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[Chiefwaffles]

Also I just recently posted a revision we can do very soon that needs the tokens you’re wasting to work. Investigatory Units.

[Blood_Librarian]

Design: HOP-LITE Modular Battle-Plate

HOP-LITE MBP's core system consists a set of specialized magnets, straps, and webbings that allows for a soldier to completely customize their protective equipment with the assistance of our resident engineering staff while also allowing for a comprehensive and easy-to-modify set of equipment to be attached to various hardpoints on the soldier's armor. The end result is a set of Alien Alloy plate armor that can vary in thickness in certain areas while housing additional equipment such spare magazines, grenades, and other tactical equipment.

All HOP-LITE plates are fabricated using Alien alloys, and although they are on average thicker then our old plate armor, they are both lighter and stronger than our previous kit, and a soldier may choose to specify thicker or thinner plates in various areas as the armor is fitted for them by the tailors and "blacksmiths" that program the rapid production systems that make these sets of armor.

A soldier may be able to equip any particular extremity with a heavy plate designed to take successive blows from an alien plasma rifle before melting, or all the way to a super-light plate that may only take a blow or two in return of being almost as if they were not wearing armor at all.

The Chest piece and the helmet are of special note, and although they are just as "customizable" in terms of thickness and construction, they are all equipped with several sets of electronics and equipment that come together to increase the survivability and lethality of our soldiers.

Number one, each MBP is equipped with a set of internal and external sensors designed to quantify and notify the appropriate parties of the user's condition. This is communicated both to their squad members and high command. In cases of emergency, the AUTO-VACI (Vascular Access Core Injector) may inject pain-killers, anesthetics and anti-trauma medication to keep the user alive in the cases of burn trauma. The system is designed specifically burns caused by the enemies plasma weaponry and is especially as effective in treatment. the system can be triggered to inject certain drugs by the User, a squad member, or if required an OVERWATCH Officer at high command. The sensors also detect environmental temperature, humidity and other various tactical facets of the battlefield for the users use as well as an integrated compass so that the user will always know which direction they are facing.

Number two: The suit has specialized slots ready-made for users to further customize its abilities and anything from gore-packs to fake one's death to pull out swords. We're really relying on the engineer's imagination and the soldier's ingenuity at the moment for anything they want to make for these "slots" at the moment.

Number Three, the helmet is fully integrated with TAV Systems.A  screen replaces a visor, which is connected to various cameras that allow the soldier the option of various visual sensors if the soldier in question has had the expansions installed (Options are Nightvision goggles, Thermal, and standard.). The Screen offers increased frontal face protection as the occupant of the armor will no longer have to worry about being killed by a bolt of errant plasma collapsing their visor. The sensors on the Screen variation of the helmet also allows multiple camera types to be used in place of standard light detection, allowing for the possibility of night vision or thermal sensors to be hooked up to the system.

Chinese Industrial Park (0):
American Mountain Base (0):
Brazil Jungle Base (0):
Falcon Fighter-Transport (0):
Colombia Jungle Base (2): Strongpoint, Pavellius
-Same as above but in Brazil (1): Strongpoint
-Same as above but in Argentina (1): Strongpoint
Hunter Armor (2): Chiefwaffles, Happerry
HOP-LITE MBP (1): Blood_Librarian

[Happerry]

Chinese Industrial Park (0):
American Mountain Base (0):
Brazil Jungle Base (1): Happerry
Falcon Fighter-Transport (0):
Colombia Jungle Base (2): Strongpoint, Pavellius
-Same as above but in Brazil (1): Strongpoint
-Same as above but in Argentina (1): Strongpoint
Hunter Armor (2): Chiefwaffles, Happerry
HOP-LITE MBP (1): Blood_Librarian

You know, there are two things I want to win, so I'm just going to put my vote on both of them.

a) In that case we'll get the design that does that (let's say a unit) but not the base. I want base. Many players want base. Base is the key.
b) No. It won't just give us UP. It is not how game mechanics work. Go find 10ebbor10s words after our first failed attempt. Oh, and if I wanted only UP I wouldn't bother proposing a base and just went for recruitment center. It is a manufacturing center, it has hangars to launch aircrafts, it has its own radar. It is a BASE.
c) UP is actually not the least important resource. We lost the last battle because we went for less U for no good reason but desire to win A LOT in the air. We are regularly losing battles where numbers aren't in our favor.
d) Essentially, it is the same offer as Heppery's but instead of > "build a base + no meaningfully fluff" it is a "build a base + meaningful fluff" backed by tokens to prevent difficulty increase. Really, Happery's offer could be build an X-COM base in Brazilian jungles and lose no useful information at all.
I really want to use both unit token and Exalt token because they have a good chance to sit there forever.

I will leave it in short as I disagree with basically 100% of what you have written here, your base is not just like my base any more then a barracks is like a factory, I fail to see how your base has any more 'fluff' then mine considering that both of the descriptions are 100% focused around what the bases have, and while a base might be key it should be a useful base, which a base focused around the currently least needed resource is not. And UP is the least useful resource because we already can't afford to transport all of it to the battlefield.

(I'm also not sure how you seem to expect making a giant barracks to potentially end up with a new unit type instead of more UP, but whatever.)

I'll also note that going by your logic, apparently we could sum up your plan as 'build an X-COM base in Colombian jungles' and have no useful information lost. After all, it explains how your base specializes just as well as it explains how mine does...

And in all honesty, it'd probably end up with something more useful then a giant barracks as well, so I'd be more likely to vote for that description.

[10ebbor10]

That's in a revision, meaning a design doing the same (grappling hook) would most likely be around Normal.

I should really be more careful when writing things. If you want to go full Skeleton Armor, you're looking at a design.

[Chiefwaffles]

Well, yeah. That's what I said and you implied?
The "fancy armor that can fully exploit the benefits of alien alloy, and maybe a grappling hook or so" was said to be a Hard/Very Hard revision. Since what you described is more-or-less Skeleton armor and a Hard/Very Hard revision for something like this is a bad hting, it would indeed be an easier design.

Or did you mean that the skeleton armor would be a Hard/Very Hard design?

[10ebbor10]

The "fancy armor that can fully exploit the benefits of alien alloy, and maybe a grappling hook or so" was said to be a Hard/Very Hard revision.

Yeah, I didn't mean that. The revision part only referred to the 2 options that were numbered. The line below was supposed for a design.

[Chiefwaffles]

Oh.
Oh.
So a theoretical Skeleton Armor design would be Hard/Very Hard, then?

I mean, I don't understand how basic alloy armor is a trivial revision but proper alloy armor w/ a grappling hook is a H/VH design, but sure. At least that means I was the most-right out of the argument.

[Strongpoint]

(I'm also not sure how you seem to expect making a giant barracks to potentially end up with a new unit type instead of more UP, but whatever.)

No. I expect UP and easier time designing\revising advanced units later because we'll have tech to base specialized

I'll also note that going by your logic, apparently we could sum up your plan as 'build an X-COM base in Colombian jungles' and have no useful information lost. After all, it explains how your base specializes just as well as it explains how mine does...

Please, point at anything that looks like specialization in your Brazilian base. I am very curious  because I see none. There are absolutely no specialization.

And in all honesty, it'd probably end up with something more useful then a giant barracks as well, so I'd be more likely to vote for that description.

Strawman detected. There are not a single word about enlarged barracks in my proposal

________________

Hindsight is 20/20, Strongpoint.

"Hindsight" is a very convenient way to never admit (and never learn from) mistakes. We were break even in air power. Enemy did a blunder and gave us tokens for free. We designed a fighter with those tokens and rolled good.

What was an obvious next step once we went ahead in airforce? Do something to strengthen our land troops! What was the direction the thread? Thread went for revising missiles because our "missiles are useless". Even with enemy going for their own missiles it was a wrong decision. And I was sure that it is wrong long before actual battle

and remember that your plans would likely have been no more successful, overall (as in, considering every battle and every plan together), than anyone else's.

IIRC I either voted for or proposed 3 Raven + 1 Skyrangers and immediately said that it was a bad idea after that first battle in Brazil. That was a hindsight, sure. It also was a lesson learned.

For example. If my revision\design will be overcomplicated and get very hard difficulty for no good reason I won't go "It's unfortunate" and "GM is wrong" route like Chiefwaffles did.

I'll say something like "Ooops. I screwed it up"

[Strongpoint]

Time to do what I like -  Propose a design that has 0.01% chance of getting voted

R-X drone: Alien Computer token. Alien Equipment token.
R-X drone is an AI controlled flying drone weighting around 200kg. It is strongly influenced by alien land drones this one is made both for aerial and land combat. It is propelled by a scaled down version of Talon's engine. It is armored in a way similar to scheme used on Rockbreaker missile. It has empty internal space for a mission specific module. There are five by default: a) Rockbreaker like warhead, that allows to transform the drone into an advanced cruised missile b) Complicated surveillance equipment that can deliver information directly to X-COM operatives TAV's and Talons' pilots and also can be used in "AVACS" mode c)Light railgun powerful enough to make holes in small scouts turning it into a very light fighter that is useful against smaller enemy vessels) Machinegun turret for ground support and shooting down enemy missiles in flight. e) single missile to pose a threat to larger UFOs. Main disadvantage of the drone is a low endurance that means that it either needs to engage targets close to X-COM base or be carried into combat as a parasite craft by a larger aircraft (for example it can be attached to Skyranger while still allowing full X-COM squad inside). Also, thanks to small size several R-Xes can be loaded in Skyranger replacing the squad and be launched by opening the door in mid-flight


Hey, Strongpoint, didn't you say in the post above that we really don't need more air power? Yep. But I kinda hope that this will be purchasable with both VP or EP maybe even UP (but I admit that it is a wishful thinking). Also, I'd love to have a cheaper VP alternative for Talon for flexibility. Also, I see this as a first step to eventual Talon replacement with no pilot (or even no pilot revision of Talon). Maaaaybe I am going overboard with flexibility but I prefer that to trying to fit everything in the design. I think low endurance disadvantage is necessary to help with cost\design difficulty. I think that we are well prepared for this kind of design with tokens and past experience and it offers nice synergy with existing forces.

[Madman198237]

I mean, I don't understand how basic alloy armor is a trivial revision but proper alloy armor w/ a grappling hook is a H/VH design, but sure. At least that means I was the most-right out of the argument.

Darn internet. I *think* that that last line is facetious, but I can't tell. So I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was.

Also, ebbor, what do you mean "fully exploits the benefits of alien alloy"? What benefits are there to exploit that can't be discovered just by using the stuff in place of normal metal? We need the protective qualities and the lightness, and, hey, look at that, using the stuff as simple armor plates get both of those.

In other words, what other magic qualities does this ridiculous metal have?

[Blood_Librarian]

He's referring to the fact that replacing all the armor plates but keeping hte overall design same, assuming no special considerations are required for making alloy armor would "not be a trivial design", versus making what essentially amounts to the grappling hook and attaching that to the armor would be very hard.

[Madman198237]

Um, actually it'd be a trivial REVISION to make armor that is just regular armor except with alien alloy instead of steel or ceramics, if you have a token. Otherwise it's just Easy, or Trivial (as a Design).

Making a grapple assembly and whatnot is H/VH on a Design. So, technically, since I was arguing that it would be simplicity itself to merely make premade armor out of alien alloy, I was the most correct.

[Happerry]

I'll also note that going by your logic, apparently we could sum up your plan as 'build an X-COM base in Colombian jungles' and have no useful information lost. After all, it explains how your base specializes just as well as it explains how mine does...

Please, point at anything that looks like specialization in your Brazilian base. I am very curious  because I see none. There are absolutely no specialization.

Thank you for admitting you haven't even bothered to read my plans, considering they explicitly state they're all production ball state they're focused on production. But considering you seem to be unable to actually read, I'll quote and bold the specific parts again here.

Hidden in the backwaters of China, this base takes advantage of the multitude of cheap, easily conscripted labor that is also easily concealed with the traditionally 'delicate' Chinese views towards censorship to create a powerful production center of airframes, air weapons, and infantry equipment for XCOM's use. It also has a small lab setup to help put new prototypes, probably developed elsewhere, into production, a barracks to host the base's security troopers, and several concealed missile launchers and ground to air defense railguns to help ward off enemy base attacks. A single solitary hanger and airstrip allow air missions to be staged out of this base in an emergency.

With most of the facilities hidden underneath and inside one a fairly large mountain, this base hosts a powerful and high tech production center that takes advantage of easy access to high technology experts and designers in America to build and prototype the most advanced gear that XCOM needs with all the speed made possible with modern automation technology. These facilities, buried as they are, are armored in literally tons of rock, and defended by a team of security troopers that put the bases natural fortifications to best use. The base also has a set of missile launchers and railcannon turrets to help ward of air attacks, normally concealed, and a small lab for use in prototyping new designs. A small hanger is attached for emergency use, but the base is not designed as an offensive installation.

Hidden deep beneath the jungle canopy, and half buried besides, this base takes utmost advantage of it's backwater positioning to conceal its network of workshops and factories from interested eyes. Here, new gear, both air and ground, is built for XCOM's use, and some prototype equipment put into production with the help of a small research station. Also hidden beneath the jungle canopy are a network of missile launchers and ground to air mass drivers, as well as a hanger with an attached airstrip (which is the only part of the base viewable from above, given the needs of vehicles to take off from it). A few scattered barracks facilities hosts a defensive group of security personal to ward off lost explorers and serve as a last line of defense if the aliens attack.

Hell, you even flat out call them production bases when you submitted your wasteful Colombia barracks base, as can be seen here...

1) We got a monthly token and reward token, it is not that important to go for the production base.

So you know perfectly well what they are optimized for and just don't want to admit it now that you find it more convenient to deny it.

And in all honesty, it'd probably end up with something more useful then a giant barracks as well, so I'd be more likely to vote for that description.

Strawman detected. There are not a single word about enlarged barracks in my proposal

I find this claim hilarious considering how you have been repeatingly strawmanning my proposals as well as flat out lying about what they are designed to do, but whatever.

And it's a base 100% about giving us more UP. That's a barracks base because that's what the base basically is. A giant barracks that gives us more UP. Which, again, we need the least out of the three resource token types.

[Strongpoint]

Hidden deep beneath the jungle canopy, and half buried besides, this base takes utmost advantage of it's backwater positioning to conceal its network of workshops and factories from interested eyes. Here, new gear, both air and ground, is built for XCOM's use, and some prototype equipment put into production with the help of a small research station[/b]. Also hidden beneath the jungle canopy are a network of missile launchers and ground to air mass drivers, as well as a hanger with an attached airstrip (which is the only part of the base viewable from above, given the needs of vehicles to take off from it). A few scattered barracks facilities hosts a defensive group of security personal to ward off lost explorers and serve as a last line of defense if the aliens attack.

And how the bolded part is different to our main base? It has "network of workshops and factories", too. Maybe you think that our EP and VP come from a thin air or whatever.

And it's a base 100% about giving us more UP. That's a barracks base because that's what the base basically is. A giant barracks that gives us more UP. Which, again, we need the least out of the three resource token types.

Yeah, it clearly says, there are no workshops, hangars, labs. It is a huge barracks base You really make me laugh here. This base is universal. It just doesn't go into detail about the stuff that is same as on the main base because... well.. why describe a copy of something.

[Chiefwaffles]

Madman:
How dare you abuse the most-correct title. I always was, am, and always will be, the most correct. There is no debate here.


Anyways.
I think we should save the armor debate for when we have an alloy token. The benefits of a proper armor design would be insane, and wouldn't really benefit much from revising super-simple armor beforehand; we should preserve action economy in that sense.

So I'm switching my vote to Happerry's base. Hunter Armor shall return once we get another Alloy Token.

Chinese Industrial Park (0):
American Mountain Base (0):
Brazil Jungle Base (2): Happerry, Chiefwaffles
Colombia Jungle Base (2): Strongpoint, Pavellius
-Same as above but in Brazil (1): Strongpoint
-Same as above but in Argentina (1): Strongpoint
Hunter Armor (1): Happerry
HOP-LITE MBP (1): Blood_Librarian

Also Happerry, mind adding quick very-low-priority mentions of inter-agency cooperation teams and alien containment to the Brazil base proposal?

Both would be nice and seem trivial. But of course if Ebbor thinks otherwise they're not worth extra difficulty.