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[Akoto]

Hi all,

I made a thread a while back about having just returned to the game, many new features and all. I decided to punish myself with the desire to build a surface city, but I'm starting to fear that I royally screwed things up. Hopefully not, if someone has a good answer to the woes.

Here's a picture of what's there so far, with the dwarves temporarily residing in a small area off to the right. That's where they've been toiling day and night to make claystone blocks for the new city. This is the beginning, or its center.

https://imgur.com/a/8h2sW

As you may be able to see, I started off by building downward one level. I intended to construct buildings upwards from there, but have them sealed off at that bottom level. It'd let me grow subterranean crops to supplement the tons of apricots and persimmons I get from the surrounding trees. After that, I was going to flood what was left of the pit using a nearby river to close off the unused parts of said pit/for decorative purposes above ground. The Z-level above the pit, the surface level shown on the map, would be the actual ground level of the city. Hope all that makes some sense.

Anyway. I dug my one level pit, I manufactured a heap of claystone blocks, and I outlined the pit with a wall. As you can see, I then began covering the pit over by using the claystone blocks to build Floors (b < C < Floor). I was then going to build the city atop that. Problem is, I can't because the game considers a construction - the floors - to already be in the way. You can see that I was starting to build an inn for visitors as my first building, but the only reason its walls even exist is because I removed the floors under them. I can't build stairs up for a second floor, among other issues.

Is there some sort of alternate flooring you can construct and build upon, particularly for the surface? One wonders how you could make buildings more than one story tall if the Floor construction is considered as taking up the space.

Ah, how I hope I haven't wasted all of my work! It would've been easier if I hadn't tried to build over the pit, I'm sure, but someone suggested it and it seemed a sensible idea.

[XXXXYYYY]

The reason that you can't build constructed walls on constructed floors is because both are constructions. If you deconstruct the floor on a tile, you can build any other construction in its place, like stairs or walls. Most buildings, like workshops, etc. are not constructions; you can build any non-construction buildings you want on constructed floors.

Just remove any floors where you want walls, stairs, or fortifications, and you'll be fine.

[martinuzz]

Also note that a built wall automatically provides a floor tile on the tile above it.

[Salmeuk]

Akoto,

You can still achieve what you envision, just understand that you need to place the walls and stairs in spots that lack constructions. For example, if you were to build a three story house, you would need to build a staircase to reach each successive floor. This can be easily accomplished by stacking stairs on top of one another. A constructed up-stair will support a constructed up/downstair directly above it. For the roof, you can replace one of the wall tiles with a temporary constructed ramp. Build the ceiling and secure your dwarves, then deconstruct the ramp and build the final piece of wall.

It seems like you assumed that flooring needed to cover every imaginable tile of soil to create the effect of a constructed city, but in DF the rules are a bit more incidental what with only one construction allowed per space. My usual method is to build walls, then staircases, then each individual floor as they are needed. Floors can take a lot of blocks / bricks, so be prepared with at least a couple hundred materials stockpiled nearby, as well as a large force of idle workers to install them.

[Saiko Kila]

Is there some sort of alternate flooring you can construct and build upon, particularly for the surface? One wonders how you could make buildings more than one story tall if the Floor construction is considered as taking up the space.

One doesn't construct floors. Floors are not needed to build on, you can build walls over empty space, as long as there is either a construction or a natural wall/floor orthogonally located.

Build floors last, after everything else in vicinity is completed. If you need them only to access some place, build them as a temporary solution (for example from different material, like wood or clay, so they differ visually) and then deconstruct after no longer needed. Build final version only if you know there will be nothing on them (like passages or corridors).

Bridges can be used as a scaffolding to access some place without a need to build temporary floors (bridges can be built faster usually, and they take less materials, but an architect is needed). Just be careful not to attach a construction to the bridge only, it must be attached to some other construction or a natural wall/floor/stairs or it collapses.

[mobucks]

You can't grow subterranean plants on anything you expose to sunlight.
What game version are you running? Looks like you have the old trees still. There have been some big updates since then.

[IT 000]

Also some tips for above ground construction:
1 start with the corners. Having to go back to one because the dwarves built around it is fiddly.

2 Learn how to prevent climbers or you're going to have a bad time.

3 Learn how to prevent jumpers or you're going to have a bad time.

[Sanctume]

I do plenty of above ground forts. 

1. I use d-d-m to mark designate dig further down z-level to use as visual plans for walls, and stairs and entry points.
Note this includes 1 tile overhang so this plan applies to z+1 level above the surface.

2. I use d-h-m mark channel on surface for the wall perimeter of where the walls will be constructed. 

3. When possible, I include a 2-wide dry moat around the wall perimeter. 

4. I construct stairs connecting z+0 to z+1, then wall corners, then fill in the wall. 

5. Once the surface walls are up, dig the dry moat.

6. Secure the entrance, be it using raising bridge, or enclosed hatch cover entry lockable from above.

7. With stairs to access z+1, construct floors according to the plan, then do walls last.   It is necessary to construct temporary floors to place corner walls overhang. 

8. Continue building up if plans deems it.  On the last floor, construct a temporary up ramp next to a corner wall.  This will provide access to the roof where floor can be place to act as ceiling for the last floor of the building. 

9. After the roof is completed, deconstruct the up ramp and replace with constructed floor. 

[Akoto]

You can't grow subterranean plants on anything you expose to sunlight.
What game version are you running? Looks like you have the old trees still. There have been some big updates since then.

0.43.05.

I can't stand to play the game without a graphics set, and Mayday (my old go to) hasn't been updated to current version. This was the closest I could find to that look, and the closest to current version, as well.

I think there was some other reason, too, but can't recall. Long day.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Still having a hard time salvaging what I've already built, but it's very slowly but surely getting worked out. I hope.

[Immortal-D]

You can't grow subterranean plants on anything you expose to sunlight.
What game version are you running? Looks like you have the old trees still. There have been some big updates since then.

0.43.05.

I can't stand to play the game without a graphics set, and Mayday (my old go to) hasn't been updated to current version. This was the closest I could find to that look, and the closest to current version, as well.

I think there was some other reason, too, but can't recall. Long day.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Still having a hard time salvaging what I've already built, but it's very slowly but surely getting worked out. I hope.

More pictures!

[Akoto]

More pictures!

I haven't forgotten you.

Found a way to keep the graphics set I want but use the latest DF version, so I'm switching to that. Unfortunately, the old save doesn't seem to be updating to include the changes. I shall have to say goodbye to my fruit tree-laden paradise embark zone and start over. Fortunately, I wasn't far into the city.

Maybe I'll make a thread where appropriate to document the progress of my fresh attempt.

[FantasticDorf]

Mass casting obsidian aboveground would be your best second bet for a established fortress & atleast a central keep with no construction overlaps and public outside buildings at ground level.

Involves pumpstacking lava to the surface, walling it off & laying it flat in a reservoir, then dropping water from 2 levels above, integrating the hard part of the pump into the wall and moving it up as you go along, then feel free to carve out the insides & outsides with stairs when you've deconstructed the 'cast' of the tall scaffolding around it also used to hold the lava & water in place.

                WPP
+               +
+               +
+LLLLLLLLLLLLLLL+
+++++++++++++++++

If you're smart you might be able to put a pump into the wall ready at every level and then remotely start/shut off flow to each with floodgates/bridges.

[Akoto]

Seems like it would kind of be a geographic stroke of luck to find readily accessible lava located reasonably near a generous source of water two levels above, no?

[FantasticDorf]

Pumping it from the magma sea reliably (just fills back in automate to save dwarf-power) and a river/local water landmark should be reasonably straightforward, the only complication being how much FPS moving these liquids about makes.

Watery caverns also apply.