others are on PC?
Correct, 4U and Generations Ultimate are not on PC. The value in retreading the series, however, is evident in the massive amount of content. Seriously. World is a wading pool compared to the Olympic-sized pool of monsters that is Generations Ultimate. We're talking 31 (give or take a few?) large monsters in World vs. 93 in Generations Ultimate. And more monsters means more armor sets, more weapons, more everything.

Once you reach late game of World you might start to see what I'm talking about. There aren't that many real challenges in the endgame outside of the extra stuff Capcom has added in updates, and many of those are, "Fight this monster but now it has higher HP and deals way more damage," which doesn't exactly form the most satisfying difficulty curve. I don't want to rag on World too much; it's the first in a new generation of MH games, but it's definitely got its shortcomings.

tl;dr - If you believe World is better than every previous game in every possible way, I'm afraid that's not quite true, and you should consider playing the older games to see all they have to offer.

Yeah I've already gotten that impression. Then again, to reference Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2 had 1/3rd as many bosses as either Dark Souls 1 or 3. But at least half the bosses in Dark Souls 2 were a complete joke, versus pretty much every boss being meaningful and interesting in DS3. Not disagreeing with you per se, World does seems like it's going to devolve in to just fighting the same shit over and over again with way more HP and damage. But that will probably keep me occupied for another 200 hours. With how well World is doing (I've seriously never seen a game toots its own horn this much), I feel like it will continue to grow as well.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Ozyton

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #295 on: February 19, 2019, 08:43:52 pm »

A bit late, forgot to reply the other day, oh well.

Has your friend considered using the lance? Just about everything the monster does you can say "no, fuck you" and counter poke them. A monster roaring turns into free damage, you can still usually hit flying monsters if you forget your flash pods somehow, and if you've been using an armor set with Guard Up on it (I.E. Uragaan) then even laser beams and supernovas become more of an inconvenience than anything. I will say that playing like this tends to get rather monotonous because of the very limited moveset the lance offers compared to other weapon, and it might form bad habits like not superman diving away from supernovas or dive bombs or sheathing weapon to use mantles and other items. I've actually done fights where I've wailed on the monster long enough to go into red sharpness before they move to the next area and I have to force myself to stop fighting for a second and sharpen, and I actually bring smoke bombs specifically for that so I don't have to zone out of an area first. I still have a habit of not using special items on a hunt...

Otherwise I have no weapon specific advice to offer since I prefer heavier hitting weapons to the more mobile ones.

Is your friend using chain armor still? I remember playing through the game roughly 3 or 4 times with friends and each time they were still using chain armor (at level 1 no less) towards the middle/end of Low Rank and were complaining about being 1-shot constantly. He shouldn't be using lengthy combos (Demon Dance for dual swords) when the monster is running around and fighting, those moves are for when the monster is knocked over, trapped, or stunned. If you're having trouble knocking a monster over a lot of them get knocked down faster if you aim for their feet instead of their head. Heads will usually cause a flinch but won't typically actually knock a monster over faster than aiming for the legs. The problem is the feet are typically not a weak spot so you won't trigger skills like Weakness Exploit/Tenderizer.

Speaking of monsters that take a long time to fight, I've been trying to get Teostra Gamma armor set while he's still available, and the hunts typically last 20 minutes when I solo it. It would be faster if I played in a group but none of my friends are high enough HR to do the quest and doing it with randoms it's very likely they will all die and waste time anyways. I've also been fighting Lavasioth for the past few days to get the rare feystone drops using a fire lance and in a full group that takes roughly 10 minutes. I would use gunlance but I've been carted more times than I prefer, but the shelling does go straight through armor which would make the fight quicker if I didn't cart.

For number of monsters: the lack of variety is really noticeable but most everything else in the game (but not all) is either a straight up improvement or just a sidegrade compared to 4u (I have only played a tiny bit of Gen so I can't really compare it). Yeah, the weapon design is pretty lackluster, but the armor design feels just as tacky as it's ever been. Dozens of quality of life improvements you've probably heard about countless times. Astera's layout isn't as good as Moga from 3U or Val Habar from 4U (which were both essentially corridors with everything you need condensed a few feet from each other). (E: One thing I am glad isn't in this game, and this might sound REALLY weird, but I'm glad there aren't any 'styles' for the weapons. That might seem weird, but we already seem pretty powerful as it is with how the weapons have been updated over the generations, and adding 'super moves' on top of that seems a bit far out there even for this game... at least that's how I felt when I played Gen.)

I do miss the variety from the older games. MHW feels like there's maybe 4 or 5 base monster types or skeleton/animation sets which makes a lot of them feel quite samey. I'm hoping things like Lagombi make a return, and Zamtrios would be a pleasant surprise by variety alone. Since it's all but confirmed that Nargacuga is making a return perhaps we'll also see Barroth, or maybe even Zinogre (another fan favorite), and Tigrex. Brachydios would be a pleasant surprise as well, but he's a similar style to Barroth but even then his attacks are quite different enough to make him seem like his own thing. If they managed to get Leviathans to function with their animation system that would probably make me the happiest of all. Najarala, Agnagtor, Lagiacrus, and Mizitsune to name the most popular, but also Nibelsnarf and Gobul which were both monsters you could literally use your fishing line to fish them out of the water/ground to stun them. Or how about, hear me out... Rajang? That's not to mention all of the elder dragons you could bring about. I still feel that Jhen/Dah'ren Mohran were the best 'gimmick' fights in the series that I've personally played, a lot better than Zorah Magdaros in terms of enjoyability (Zorah Magdaros has great spectacle and fighting a monster on top of a monster is a great concept, but they don't really do anything with the idea besides waste your time). There's a surprising amount of variety in a game about punching monsters to death, and I believe the way the game doesn't take itself super seriously or try to base itself in hard science really helps with that.

E: If you want to bring more unconventional monsters back you could have things like Duramboros, Daimyo Hermitaur/Shogun Ceanataur, Nerscylla, Seltas/Seltas Queen... I forgot about Tetsucabra but he would be fun to see again.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 09:05:27 pm by Ozyton »
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nenjin

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #296 on: February 20, 2019, 11:10:09 am »

Dual Blades are probably the only thing he'd use. He is a mobility guy, likes his weapons and stuff edgy and fast and cool.

He's been building new armor and reinforcing it so I don't think that's the issue per se.

Mostly he just lacks patience and doesn't find the process of failing a hunt to learn something all that pleasant. The way enemies telegraph isn't that obvious, the AI being trained to dick you over sometimes, the lack of obvious feedback, the fact monsters are giant bundles of HP with no HP bar so you don't know how well the fight is progressing...

And to be fair, I spent a lot of time in the early game just getting comfortable with my weapon. About 4x as much as he has. I get the goodness with my weapon but I think he's still trying to understand his.

MHW definitely requires a decent frustration threshold from the player.

FWIW he says there's a lot to like about the game. But having gotten up through Rotten Vale he still says he's reserving final judgment on it. Which, in my mind, is pretty indicative of how he actually feels already.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 11:50:20 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #297 on: February 20, 2019, 01:22:13 pm »

Yeah that's most of the way through the main story portion of the game, that is,
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
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FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

Ozyton

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #298 on: February 20, 2019, 04:40:07 pm »

Perhaps he should slow down his combat a bit since it sounds like he enjoys being super fast. He doesn't need to speedrun the hunts if he's just starting, I don't even speedrun hunts myself because that's not necessarily why I play. What I suggest is treat the game like a turn based game. It could just be how long I've been playing but the monster telegraphs seem pretty clear to me unless you're standing directly underneath the monster so the camera is blocked by their body. Most enemies follow a sort of pattern: first they'll target someone, and do an attack animation based on how far away the target is, sometimes they'll even walk/fly to close the distance if they're just out of range but not far enough away to do a charging attack of sorts. Once their attack is finished they will either follow up with another attack or they will target someone else. and repeat. Learning what the attack animations look like (specifically the end of them so you know when another attack is coming) is pretty useful. The exceptions are flinches on certain monsters who have counterattacks (Odogaron and Teostra come to mind) and monsters becoming exhausted (who will just stand there catching their breath instead of attacking).

I forget if I mentioned this but at first he should be eating at the canteen every quest and choosing the chef's choice platter to get the most HP possible. Later on you'll use max potions instead but that usually requires farming Mandragoras.

Sometimes just standing in the right place can be the difference between getting cheapshotted and avoiding such a fate. Does he typically target the monster's head? I bet he does, and if he's standing directly in front of its face then that's the most dangerous spot to stand. Try standing either at a diagonal or to the side while still being able to hit the head and it's slightly safer. When trying to avoid monsters move in diagonals or perpendicular, since a lot of ranged attacks don't track after they've targeted you so moving diagonally will make the attacks miss, don't even need to serpentine or anything like that. Since he's using DB it's possible that he keeps running out of stamina and doesn't have any left to dodge with. Make sure he's eating steaks/canteen meals/rations to keep his stamina at 150 throughout the hunt, and if he has access to them dash juice or wiggli liches (those slugs found on fallen tree trunks) are practically mandatory if he wants to use Demon Mode all the time.

Not all that much to say about monsters being big bundles of HP. I usually compare this game to things like Warframe and such, except in Warframe and its ilk all the enemy HP is spread across the entire mission while in Monster Hunter the entire health pool is crammed into a single enemy that hits like a 6 ton monster (for some reason, hmmm).

nenjin

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Re: Monster Hunter World
« Reply #299 on: February 20, 2019, 04:51:37 pm »

He's been consuming all the tips videos so I think he's got the fundamentals down. It may just be that it's not for him. Then again, he whined and complained and bitched and moaned and lambasted Dark Souls for weeks before something clicked and he started to enjoy himself. Now he sings the game's praises. I dunno, when it comes to "tough games", some gamers need to find their niche at their own pace, and have their freakouts in private, and they make for poor companions until they reach that point. Could be the case with him.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti
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