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[Failbird105]

So uh, anyone have thoughts on my infiltrator design?

[SamSpeeds]

Seems cool enough, but we have access to Actual Human DNA and cloning technology. I don't see why we wouldn't just clone a human and modify THAT, if you don't also want enhanced strength or something. I guess being a shapeshifting octopus would given them increased escape and espionage abilities?

Also:
Vehicle Fabrication Facilities

A state of the art complex devoted to the creation and deployment of UFO's and other tech. Utilizing our powerful nanomachines and mastery of mechanics, we can easily and quickly craft delicate materials with the precision only known to microscopic builders assembling microscopic particles, and mass assemble ship hulls with complex, efficient, and versatile machinery.

Alternatively, we could just do "Fabrication Facilities" and potentially gain EP as well.

[piratejoe]

Personally, I would like traditional thin men for their ability to spit poison, but otherwise, its good...And a reference to octodad.

I also support more Vehicle fabrication facilities.

[Failbird105]

Seems cool enough, but why have access to Actual Human DNA and cloning technology. I don't see why we wouldn't just clone a human and modify THAT, if you don't also want enhanced strength or something. I guess being a shapeshifting octopus would given them increased escape and espionage abilities?

Well I mean, yeah, it might even be a trivial design, but it feels almost like cheating to just make our own humans.
That and it has all the capabilities of an octopus still, and it also provides a good gateway to other things, such as tentacles, natural camouflage, and boneless creatures.

[SamSpeeds]

Ah, sorry, overlooked that. Certainly Nice. I don't really think it's cheaty to make our own humans, they'll likely find a way to screen for them anyway eventually, like a citywide DNA scanner or something.

[Failbird105]

While I think making our own humans is useful, I think that can wait, because it certainly won't get any harder, and we don't really get that much benefit to other designs from it.

Also, imagine just how useful a giant, intelligent mimic octopus with a plasma pistol can be in combat. You thought that was a wall? NO IT WAS AN ALIEN! You though you were walking on a floor? NOW YOU MUST FACE TENTACLES!
Where do you even shoot? The round bits? The flat bits? The tentacles, which ones? The ones holding its guns? The ones holding your guns? The ones holding you?

[SamSpeeds]

Auuugh I'm such a fool! Clearly that is a Very Good Boon, assuming they don't have integrated thermal cameras mounted on their rifles or something.

Here's an idea:

The Ungenk - EMP/Battle Coordination Creature

A spiderlike creature with a Massive Cranium. It has ten limbs, two being spindly arms rather than insectoid legs. It can grasp and hold a Plasma Pistol, but that's not it's purpose. It's purpose is advanced battlefield strategy, telepathic coordination, and the emitation of electromagnetic pulses to disable enemy technology and local electronics (so we can sneak around in the complete dark). The pulse is generated in the abdomen, and can be emited in a bubble like pulse, or directed in a half hemisphere through the use of Biological Farady Shielding built in to some parts of the chitin. (OK, it doesn't make much sense now, but I'll do some reading and patch this up later) Telepathy allows them to act as battlefield commanders, and their Massive Craniums allow them to outbrain like 10 human commanders at time. Also, they can climb around, have dark chitin, mandibles and can grasp so they'd make pretty cool and physically durable ambushers.

So, if we made this hypothetical unit or some other, and it had a UP cost similar to sectoids (probably higher since bigger and more abilities) would we be able to insert one into a squad of sectoids or whatever our infantry unit is at that point, without having to bring an entire unit of them? So like 9 sectoids 1 Ungenk or 9 sectoids one Thin Man etc etc

EDIT 2 to avoid Double Post:

Revision Option 1

Stealth Scout

An alternate form of the OG Small Scout, reshaped and upgraded to dodge radar and visual detection. We forsake our usual preference for featureless vessels and craft the hull to nullify, absorb, and allow radar to pass over it. The hull is coated in Optic Metamaterials, which allow it to become significantly more difficult to visually spot.

With a successful roll on this, they'd have to mostly resort to thermal imagery or something to spot us before we land until they evolve technologically.

And I'm gonna be honest with y'all fellas I have no idea how we are gonna revise some armor with no previous armor, unless revisions work waaay different in this game than they do in others (more "small design" than "revision") so the only way I see us getting armor this turn is revising it biologically onto Sectoids.

[sprinkled chariot]

May be our infiltrator can be some biohorror like THE THING

Also + 1 to nuke plan

[NUKE9.13]

I changed the two Meld containers to one Meld container and one Elerium Grenade, FYI. I figure the significantly higher chance of winning combat is worth a slightly reduced quantity of Meld.

I like the Octodad idea, although I feel compelled to point out that we don't have to base every species 100% off of Earth creatures. We presumably have gene banks containing the DNA of a wide variety of alien species. So Octodad could be, like, 80% alien, 20% Earth octopus.
Also, whilst I like it, I kinda like the idea of making a species that is good in combat as well. That, and I really like the idea of using masks.

With apologies to Failbird, my own take on mask-folk:

Mask-Men: Fresh from the gene banks, patched up with Earth creature DNA, the Mask-Men are ready to be unleashed on the world below. Part reptile, part insect, Mask-Men are cold-blooded, patient, and quick-witted. Their form is humanoid; two legs, two main arms (with a pair of useless vestigial arms on the torso). Their skin is half scales, half chitin, and all relatively resistant to small-arms fire- not immune, but enough to survive more than their fair share of punishment. Their hands (which have three fingers and an opposable thumb), and the back of their head, have a pale, smooth look, which could be mistaken for human skin by someone not paying all too much attention. They are relatively strong, certainly stronger than the average human, and their forearms possess a sharp natural blade, which combined with their slightly longer limbs, provides them a potent melee weapon.
The Mask-Men's titular mask is not, in fact, a mask, but an exoskeletal extrusion that covers their face with two interlocking plates, which is induced into growing into the shape of a mask- commonly mimicking the tragedy/comedy masks that Earthlings use to indicate the presence of their theatres, although other types of masks are also used. These ivory-coloured veneers, and custom-tailored suits, let Mask-Men operate in human society with only a few curious glances. When the time for infiltration is over, however, the 'masks' split open along the middle, and slide back against the head, revealing the horrifying face beneath- a gruesome insectile visage, featuring bug-eyes, mandibles, and all that good stuff.
At this point, the innocuous gentlemen become bloodthirsty monsters, as they leap forwards, tearing their suits, revealing their bladed forearms, cutting down their victims before gorging themselves on their flesh.
Mask-Men are moderately intelligent- enough to be capable of basic subterfuge. They possess a form of vocal chords, letting them speak in a chittering, insect-like voice. Their capacity for the Gift is limited, although not completely absent, though at present we have no techniques for them to employ (*Note, we might later revise a psi-glamour to enhance their infiltration abilities).
They should serve as acceptable infiltrators, and capable combatants, although they do not excel at either.

[Failbird105]

I like the Octodad idea, although I feel compelled to point out that we don't have to base every species 100% off of Earth creatures. We presumably have gene banks containing the DNA of a wide variety of alien species. So Octodad could be, like, 80% alien, 20% Earth octopus.

True, but I want to get the most out of our DNA token, that and I think it would make the design harder unnecessarily if we were to mash a bunch of things together rather than getting a solid, effective base with our Earth DNA and improving that with alien bits.

I kinda like the idea of making a species that is good in combat as well

Dude, it's a giant octopus with guns, how is that NOT effective in combat? Even past its ability to replicate humans, it has great stealth(powerful natural camouflage) for setting up ambushes, and is an amazing grappler(tentacles with suction cups) capable of both locking down and disarming enemies.
This design is the most important traits of both the thin man and seeker combined with a bit extra.
However since people keep saying that's somehow not good enough I can enhance them in a few ways.
edit: there, it now has higher raw strength, and also wields a plasma pistol side arm, even when its non-side arm is a plasma pistol.

[Shadowclaw777]

You forget one of the most important thing with designing a unit with multiple limbs, motor control. I'd imagine it would require extra investment just so you have a unit that can function with all its limbs so you can have "8 plasma pistols firing down range", however this investment could equally spent on just simply increasing the creature's intelligence. I'm just thinking that while it looks flashy, it's probably going to have some problem with trying to utilize its Arms in... effective manners.

I mean haven't you played the Octodad games , The Octupus has a really difficult time playing and utilizing its six arms for basic tasks. Imagine trying to have that many arms and trying to perform maneuvers like flanking and aiming, during the heat of combat. Basically a unit that would have that many functional with each a mind of its own, would probably be in the same difficulty of creating such a super-genius level of intellect for a sectoid or whatever species. The octopuses in the water can get away from this problem because they aren't constricted in the vertical dimension.

Your going to need a lot of nerves in its nervous system, a lot.

[NUKE9.13]

I like the Octodad idea, although I feel compelled to point out that we don't have to base every species 100% off of Earth creatures. We presumably have gene banks containing the DNA of a wide variety of alien species. So Octodad could be, like, 80% alien, 20% Earth octopus.

True, but I want to get the most out of our DNA token, that and I think it would make the design harder unnecessarily if we were to mash a bunch of things together rather than getting a solid, effective base with our Earth DNA and improving that with alien bits.

I'm not sure what ebbor intends with the DNA tokens, but I suspect that it is "add Earth bits to Alien DNA", not "add Alien bits to Earth DNA". I mean, your common or garden octopus is not a six-foot tall humanoid, is intelligent for an animal but not smart enough for our purposes, not very good at combat, and lives in the water. There are way more changes you need to make to an octopus to make it into what you want than there would be if you started with an alien and added octopus bits.
Mind you, I think that this is mostly relevant for fluff purposes, and won't make a huge difference to the outcome of the design.

I kinda like the idea of making a species that is good in combat as well

Dude, it's a giant octopus with guns, how is that NOT effective in combat? Even past its ability to replicate humans, it has great stealth(powerful natural camouflage) for setting up ambushes, and is an amazing grappler(tentacles with suction cups) capable of both locking down and disarming enemies.
This design is the most important traits of both the thin man and seeker combined with a bit extra.
However since people keep saying that's somehow not good enough I can enhance them in a few ways.
edit: there, it now has higher raw strength, and also wields a plasma pistol side arm, even when its non-side arm is a plasma pistol.

Ah, well, it was the lack of you hyping up its combat abilities in the proposal that confused me. Ebbor is not a mind-reader, if you want a feature, you need to ask for it. As it stands, it reads like a unit designed primarily for infiltration, that has some incidental combat value. You should add a paragraph describing why it is an effective fighter- "It's an octopus with guns" doesn't actually make it sound that potent. Describe its stealth abilities, the value of its tentacles in melee combat, and I could get on board with it.

You forget one of the most important thing with designing a unit with multiple limbs, motor control. I'd imagine it would require extra investment just so you have a unit that can function with all its limbs so you can have "8 plasma pistols firing down range", however this investment could equally spent on just simply increasing the creature's intelligence. I'm just thinking that while it looks flashy, it's probably going to have some problem with trying to utilize its Arms in... effective manners.

Boo this man. The XCOM setting is not hard sci-fi. Implausible creatures exist all the time. The Rule of Cool is an important determinant of what works or not. An octo-man sounds cool, and is sufficiently plausible, therefore it will work.

[Failbird105]

Strategy
NUKE's 'Let's All Go To Egypt': (4) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Sprinkled Chariot

Shadowclaw's 'Screw people who like Niles and Robots': (1) Shadowclaw777

Piratejoes "Portugal": (1) Piratejoe

Noticed Sprinkled Chariot voted on a plan.

Also, updated the Hugh-Mann with a detailed description of combat capability.

As for your Masked Men NUKE, I'd be okay with them, if you didn't call them Reavers. As it is that name puts them just over the border into the two designs being irreconcilable.
I also feel like our infiltrators "wearing" very obvious masks is quite self defeating, it means they can't actually infiltrate because they are naturally suspicious in most environments.
Note how pretty much all of the physical oddities with Thin Men where easily concealed by sunglasses and a suit, they look completely ordinary unless you pay really close attention.

[NUKE9.13]

As for your Masked Men NUKE, I'd be okay with them, if you didn't call them Reavers. As it is that name puts them just over the border into the two designs being irreconcilable.
I also feel like our infiltrators "wearing" very obvious masks is quite self defeating, it means they can't actually infiltrate because they are naturally suspicious in most environments.
Note how pretty much all of the physical oddities with Thin Men were easily concealed by sunglasses and a suit, they look completely ordinary unless you pay really close attention.

Ah, fair enough. Removed the Reaver name.
As for the masks being suspicious... I mean, yes, sort of. But I'm assuming the world operates on a kind of fiction-logic where NPCs ignore things that are a little bit out of place. And, I mean, if you saw a bunch of dudes wearing masks IRL, you'd think "Those are some weird dudes", but not "ALIENS!!", so it isn't that big of a giveaway.
I'll admit, though, that part of the reason I like the masks is that I like giving things handicaps, rather than make them perfect in every way. I always figure that if you suggest a perfect design, the GM is gonna be looking for flaws to stick on it for game balance purposes anyway, so might as well save time and build in a few.

[Failbird105]

Ah, fair enough. Removed the Reaver name.
As for the masks being suspicious... I mean, yes, sort of. But I'm assuming the world operates on a kind of fiction-logic where NPCs ignore things that are a little bit out of place. And, I mean, if you saw a bunch of dudes wearing masks IRL, you'd think "Those are some weird dudes", but not "ALIENS!!", so it isn't that big of a giveaway.
I'll admit, though, that part of the reason I like the masks is that I like giving things handicaps, rather than make them perfect in every way. I always figure that if you suggest a perfect design, the GM is gonna be looking for flaws to stick on it for game balance purposes anyway, so might as well save time and build in a few.

Well yes, but at the same time unless we never use them for ANYTHING espionage related other than recruitment then people are going to get suspicious of strange men wearing masks showing up in their cities before bad things happen, and they won't be able to infiltrate any location more secure than public areas without drawing attention. It's quite a large handicap to have.