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[RoseHeart]

Mr. Waffles,

Who offered a plan to revise the railgun(which, I laid out in detail would have those exact problems)?
me

Who has always been the one to bring up the subject of winning?
me

Who is the one that compromises the most, changes their vote, is first to admit they are wrong?
me

This is simply not one of those times. I trust you want to win(I earnestly wonder what some players motivation is, countering my vote seconds after with no explanation).

Designing armor is not our priority.

You are planning far out enough it will have opportunity cost. I will meet you at VP if you want but however the votes are cast, unless our equipment grows legs, we are hurting ourselves.

Don't worry, I will come to the rescue tomorrow.

  X•COM TRUSTEE   
/\ •V I G I L O• /\\
/\ \C O N F I D O/ /\\

[Chiefwaffles]

I really do not care about what you've done in the past. I care about trying to get you to remedy a clear mistake.

[Madman198237]

1. Who offered a plan to revise the railgun(which, I laid out in detail would have those exact problems)?
me

2. Who has always been the one to bring up the subject of winning?
me

3. Who is the one that compromises the most, changes their vote, is first to admit they are wrong?
me

4. Designing armor is not our priority.

5. Don't worry, I will come to the rescue tomorrow.

1. The railgun sincerely would not have had such problems had it rolled higher. That's just a fact of Arms Races. Indeed, it rolled a 3, which is about as bad as you can get.

2. Because that TOTALLY is not at all what we're all trying to do, no sirree, you're the ONLY one capable of seeing that [/sarcasm]
Seriously though, deflate your ego and face the facts. You are WRONG about what to spend this credit on. We NEED more equipment if we want our guys to have any sort of survivability, additional weaponry, etc.

3. I'd have to look to know whether this is true or just you claiming that your rapid posting and even more rapid vote switching is something good, but being indecisive with voting may not be such a good thing.

4. It darn well better be---plasma is relatively easy to make less effective, you just need heat resistance.

5. 
Seriously?

[Happerry]

4. It darn well better be---plasma is relatively easy to make less effective, you just need heat resistance.

Given they seem to be going for ECM, we really really should make a railgun conversion for the Interceptor first, but Armor is definitely something to look hard at next design phase.

[Madman198237]

Hopefully, fitting an upsized railgun to a fighter plane is revision material.

[Thanatos Russ]

I still think yall need a big upgrade to air combat.

[Cnidaros]

I didn't really expect so many pages of arguing over just one design, tbh. To add n my two cent's worth, I voted for strongpoint's design over Happery's because the latter has a laboratory, which I don't think is necessary as we can just transport our salvage back to Greece. Also strongpoint's design seems like it would be cheaper and simpler in terms of complexity, and thus easier to roll for.

As for the UP or EP debate, why not go for VP? Then we could deploy more Ravens with the ground combat package, in order to make use of that Combined Arms mission type we haven't actually used yet, helping us on the ground.

[Chiefwaffles]

Because we need EP.

Again - right now we can give exactly one "cheap" design to each squad and literally nothing else. What if we want armor? What if we want alien capturing equipment? What if we want literally any other equipment for our ground troops other than the default? That all costs EP.
And right now we are using all our EP just giving our squads Railguns. That means if we ever develop other equipment, it's going to actually hurt us to implement it since it'll be at the cost of the railgun or armor or any other equipment we could be fielding.


And regarding the airbase:
Laboratory - Honestly, this is just a piece of fluff. It's, in Happerry's own words, a small room to "look at what we scavenged and catalog it". That's it. Barely more advanced than a high school lab. There's no reason why it would add any notable complexity to the design and no reason why it would have any benefits. It's a fluff QoL feature.
Complexity - Yes, Happerry's base is more complex. But that's a good thing. Renting a couple of hangars from a military base would barely help us. VP is not how much hangar space we have - it's our total capacity to manufacture, maintain, and field any kind of aircraft. We need aircraft workshops. We need actual infrastructure. A couple more hangars and some retrofitted conventional maintenance facilities would barely help us and would still cost a design. Then there's the problem of this base being dead if the aliens so much as consider a UFO being able to shoot at the ground.

[Strongpoint]

Actually, have you, like, even played OldCom? Ever?

I did, a lot, and, you know... I don't remember design and revision phases there... Your attempt to mimic PC game mechanics instead of going creative is not only boring, it is suboptimal. We are n the same setting, we are playing under very different mechanics. What you write about bases is true for PC-game mechanics, but so what?

Bigger bases are better. It's just a fact of XCOM, because more stuff almost always equals better in basically any game.

Here... Clear PC game mechanics logic...

they're probably going to have a workshop to make more ammo

Or we can do what real armies do... build stuff in one place, transfer to another...

This is why I think why my base needs only maintenance workshop. You need no production facilities at airbase. You can deliver aircrafts and aircraft parts and ammo from your other base. it is STUPID to have your base and factory in the same space. You let your enemy attack both with one strike. You also add scientists to be captured and interrogated...
If your goal is to get more VP, expand our current base. No need for another one.

No, but then, I don't expect your base to work on a 4+ roll either, so...

Well, difference is... Your base, by the description, looks like +8VP, +2EP, +1UP + effects of a new lab + operational bonuses from airbase. Either 10ebbor10 will simplify your base or that will be daaaamn hard to reach.

My is going for operational bonuses of Airbase + maybe single VP from additional infrastructure.

It is also an answer why it is more aggressive. Yours is factory first, everything else next. My is military base

PS.
Why the hell we want to decide how to spend our point now? A lot can change before we reach reaction phase. Like effects from the base

[Chiefwaffles]

You're very clearly just ignoring what Happerry's actually saying. All of your criticisms about his base design are now completely unfounded and based on nothing but an imaginary version of Happerry's design that exists only in your head.
I mean, seriously? "+8VP, +2EP, +1UP + effects of a new lab + operational bonuses from airbase"? If you actually read anything Happerry said, then you know that's nowhere near the truth.


Then there's still the many problems with your base. Like how it'll collapse if the aliens so much as look at it funny. Or how it doesn't actually logically help us beyond "another place to launch from", which isn't really a proper justification for VP.

[Strongpoint]

"+8VP, +2EP, +1UP + effects of a new lab + operational bonuses from airbase"?

Our current base is clearly smaller than what Happerry proposes and it gives 6VP, 3EP, 3UP. It is only logical to assume that larger base should give more VP and still give some EP and UP.  Note that we got our current base on guaranteed 8. Now we go for a base of about the same complexity...

Like how it'll collapse if the aliens so much as look at it funny

Yes, we'll do absolutely nothing seeing enemy mission directed at our base... You make it sound like the base will be easily destroyed the very next turn. It is simply not the case.

And even if we go for the worst case and base is destroyed... It is not the end the world. We already benefited from it. We can use gained experience to design another base

Or how it doesn't actually logically help us beyond "another place to launch from", which isn't really a proper justification for VP.

I think my base can have 1\6 of VP potential of the main one. It is not as tiny. It has a maintenance workshop. It has support from non X-COM airforce. It has a hangar. If you want to say that to get a VP or 2 we need to build a base of the same size as our main one...

But you know, main goal of this base is NOT VP. My goal is to improve our interception missions in Americas and counter panic. If I wanted more VP I'd build a factory base somewhere in USA.

[Chiefwaffles]

Our current base is clearly smaller than what Happerry proposes

You've progressed to blatant falsehoods. Congratulations.

[Strongpoint]

its primary function is to serve as a amplifier to XCOM's air wing capabilities, and as such the majority of its space is dedicated towards hangers for XCOM craft, workshops to maintain and build more craft, and a few barracks so the Skyrangers will have soldiers to deliver. As well, there is also a liason's quarters with all the gear and fittings needed to support use of local InterAgency Cooperation Teams when they must be called in. If attacked, the base does have anti-air missile

How all of that is not larger than our main base?

While this not a PC Game, we can assume that our original base looks similar to what you can see in games: several hangars, workshop, lab, warehouse, living quarters. The list above looks larger for me.

[RoseHeart]

I really do not care about what you've done in the past. I care about trying to get you to remedy a clear mistake.

I logged in and read that as "I really do care about what you've done in the past."

My heart grew three sizes.

Anyway good thing I was wrong, no place for such emotions in this war.

  X•COM TRUSTEE   
/\ •V I G I L O• /\\
/\ \C O N F I D O/ /\\

[10ebbor10]

Really people.

If you can not agree on a what a certain design means, clarify that by writing it in big friendly letters or something. No need to eviscerate one another.