Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[IcyTea31]

there is nothing to do.

Yes there is. You could actually describe what the choices mean and why we should pick them.

I'll post my interpretations of all of the traits soon, possible blurbs for presenting them in the main thread.

I mean, the votebox is the standard Arms Race means of making things happen, so I don't see why you're complaining about it, Tea.

This is my first Arms Race, so I don't know any standards. But as I see it, it doesn't fix either of the problems discussed: it takes a long while to tally the votes, and it will leave some people unhappy with the choice.

[Madman198237]

Magical: (2) Roboson, Madman
Adaption/Evolution: (1) Roboson
Perfection: (1) Madman
Eternal:

This is an Arms Race votebox. It is finely crafted of salt and tears. On it is engraved an image of Options in salt. On it is engraved an image of Votes in tears.

But seriously, every time you vote for something you add 1 to the counter(s) of the thing(s) you've voted for, and add your name to the list of people that have voted.

The GM takes one look at the box and says "Yep that's a majority" and we go on with our happy lives, instead of making external polls which can be lost or just outright missed by players.

[Maximum Spin]

(To be totally fair, every time people not used to arms races try to use that, someone inevitably copies an outdated version and screws it up for everyone at least once.)

[Madman198237]

It's the Arms Race learning curve.

The veterans are here to deny your plans and salt the earth with our unholy anger fix things and make them run smoothly.

[Maximum Spin]

Anyway, while I do like the evolution idea, I voted on the strawpoll for Magical and Perfection, and I see no obvious reason to change that now. Especially since I have a feeling the Industrialists will just deny that "opposite-of-evolution" applies to them.

Magical: (3) Roboson, Madman, Maximum Spin
Adaptation/Evolution: (1) Roboson
Perfection: (2) Madman, Maximum Spin
Eternal:

[Roboson]

Its standard practice, and put together for the clarity of the GM. The only thing left to do is let people vote in it. If someone hasn't voted, they're not on the votebox and we can say "Hey ___, go vote". From what I've seen of arms races, its the best solution for the GM and for making things going faster.

Very similar to the stawpoll, except we can see who has yet to vote and where people voted. Speaking of said strawpoll and your desire to have me write up about the traits, its uncessary. The've been described and discussed, and all 7 players have voted on your strawpoll. So me (or someone else) copy pasting a blurb from the discussion over the traits really isn't going to change much.

Really at this point it comes down to adaptability and perfection (based on the strawpoll). So if there was anyone in the Eternal camp that wants to back one of the clearly superior options more popular ones, now would be a good time to do that.

[Kashyyk]

Magical: (3) Roboson, Madman, Maximum Spin
Adaptation/Evolution: (2) Roboson, Kashyyk
Perfection: (3) Madman, Maximum Spin, Kashyyk
Eternal:

I'm not sold on magic to be honest.

[IcyTea31]

Magical: (4) Roboson, Madman, Maximum Spin, IcyTea31
Adaptation/Evolution: (2) Roboson, Kashyyk
Perfection: (4) Madman, Maximum Spin, Kashyyk, IcyTea31
Eternal:

Here's some drafts for possible blurbs. Comments, critique and such appreciated.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Magical: Some forces of Nature are outside the realm of what can be measured or maybe even perceived. Not everything makes sense, or maybe it makes sense in some arcane way that won't hold up to scrutiny. Whatever the truth, nobody can deny the existence of strange creatures and people causing wondrous things to happen in the world.

Adaptation/Evolution: Nature is flexible. It learns from its mistakes and tries something else when it fails, until finally it finds a way.

Perfection: When it comes to Nature, finding a flaw in the harmony is nigh impossible. And anything you can name, the acme of it is almost certainly an example of nature. For example, golden orb weaver silk is stronger than kevlar and an organic brain processes far more data than an electronic computer.

Skipping Eternal for now unless it makes a black horse victory.

Craftsmanship, to oppose Mass Production: We of Nature reject the notion of creating a thousand inferior products over fifty excellent ones. When we create, it is an art that cannot be rushed, and form is no less important than function. The devil is always in the details, after all. A soulless machine will never create a better strudel than even a beginner chef.

Instinct, to oppose Arete: There is folly in working hard to strive for excellence and self-knowledge. Does a bird work hard to fly, does it need to know how its wings work? No, it simply follows its heart, the wonders already programmed within its animal mind. As such, we trust our gut and leave your 'moral virtue' to those who can't get it right on the first try.

[Shadowclaw777]

Magical: (4) Roboson, Madman, Maximum Spin, IceyTea31
Adaptation/Evolution: (3) Roboson, Kashyyk, Shadowclaw
Perfection: (4) Madman, Maximum Spin, Kashyyk, IcyTea31
Eternal:

@Kashykk Replace your Vote from Perfection to Magical; let perfection die, and allow us to have adaption/evolution!

[Madman198237]

Everyone gets TWO votes for traits, since we're picking two traits.

If you want to add more to the votebox, GO AHEAD. However, consider carefully before you waste your vote on them, we need to get choices moving here, and so I'm only mentioning the freedom to add more options because it might be necessary.

[RAM]

5: Magical: Roboson, Madman, Maximum Spin, IceyTea31, RAM
3: Adaptation/Evolution: Roboson, Kashyyk, Shadowclaw
4: Perfection: Madman, Maximum Spin, Kashyyk, IcyTea31
1: Eternal: RAM

Magic is, well, open-ended, but mostly they will think they won all the lotteries when they can take comprehension/science... But comprehension necessitates accountability. They will be stuck with the resources they can justify and nothing else.

Perfection pretty much grants them a free ride boost their mass production with a pragmatism theme, and we can probably get it for cheap from a production theme.

Evolution gives them regimen, which is sort of a nightmare scenario. Not to mention that evolution requires generations to function. Adaptation is not so bad but still, regimen is terrifying.

Eternity is, well, it is slow. And it grants them intensity, which looks frightening, but it is also expensive... And let's not forget that immortality is a great incentive for followers, even if we only grant it to a few...

Industry is all about burning the world to feed the moment. Our best attack is to resource-starve them. Shut down their economy and they will have nothing... Magic and Eternity for the win!

Are Arete and Mass production confirmed? I dislike instinct, it is a lot of effort to program things and tends to make them predictable. Also, it works best with mass-production because it means less time spent on training your massive horde. If we are going for quality over quantity then stamping on an instant know-how patch doesn't have the same value. Plus, birds work hard to learn flying. Ants seem to get it mostly for free. They are complete dunces at it... Hotshot skills take practice...

[Roboson]

I would encourage you not to vote for eternal (unless you're incredibly set on it or doing it as a sort of protest vote). It only got 2 votes in the strawpoll, and is unlikely to be a contender for the traits by the end of voting. Of course, you're welcome to do so, just pointing out that its sort of lagging behind the others at a time when we kind of need to pick winners.

[IcyTea31]

Are Arete and Mass production confirmed? I dislike instinct, it is a lot of effort to program things and tends to make them predictable. Also, it works best with mass-production because it means less time spent on training your massive horde. If we are going for quality over quantity then stamping on an instant know-how patch doesn't have the same value. Plus, birds work hard to learn flying. Ants seem to get it mostly for free. They are complete dunces at it... Hotshot skills take practice...

Arete and Mass Production is what they have in the main thread right now. You're welcome to come up with better opposing traits to them. Arete in particular is a tough one, as what is the actual opposite of the moral virtue of hard work? Instinct is just something I can make a case for, though I understand it's less than ideal. Leisure is another option for an opposing trait, but partying all day is something we may want to avoid, unless we go for maximizing worship numbers.

[RAM]

I would encourage you not to vote for eternal (unless you're incredibly set on it or doing it as a sort of protest vote). It only got 2 votes in the strawpoll, and is unlikely to be a contender for the traits by the end of voting. Of course, you're welcome to do so, just pointing out that its sort of lagging behind the others at a time when we kind of need to pick winners.

This is why the simple "one vote each, highest wins" is a terrible terrible voting system. Vote politics just kills good things, and there are ways of defeating most ties too if your voting system is good enough. I honestly believe that we want to drive them into overspending. It is a classic failing of industry and something that should be very exploitable, both in publicity and brutality. Perfection is opposed by "good enough" which is great for making due with limited resources and supplying your massed forces while evolution is, quite frankly, terrible to work with, and is opposed by arbitrary consistency, which is brilliant for war on an industrial scale. I vote for eternity not out of protest but out of desperation, and to show people that they can actually switch to it if they agree, because nothing kills choice more assuredly than false perceptions.

what is the actual opposite of the moral virtue of hard work?

No, instinct is cool, I just don't see it working well.
Immoral virtue of hard work: domination. Okay, the path to get there is a bit complex... Subterfuge?
Moral Vice of Hard work: Obsession/Devotion/workaholic? Lol if workagolic translates to industry, industry versus industry mwahahaha!
Moral virtue of easy work: Freedom/Release/Charity... umm... "to expend your free time on worthy pursuits"...
Moral virtue of hard not-working: Judiciousness/patience.
...
Well I imagine that there is something somewhat viable that could come from all of that. Also I was quite hard on decay before, but it is worth noting that a "negative" alignment can, most likely, be used to more direct effect than positive ones can. Destruction is, afterall, more powerful than creation... Still, it is a bit of a P.R. nightmare to be associated with anything overtly negative, Just look at Kali... or any death god really...

[Roboson]

I mean, its a two vote system so everyone can pick their top two favorites. As for vote politics, I'm not really seeing anyone trading votes or constructing voting blocks. Barring that being done in secret, it just looks like people are voting for their favorites.

I wasn't trying to tell you couldn't vote for it, just pointing out it had less support as we're coming into the final stretch of decision making. Sure it can win, but its just further from victory than the other options. At least, judging by the strawpoll. Sorry if that was unclear. There is no political conspiracy behind my actions, at least as far as I can tell.