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[Strongpoint]

Really people.

If you can not agree on a what a certain design means, clarify that by writing it in big friendly letters or something. No need to eviscerate one another.

Well, we have 4 vs 3 and I don't think it is gonna change. Is roll incoming?

[Strongpoint]

I suspect it is too late for new proposals because either update is in the works or votes won't change in time, but I have nothing productive to do on January first, so... I am trying a hybrid offer

X-Com base Brazil
X-Com base South is divided in two parts. The first one is mostly underground and hidden in jungles. It has  workshops focused on producing aircrafts and weapon for them, a small lab for testing alien samples before delivering to Europe, barracks for a garrison.

The second part is located within military air base in few hundreds km away. Instead of building underground hangars, X-COM uses existing infrastructure of the base, using natural aerial traffic as a way to hide its presence. In the same way supplies from the jungle delivered in Brazilian military trucks. Airbase's radar and ground to air defense are upgraded with X-COM tech. X-COM unit is stationed there to be ready to defend the ally or be delivered to a mission in a Skyranger


While I think that going both for workshops and airbase is... excessive. This way looks easier to construct than Happery version and it may fool aliens who may destroy less important part of the base. Or force them to do two missions for striking both. As I said earlier keeping factory and Airbase in one space is bad.

Happerry's Argentina Outpost (4): Happerry, Chiefwaffles, Stabby, Blood Librarian
X-Com base South (3): strongpoint, Cnidaros, roseheart

Whatever, it is too late and I doubt that anyone who voted for Happery's version gonna switch.

[Chiefwaffles]

But that just seems like Happerry's proposal, but with the hangars aboveground in a standard military base?

I don't really see how that makes anything easier. Sure, we don't have to make underground hangars, but that's not especially hard anyways. But then we'd have to retrofit their airbase to work with our unique craft, manage logistics, and somehow find a way to keep civilians (and by extension, aliens) from seeing our aircraft land and take off from that base. And doing basically two smaller bases together seems like it'd add some degree of complexity.
Sure, if our aircraft looked like regular airplanes and didn't come back battle damaged, we could maybe hide them under existing aerial traffic. But as it stands, our stuff would practically be a glowing neon sign that says "INVADE HERE, ALIENS". Sure, the aliens would have to attack both mini-bases, but attacking either one would cripple the overall functionality; why not hide everything instead of just some parts?

[Strongpoint]

I hardly believe in "hide" when you can look from the orbit where Ravens come back after a successful mission.

I fail to see how it is complex to have another type of jet on a military base in a separate hangar(s) with most (or all) work done by not base personal but guys who pretend to be X-com personnel. I fail to see how using an existing runaway doesn't make it easier. I fail to see how it is equally hard to upgrade air-defense and build one from scratch.

As for crippling, completely fixable by a revision or even new design benefiting from surviving part (also I like the spirit assuming that we auto-lose any attack on our base)

I could say more but there are too many repeating arguments

[Strongpoint]

Not exactly a battle report but...

.....
I was told that I'll be transferred to some top-secret international unit. Darn. I hoped to be assigned to the new nuclear carrier.
.....
I arrived to the place. They say they are... special unit created for fighting aliens. They looked way too serious to assume that this is some kind of a joke
....
I am going for a test flight tomorrow. I will be the first to fly some new prototype of an "aircraft unlike no others". I don't believe they have anything better than American Airforce
....
I was wrong. I was so wrong. This bird... Raven. It is a masterpiece. I couldn't even imagine an aircraft like this.
.....
So... It starts....
......
I returned from my first mission. That sucker entered our atmosphere above South Africa and didn't even know what killed him. I was so happy to return to the base with a success only to learn that Mitchell didn't come back. He was evaporated by a plasma shot. Furthermore I was told that land mission in Nigeria was a failure. Darn!
....
Another one! Now in Japan. I lead a wing of two.
....
My wingman did a great job and shot down their fighter with one well placed shot. I scored my second victory by ending the misery of a bandit that tried to take off fleeing from our not soft guys.
....
We are doing some serious training for ground support. I am tired to hear "Be careful. We need examples of enemy tech" Tired! Eggheads should know that this is a war. Useless idiots.
.....
I take my words back. They are not useless. That SMART missile is a nice toy. How they develop weapon systems that quickly?
......
Another mission. Those alien cowards now move in groups
......
It was a disaster.  That thing... That maneuver... How!? Poor Ivan had no chance. Miguel went second after their landers joined the fight. I managed to eject just after I unloaded all my missiles. I was sure that I'll take out at least one of them... but no.
......
I am ordered to stay in South America. They want to build an airfield here. I fail to understand why waste effort and not use one of many airfields that local airforces use. Hey, maybe we could even get some of their birds to help. I would feel far safer with a dozen or two of good old F-16s covering my ass. But my bosses are obsessed with secrecy.

[stabbymcstabstab]

You do realize how fucking fast the Raven is right? it's suppose to be the fast human craft in existence and not to mention a Raven appears to have a at least twice the operational range of anything else in existence. and it still sucks against their UFOs any other jet we bring up that isn't purpose built is going to either die before it can do anything or simply be outran by them.

[Strongpoint]

You do realize how fucking fast the Raven is right? it's suppose to be the fast human craft in existence and not to mention a Raven appears to have a at least twice the operational range of anything else in existence. and it still sucks against their UFOs any other jet we bring up that isn't purpose built is going to either die before it can do anything or simply be outran by them.

What is the cause and purpose of this post?

[10ebbor10]

Design

Argentina Airbase Outpost
This outpost is designed to extend XCOM's presence away from Europe and allow for faster and better equipped responses to alien attacks in the Americas. Unlike the island base it is not fully underground, instead depending upon heavy jungle cover to keep it from being visible from orbit. However many facilities are extended underground for easier defensibility and more working area. As well they are all connected underground to avoid the need to carve potentially revealing paths between the buildings. While the outpost does have a basic laboratory facility for examination of battlefield gleanings, its primary function is to serve as a amplifier to XCOM's air wing capabilities, and as such the majority of its space is dedicated towards hangers for XCOM craft, workshops to maintain and build more craft, and a few barracks so the Skyrangers will have soldiers to deliver. If attacked, the base does have anti-air missile batteries as well as a defensive layout that will turn any attempt by the aliens to seize the base into a very nasty tunnel fight that will hopefully give the rest of XCOM time to send help, but the Outpost's primary defensive measure is supposed to be stealth.

Difficulty : Very Hard (1 + 1 - 2) =0

Our engineering team has universally agreed than an airbase protecting the South American continent would provide major benefits. However, specific of the proposal exposed deep divides within the engineering teams, which when combined with local issues resulted in a complete deadlock. To make matters, the models that had been build for the various designs caught fire in a so far unexplained case of spontaneous combustion.

Spoiler: Technology (click to show/hide)

Vehicles

Raven (Interceptor) : Way beyond the bleeding edge of technology, the Raven is far beyond any other jet fighter ever build on Earth. With upgraded avionics, adjusted tracking, and advanced pulse detonation engines, the Raven is capable of pursuing even high speed alien craft. If needed, it can use it's avalanche missiles to shoot down any intruders.   Cost :   2  VP
      - Ground Combat Package : Replaces half of the Raven's Avalanche missiles with high tech air-to-ground SMART missiles

Skyranger (Troop Transport) : World's first supersonic troop transport. The Skyranger is high speed, heavily armored troop transport, capable of deploying and retrieving a single squad of soldiers in various situations. Cost : 1 VP    [1 Free Skyranger available]
 
Equipment

Basic XCOM Rifle : XCOM's standard rifle. Cutting edge, custom designed, yet still affordable. Part of standard equipment.
Cost : 0

XH-2 Railgun Rifle : An effective semi-automatic rifle. Fires a powerful railgun round with tremendous velocity and penetrative power. In addition, it's equipped with a smart SCOPE to allow it to identify enemy drone targets.
Cost : 1

Basic XCOM Grenade : A simple grenade. Activate, throw, explode. Part of standard equipment.
Cost : 0

BASIC XCOM PISTOL : A simple, highpower pistol. It packs a pretty heavy punch, making it an effective if chalkenging sidearm Part of standard equipment.
Cost : 0

Training Program

Rookie Training Program : A basic introduction to the entire Xcom project. The absolute minimum that any soldier needs to know to operate successfully at XCOM. Cost : 1 Unit Points.

NOTSOFTER training regimen : A hard, effective international training regime, that gives our soldiers the tools and capacity to deal with aliens. Trains forces to a standard marginally higher than that attained by most special force units Cost : 1 Unit Points.

Inter Agency Cooperation teams : As part of ties developed through the NOTSOFTER training regime, we now have the capability of drawing upon special force teams. They're not as well suited to fight aliens as we're however, and nations will object if we keep losing them. Cost 1 Unit Point    [SPECIAL : Can't use XCOM GEAR, No vehicle needed for deployment when used in North America or Europe]

Mission Profiles

Interception : A simple mission profile that focuses on intercepting an alien vessel as soon as it's detected, destroying it before it can do any damage to any innocent people.

Down and Capture : A more complicated mission profile that focuses on downing an alien vessel (or waiting for it to land), and then storming it with ground forces.

Combined Arms : A mission profile that integrates air and ground forces to storm UFO's, using aerial bombing, reconnaissance and strafing runs when available to take out enemy strongpoints or UFO armor.

XCOM Resources

Island Mountain HQ [An isolated, hidden underground base on a remote island in the Aegean]
Aereal reconnaissance program : A simple program that allows us to requisition drone reconnaissance on suspected UFO sites.

6 VP
3 UP
3 EP
1 VP token,

Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)

Africa
---> Egypt
---> South Africa
---> Nigeria

Asia
--->Australia
--->China
--->India
--->Japan

Europe
--->France
--->Germany
--->Russia
--->United Kingdom

North America
--->Canada
--->Mexico
--->United States

South America
--->Argentina
--->Brazil   X

RevisionPhase

First Month End : The war intensifies.  You receive one VP/UP/EP of choice, to use immediately.

Challenge : Write a (short) excerpt on any of the recent battles from any perspective.  (Reward : + 1 unrestricted token)

AABBCCDD

[stabbymcstabstab]

You do realize how fucking fast the Raven is right? it's suppose to be the fast human craft in existence and not to mention a Raven appears to have a at least twice the operational range of anything else in existence. and it still sucks against their UFOs any other jet we bring up that isn't purpose built is going to either die before it can do anything or simply be outran by them.

What is the cause and purpose of this post?

Last bit of your diary post, a pint of rum, bit of a hangover, and possiblly more rum combined with dealing a guy who thinks fireworks/gunshots all day is a great idea.

[Strongpoint]

Difficulty : Very Hard

Complexity - Yes, Happerry's base is more complex. But that's a good thing.

Sure, it was really unlucky (even normal design would give us nothing but experience), but that is not an excuse for going very hard when we are behind and can't afford such risks. We needed what for a usable base? 6+. Greed is bad

Now lets do a normal difficulty revision, OK?

[Chiefwaffles]

Bad rolls are bad, actually.

[Strongpoint]

No, I am not results oriented here. Should we get 8, I would still say that very hard was a bad risk and we were saved by a great roll.

Anyway past is the past. We need to save the situation somehow.

Black Raven
Black Raven is a simplified version of Raven. Engineers got a mission to make Raven cost two times less even if some performance sacrifices are required. It is mostly done by replacing complex components with simpler. Some parts are made smaller benefiting from new materials gained during XH project.

I expect a lot of flak in a form "revisions don't have to lower performance in some areas. It is a wrong way to do it in arms races" I don't want another round of arguing. I believe that reducing cost of something two times to 1VP is very hard. I believe that two slightly dumbed down ravens with 90% capability are still better than original Raven. If we roll exceptional we may simply get cheaper version with no drawbacks.

Other possible revisions I consider viable; Remote controlled version of Raven, Raven with alien alloyed engine, Avalanche upgrade, stealth upgrade for Skyranger, aerial railgun, arming Skyranger for self defense against aerial targets.

[Madman198237]

I think you're blind, strongpoint.

We were specifically warned that a base design would not be an easy thing to do, and here it is---it wasn't an easy thing to do.

[Strongpoint]

We were specifically warned that a base design would not be an easy thing to do, and here it is---it wasn't an easy thing to do.

And this is why I wanted to go for a simple base without large workshops and small labs. I think it would be hard and... result would be exactly the same but result is irrelevant. I even wrote that I expect it to work on 4+ implying hard.

[Happerry]

Railgun Raven Refit
This Raven refit is focused on only one thing. Replacing some of the missile pylons the raven currently has with two mounts for an anti-craft railgun useful against the UFOs that have been being faced so far as well as adding the needed power supplies and ammo storage spots to actually fire them. While this might decrease the amount of missiles a raven can carry, it allows them to use the mentioned railguns in air to air combat, thusly ignoring whatever jammed our missiles last time.


On another note, isn't that the second 2 we've rolled this game? The dice need some reeducation on probabilities or something.

Also, Strongpoint, I still don't see how you can believe that sticking top secret fancy stuff into a public airbase while still keeping it a secret and trying to use national planes as cannon fodder and setting up a pilot academy wouldn't have been just as difficult. But whatever, we can redo my base later, for now we need a planes upgrade to counter whatever form of ECM the UFOs showed off last turn and may have upgraded.