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Author Topic: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race  (Read 86843 times)

RoseHeart

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2017, 03:33:32 pm »

I play forum games to have fun. No this is not the beginning of some argument about Discord. Simply this is an argument for water bases. When I was a kid I used to draw little doodles of bisections of underwater bases. So that's totally me I got to go with water bases!
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Madman198237

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2017, 03:46:50 pm »

EDIT: Got ninja'd, this is referring to BL's post, not roseheart's.

That....is not going to work, at all. A deep undersea base is impossible, no matter how advanced our tech---we'd still need more bases in order to launch aircraft and sorties.

An undersea rail or coilgun is impossible. You're going to produce a diamagnetic effect in the water inside and outside of the coilgun, which is going to put ENORMOUS pressure on both your payload and the coilgun's barrel, almost certainly enough to destroy the mechanism, certainly more than we can manage to build with the tech we have.

Don't you DARE suggest a coilgun with no water in the barrel---you'll destroy ANY payload as soon as it hits the water (Unless it's protruding all the way above the ocean's surface from the seabed, which is impossible for its own set of reasons). And please don't tell me you think we can fire an aircraft out of a coilgun, please? Rail/coilgun payloads tend to deform on impact with the air for a REASON, and we can't engineer an aircraft tough enough to survive that, even with a faring/sabot-style canister.


To the earlier objections: If the aliens leave a dreadnought parked over Gibraltar they're going to get hit by missiles from across Western Europe. Conventional cruise missiles at first, and if those don't make it go away I would be surprised if the nuclear armaments aren't unleashed.

So, for the base:
UNS Sentinel
We need mobility, protection, firepower, and space. A nuclear-powered aircraft carrier happens to have all of those in spades. Basically a modified Nimitz-class nuclear supercarrier upgraded to the most modern spec possible, the Sentinel will indeed be the first line of defense. Accompanied by a small fleet of escort vessels and tenders, loaded with anti-aircraft and anti-surface-vessel weaponry and a healthy contingent of modified ballistic-missile-interceptor missiles (Fast enough t shoot down an ICBM that's travelling at max velocity), the Sentinel will be capable of deterring any hostiles from landing in a specific theater (i.e., by shooting them down on the way in with a set of interceptor missiles), while deploying infantry missions to any other theaters.

Our first design, um, yeah, I have things I need to get done, I'll post...something, if nobody else has taken the initiative (HINT, HINT) and pulled up something we might use.

On the list of things we might want: Superior training first and foremost. Our guys need to be capable of determining the optimal use of action points attacking and withdrawing with maximum efficiency, interacting with civilians, and generally being basically nothing more or less than SAS or SEALs, at least.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2017, 03:48:02 pm »

Nautilus submarine base
First X-COM base is a large nuclear aircraft carrier submarine. It is the largest submarine ever built with its own runaway and hangars for several aircrafts adapted to launch from it. It also has a plenty of living room, large storage area, workshop and laboratory. Finally, it is equipped with state of art ground to air missiles.

Japan did carrier sumbarines in WW2, we can do the same but far better. It is far less vulnerable than surface carrier.

Swordfish
Swordfish is a light submergible vessel. Designed to act as a stealthy alternative to delivering soldiers via aircraft. It is limited to shores, it is far slower than transport aircrafts, but it can carry heavier equipment and more soldiers and it is far harder to detect both by the enemy and civilians


Quote
Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
TRAWLER(1):Blood Librarian
Nautilus (1): Strongpoint

Magnos(1):Blood_Librarian
Swordfish (1) Strongpoint
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Blood_Librarian

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2017, 03:53:58 pm »

I would handwave it with non-Newtonian crash gel capsule that releases the aircraft once they are free of water, but the Nautilus sounds cooler.

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Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
TRAWLER(0):
Nautilus (1): Strongpoint, Blood Librarian

Magnos(0):
Swordfish (2) Strongpoint, Blood_librarian
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Madman198237

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2017, 04:17:57 pm »

Since when do we get to just HANDWAVE the LAWS of PHYSICS?

Sorry, but we have MODERN tech right now.


YOU! SHALL NOT! Get rid of the laws of physics that easily.
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RoseHeart

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2017, 05:11:03 pm »

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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2017, 06:24:39 pm »

I like Strongpoint's Nautilus but I feel that it could use some changes.

Base Design: Nautilus Submarine Base - Variant B
(Variant A, for reference:)
Nautilus submarine base
First X-COM base is a large nuclear aircraft carrier submarine. It is the largest submarine ever built with its own runaway and hangars for several aircrafts adapted to launch from it. It also has a plenty of living room, large storage area, workshop and laboratory. Finally, it is equipped with state of art ground to air missiles.

Japan did carrier submarines in WW2, we can do the same but far better. It is far less vulnerable than surface carrier.

The Variant B is largely the same as the Variant A. However, it is equipped with no ground to air missiles - we feel that it'd distract too much from the focus of the design and wouldn't be ever useful against any alien spacecraft designed to attack our main base. It has plenty of space for cargo and future expansion, and its runways' and hangars' numbers and size are extensive though it must of course surface to launch and receive aircraft. It also has the capability to act as a mothership for smaller submarines. It should be capable of going very deep underwater and staying underwater for extended periods of time. Speed is to be sacrificed to keep the difficulty low - cargo and logistics and the like would be handled by boats/submarines/aircraft/whatever moving things between the Nautilus and other bases, while the Nautilus stays deep in the sea.
If the exact location is a concern, it should be put in the Atlantic sea for easier access to both the Americas, Europe, Africa, while not being cut off from Asia and Australia.

Or in other words, our base is a very giant carrier-submarine in the Atlantic.


Design: Tactical Awareness Visor
Designed to be able to be equipped by itself or embedded in any helmet, the TAV is an Augmented Reality HUD for our troops.

Using numerous small cameras - such as infrared, visible, and the like - combined with a small integrated computer, the TAV can help our operatives' awareness in the field. The main use is target recognition. Through heat, shape, and more interesting techniques like looking for pulses, the TAV can very reliable detect anything it judges as a living or relevant entity. These entities are highlighted based on familiarity - fellow operatives get green (no rookies shooting other rookies), humans get blue, unknowns get yellow, and confirmed threats get red. In addition to very easy recognizing of targets, the varied cameras ensure that it works regardless of visibility - NO MORE NIGHT MISSIONS the aliens can't hide in the dark.

It also has other functions deemed relevant like current mission objective, the status of any networked devices (like "ammo in gun"), radio status, and anything else deemed relevant. But the main feature is target recognition and highlighting, which should greatly help in any case; especially against a stealthy and unknown foe.


TL;DR: An augmented reality HUD that highlights targets+allies in different colors and has some other miscellaneous functions. Open for improvement in the future too.
((References: MS HoloLens - A commercial - and very cheap relative to us - AR device; Automated Target Recognition - just general info on target recognition stuff; Kinect - Not AR, but is also commercial, "reliably" recognizes humans, can sense pulses through the skin, skeletal recognition, and more all while being a fraction of the price of even the HoloLens; and more. The ideas of "target recognition" and "augmented reality HUD" are already fairly present in modern culture and civilian+military tech.))




Quote
BASE DESIGN
Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
TRAWLER (0):
Nautilus (2): Strongpoint, Blood Librarian
Nautilus Variant B (1): Chiefwaffles

REGULAR DESIGN
Magnos (0):
Swordfish (2) Strongpoint, Blood_librarian
Tactical Awareness Visor (1): Chiefwaffles

The Variant B is more-or-less the same thing as the original but without the missiles. We can design proper ones later or just use actual interceptor craft, but putting missiles in the design is going to add to difficulty without ever being useful. The rest of it is just things which I feel are assumed by most but I personally wanted to make more clear so we don't miss anything when Ebbor does the design.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RoseHeart

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2017, 07:15:25 pm »

Island Undersea Mountain
(see my previous post for drawing)
The benefits of the underground base, with the flare of an undersea base. Deep see vents offer power. The "island" offers access to send intercepters via a secret hatch. Overall more secure than a typical underground base- threats must come from the water, or from the top. An assault is either clumsy or predictable.

Addit: Also we can send sea vessels.

Quote
BASE DESIGN
Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
Trawler (0):
Nautilus (2): Strongpoint, Blood Librarian
Nautilus Variant B (1): Chiefwaffles
Island Undersea Mtn. (1): roseheart

REGULAR DESIGN
Magnos (0):
Swordfish (2) Strongpoint, Blood_librarian
Tactical Awareness Visor (1): Chiefwaffles
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 07:19:36 pm by roseheart »
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☼Another☼

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2017, 07:58:30 pm »

Quote
BASE DESIGN
Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
Trawler (0):
Nautilus (2): Strongpoint, Blood Librarian
Nautilus Variant B (1): Chiefwaffles
Island Undersea Mtn. (2): roseheart, ☼Another☼

REGULAR DESIGN
Magnos (0):
Swordfish (3) Strongpoint, Blood_librarian, ☼Another
Tactical Awareness Visor (1): Chiefwaffles
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2017, 08:09:47 pm »

I'm very confused by the Swordfish.
Swordfish
Swordfish is a light submergible vessel. Designed to act as a stealthy alternative to delivering soldiers via aircraft. It is limited to shores, it is far slower than transport aircrafts, but it can carry heavier equipment and more soldiers and it is far harder to detect both by the enemy and civilians

It's slower and can only head to shores. Much slower, since it's a submarine versus "the world's first supersonic troop transport". And we'd be spending our first design - arguably a very important design in deciding how the game starts - on this. Our objective as XCOM is largely a reactive one - if we suddenly downgrade our transport craft to one that has a severely limited range of "only the shores of the sea it was launched from" with a severely worse speed, we destroy that role. If the aliens land anywhere that isn't a beach next to our specific sea, the design is useless.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Madman198237

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2017, 08:24:24 pm »

Normal Operations and Tasking Special Operator Field Training
The NOTSOFT training regimen is every bit as harsh as the most advanced special forces training programs out there, meant to weed out the weak and harden the strong into something capable of breaking aliens over their knees with nothing more than their bare hands. We promise that this is no exaggeration. Including firearm, CQC, vehicle, and basic medical training, NOTSOFT will provide the fighting edge that we will need to take down alien invaders.

Quote
BASE DESIGN
Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
Trawler (0):
Nautilus (2): Strongpoint, Blood Librarian
Nautilus Variant B (1): Chiefwaffles
Island Undersea Mtn. (2): roseheart, ☼Another☼
UNS Sentinel (1): Madman

REGULAR DESIGN
Magnos (0):
Swordfish (2) Strongpoint, Blood_librarian
Tactical Awareness Visor (1): Chiefwaffles
NOTSOFT (1): Madman
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☼Another☼

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2017, 08:31:58 pm »

I think Swordfish is a good start for Port Attacks and further underwater stuff if they go TFTD. But we could also go into laser weapons or stunning weapons.

Also, Madman, my vote for swordfish isn't counted in your vote counter.

Quote from: Votes
BASE DESIGN
Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
Trawler (0):
Nautilus (2): Strongpoint, Blood Librarian
Nautilus Variant B (1): Chiefwaffles
Island Undersea Mtn. (2): roseheart, ☼Another☼
UNS Sentinel (1): Madman

REGULAR DESIGN
Magnos (0):
Swordfish (2) Strongpoint, Blood_librarian,
Tactical Awareness Visor (1): Chiefwaffles
NOTSOFT (1): Madman
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 08:43:00 pm by ☼Another☼ »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2017, 08:38:18 pm »

...but this isn't TFTD. The Swordfish is a counter to a nonexistent strategy. If the alien side doesn't go underwater - and they probably won't - then it's actually useless. And better yet, here's the relevant sites, taken from the OP:
Quote from: 10ebbor10
Africa
---> Egypt
---> South Africa
---> Nigeria

Asia
--->Australia
--->China
--->India
--->Japan

Europe
--->France
--->Germany
--->Russia
--->United Kingdom

North America
--->Canada
--->Mexico
--->United States

South America
--->Argentina
--->Brazil
Note how none of them are underwater. So even if the aliens do go underwater, we don't need a submarine to counter their attacks. If the aliens attack the surface - and they have to if they want to win the game - the Skyranger will be better than any submarine.


And even if making our stuff work underwater was a viable option, designing a submarine as our first design is not the way to do it. Watch:
Revision: Skyranger Submersion
By making sure the Skyranger is completely airtight and increasing its pressure resistance, we can get it to work underwater! Not nearly as fast of course, but the Skyranger can just fly over the underwater site, then go down. Overall a faster trip than any submarine.

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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Happerry

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2017, 09:09:56 pm »

Submarine or underground island base both sound good for me. As for the normal design, I really don't see the need for the Swordfish so I'm gonna vote for the 'oh god keep us from having only rookies' training upgrade.

Quote from: Votes
BASE DESIGN
Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
Trawler (0):
Nautilus (2): Strongpoint, Blood Librarian
Nautilus Variant B (2): Chiefwaffles, Happerry
Island Undersea Mtn. (2): roseheart, ☼Another☼, Happerry
UNS Sentinel (1): Madman

REGULAR DESIGN
Magnos (0):
Swordfish (2) Strongpoint, Blood_librarian,
Tactical Awareness Visor (1): Chiefwaffles
NOTSOFT (2): Madman, Happerry
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☼Another☼

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Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2017, 09:18:45 pm »


Quote from: Votes
BASE DESIGN
Sunken Atlantis(1):Urist
Trawler (0):
Nautilus (2): Strongpoint, Blood Librarian
Nautilus Variant B (2): Chiefwaffles, Happerry
Island Undersea Mtn. (2): roseheart, ☼Another☼, Happerry
UNS Sentinel (1): Madman

REGULAR DESIGN
Magnos (0):
Swordfish (2) Strongpoint, Blood_librarian,
Tactical Awareness Visor (1): Chiefwaffles
NOTSOFT (3): Madman, Happerry, ☼Another☼
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