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[Tiruin]

Imic

notquitethere I have several reasons to be suspicioud of him, but I don't want to say any of them. I want to see what he thinks and what he says, but I don't think I'll get up to anything until tommorrow
Juicebox I haven't played mafia on the forum much, although I've done it a lot in real life, my playstile is usually to watch in the corner for signs of lying when questioned, and try to piece things together from that. I'm going to see now if that works on a forum.

1. Why keep those suspicions to yourself? If your suspicions are well founded, then what's the disadvantage of saying them now?
2. Instead of being passive and waiting for others to ask me questions, why not take the initiative? You can ask me questions directly. If I'm scum, then this would only help your case. Either I would answer your questions and potentially reveal more lies, or I would refuse to answer them, which would be suspicious in itself. What's the downside?

What's your opinion of Maximum Spin?

I am suspicious of Notquitethere, because during the night stage, I recieved a message saying that a cultist was whispering innmy ear, asking me to join. I do not intend to join any such institution, and I have not replied, but notquitethere was the first person to acknowledge me, by asking what I wanted to do differently this time around. I'm suspicous if him because of the way he said that. I can also successfully say that you are not the cult finder, since you voted to lynch me, [glow=blue,2300]when you could have reccruited me properly tonight if I survived.[/glow]
Now I have RL stuff to do.

Err, I've color coded some statements that are contradictory ._.

Also knowing FoU, he'll mod-extend this due to sickness and unavailability of votecount.

kingawsume and BlackHeartKabal: At the time of either of you voting, were you aware of the hammer system? Your posts both give that impression hopping on the idea of a mislynch.

[randomgenericusername]

Still pfp

Were you aware when you wrote this, that no lethal actions were taken N0?

Why is Maximum Spin the 'safest' choice of lynch here? What are you comparing him to?

I was aware and is also one of the only reasons I would be okay with risking a misslynch. If someone had died we would have been thinking this more carefully.

A lot of people was suspicious about him for the "not answering questins because they are stupid" and right now we don't have any stronger leads since it's just day 1. It's still better to misslynch than abstaining and no lynching because we can gain information from that flip and from who voted or didn't vote. A no lynch is pretty much a wasted day.

[Imic]

@Tiruin...
Crap.
I said that assuming that he would think I would join him the next night, but I think that saying that was a terrible idea.
To whomever is in charge of some evil cult: You saw nothing.

[notquitethere]

Imic

I am suspicious of Notquitethere, because during the night stage, I recieved a message saying that a cultist was whispering innmy ear, asking me to join. I do not intend to join any such institution, and I have not replied, but notquitethere was the first person to acknowledge me, by asking what I wanted to do differently this time around. I'm suspicous if him because of the way he said that. I can also successfully say that you are not the cult finder, since you voted to lynch me, when you could have reccruited me properly tonight if I survived.
Now I have RL stuff to do.

If you're telling the truth, then yeah I can see why that would have been a reason for suspicion. But:

A. If that was why you were suspicious, why weren't you voting me?
B: When did you plan on telling us there could be a cult in the game?! That's big, game-changing news!

Maximum Spin

NQT is probably scum. At this point in the game, the wavefunctions are still mostly uncollapsed so I have very little actual confidence in this assessment, but, if pressed, he(?) would be my second vote after RGU.

What's your rationale here? Just your gut or do you actually have a case?

It's actually not. We had much better earlygame at the last place I used to play.

I don't doubt this, but I'm curious what the better way is. While players have no info D1, it's mostly smoke and mirrors. This game is a bit different though as some of us have some investigation info from last night.

It's situational, but I'm sure we've all seen the kind of conspiracies and misdirections I'm talking about. For example, in a BYOR like this, I might fabricate a coordinating set of fake abilities to subvert investigations and explain away "mislynching".

Do you think it looks like anyone's doing that? I think we're seeing more vote co-ordination/band-wagoning than normal for B12, but if we don't get enough people about a lynch then scum won't get lynched.

Kinga

There's nobody outwardly suspicious (yet) that catches my attention.

So you're bandwagoning Maximum Spin enough to lynch him, but there's no one suspicious yet?? Something doesn't add up here.

Juicebox

No NQT, I'm not afraid to place pressure. What is your opinion on D1 town gambits? On gambits in general? Do you think this is the type of game where town gambits will be useful?

I bloody love gambits, not going to lie. The purpose of the game is to have fun and they make the game more fun. They aren't, however, a safe play and often are unwise. I think that if they're cleverly applied, then town gambits are fine on any day.

Silthuri

Because you don't have any reason to suspect anyone and you pulled my name out of a hat probably?

Is it true that you don't have any reason to suspect anyone?

How did you reach this conclusion from you asking me why you'd suspect me? Right now my strongest suspicion is on the person who voted for an evil trope, but I've no solid leads. Are you fishing for investigative roles or something?

You said that I must not have any reason to suspect anyone, so that made me think that logically you would also consider yourself to have no reason to suspect anyone. Anyway the game has moved on and people now have suspicions, myself included so I'm fine to drop the point.

Tiruin

Also foin. Hilarity Ensues, but since I'm a SO SRS GRUMP

Aww Tiwuin don't be gwump

Tawa

do you

genuinely

think I haven't heard of misdirection schemes

Your argument here is weak sauce, it's all WIFOM.

[Tiruin]

Imic

I am suspicious of Notquitethere, because during the night stage, I recieved a message saying that a cultist was whispering innmy ear, asking me to join. I do not intend to join any such institution, and I have not replied, but notquitethere was the first person to acknowledge me, by asking what I wanted to do differently this time around. I'm suspicous if him because of the way he said that. I can also successfully say that you are not the cult finder, since you voted to lynch me, when you could have reccruited me properly tonight if I survived.
Now I have RL stuff to do.

If you're telling the truth, then yeah I can see why that would have been a reason for suspicion. But:

A. If that was why you were suspicious, why weren't you voting me?
B: When did you plan on telling us there could be a cult in the game?! That's big, game-changing news!

To forward a note I have that I noticed wasn't mentioned until the new replies bop'd this back into my newbox (thanks post but NOT preview :V), I noticed the cult mention too, but the contradictoryness (noted also in the below paragraph) nudged the importance from my mind.

How did you even know that it was, specifically, a CULTIST, whispering something in your ear, asking you to join? (I recall instances of masons or non-cult being able to do that calling too, in...really unorthodox games [GlyphGryph's Emperor game where I was a third-party 'worm' that could die and hop onto another person and make them third-party {and then I pick the only person immune to it and lose :v but that's a total aside} comes to mind]

@Tiruin...
Crap.
I said that assuming that he would think I would join him the next night, but I think that saying that was a terrible idea.
To whomever is in charge of some evil cult: You saw nothing.

No I get it, it however may read off really badly for other people. I am biased by experience, but I question (and back up NQT's note) of the idea--assuming that you assumed it was a cultist BY assumption--of your reasoning.

When you got that PM, what did you think?

And based on your first impressions, what did you think about posting about it? Did you have any other impressions in mind?

[Imic]

My first thougths were more or less "Nope".
@NotQuiteThere I'm waiting until a bit later to see what everyone is up to before I vote for someone, but now that you mention it, I might as well.
Notquitethere

[Tawa]

Your argument here is weak sauce, it's all WIFOM.

Which is why I admitted, four posts later, that it was bad. I mean, come on, don't jump down my throat before reading everything I've said.

[Maximum Spin]

NQT is probably scum. At this point in the game, the wavefunctions are still mostly uncollapsed so I have very little actual confidence in this assessment, but, if pressed, he(?) would be my second vote after RGU.

What's your rationale here? Just your gut or do you actually have a case?

Ehhh, "case" is a subjective statement. If you're asking, could I lay out my reasoning in full and expect others to follow it, then no; that's just not how my brain works. (In MBTI terms, I'm an N.) But I wouldn't call it a gut feeling either. I have a detailed mental image of how an NQT Who Is Scum acts and how an NQT Who Is Town does, and, while it's hard to say anything this early because there's obviously a lot of overlap, you're matching the first pattern more closely than the second. Explaining how the model works would compromise its usefulness, even if it was possible. From my perspective, it feels like... one of those "Netflix recommendations" neural-net AIs sitting inside my brain (which makes sense since a brain is, in fact, a neural network), categorising stuff based on observations without being able to explain what a "buddy comedy" or "foreign-language indie film" actually are.

I realise this all sounds rather smug and not terrifically helpful, which is why I try not to go into it.

I don't doubt this, but I'm curious what the better way is. While players have no info D1, it's mostly smoke and mirrors. This game is a bit different though as some of us have some investigation info from last night.

Instead of asking silly questions that don't actually separate town from mafia and applying "pressure" in the form of random votes in the vain hope that someone will actually be dumb enough to take it personally and slip up, there was a lot more focus on watching and waiting, and on interacting to gauge the reactions of *other people watching you interact* instead of the people you're interacting with, whose responses should already be totally predicted. Of course, there were always some people milling about randomly (although still in what I would consider to be more usefully directed ways), which was necessary to generate that activity to wait and watch in the first place, but I'm talking about what I saw the best players doing. Unfortunately, pace kinga's "if you liked that so much just go back", I'm still there, but we don't play mafia anymore because most of the players literally died. :/

Do you think it looks like anyone's doing that?

Nope, more's the pity.

I think we're seeing more vote co-ordination/band-wagoning than normal for B12, but if we don't get enough people about a lynch then scum won't get lynched.

Doesn't look much like they will if you do, either.

[Tiruin]

My first thougths were more or less "Nope".
@NotQuiteThere I'm waiting until a bit later to see what everyone is up to before I vote for someone, but now that you mention it, I might as well.
Notquitethere

Could...I ask details please, Imic? You're all over the place, and it is either unlike you for that kind of behavior, or you are stressed by something totally unrelated to Mafia.

Details too, regarding the questions I asked towards you. And after that, what is your real case on NQT? It looks built on the foundational assumption of..."He talked to me first about something tangentially related to this assumption".

PPE: Max, do you respond more to NQT over others for a reason? Because that's what I've noted in your posts while summarizing them. I still have the whole 'how am I associated with NQT and Imic' unanswered. If you're going to remark about others' methods--where is yours?

Also what is anyone's understanding of 'Majority vote' mean in terms of quantity? I counted 7 who voted Maximum Spin and thought that was when the hammer technically fell.

[Imic]

Yes, I am just gripping onto the first thing I see. When I did the last few posts, I was in the middle of something, and I wasn't really thinking, and I forgot a lot of reasoning I was piling up.
Notquitethere unvote

This is what showed up. Obviously, I am not directly quoting due to Mafia rules.

Whispers from nowhere, whispers asking you a question. Whispers giving you an offer. Will you join their cult?

[randomgenericusername]

I mean if we are playing with hammers then the day ended quite a while ago when Maximum Spin was hammered.
So now we have a cult? I'll admit that I really like thirds because they always get the best roles and abilities.But since I'm a townie this is pretty bad news for us. Anyone could be recruited into the cult.

[Maximum Spin]

PPE: Max, do you respond more to NQT over others for a reason?

Yes: NQT's questions have so far been quality questions, although not always entirely well-phrased. (That 'or' in 'Just your gut or do you actually have a case?', as if those are mutually exclusive or mutually exhaustive at all, rather rankled, for example!)

I still have the whole 'how am I associated with NQT and Imic' unanswered.

Eh, fine.

Where do you even get this silly idea that you are associated with anyone? Correlation doesn't imply causation. Depending on other details, certain parts of your pattern become more salient. For example, a major factor in your own pattern is the inner tension you have regarding (in)activity, and how much you might over- or under-compensate as mafia depending on the actions of your teammates. Things like this then interact with suspicions about other people, so the reason NQT and RGU came up is simply because I had already mentioned them, not because you are somehow associated with them in particular.


Anyway, due to reasons, I can confirm that Imic was explicitly told that there was a cult.

[Tiruin]

PPE: Max, do you respond more to NQT over others for a reason?

Yes: NQT's questions have so far been quality questions, although not always entirely well-phrased. (That 'or' in 'Just your gut or do you actually have a case?', as if those are mutually exclusive or mutually exhaustive at all, rather rankled, for example!)

How did you see all the other questions?

Because 'quality' is a very...idiosyncratic term. I looked at NQT's questions, and discarded the username--those questions are the same as the ones you did not answer. The wording may be different, but the grammar and semantics is not so different that the underlying meaning is on an equal level.

PPE: Max, do you respond more to NQT over others for a reason?

Yes: NQT's questions have so far been quality questions, although not always entirely well-phrased. (That 'or' in 'Just your gut or do you actually have a case?', as if those are mutually exclusive or mutually exhaustive at all, rather rankled, for example!)

I still have the whole 'how am I associated with NQT and Imic' unanswered.

Eh, fine.

Where do you even get this silly idea that you are associated with anyone? Correlation doesn't imply causation. Depending on other details, certain parts of your pattern become more salient. For example, a major factor in your own pattern is the inner tension you have regarding (in)activity, and how much you might over- or under-compensate as mafia depending on the actions of your teammates. Things like this then interact with suspicions about other people, so the reason NQT and RGU came up is simply because I had already mentioned them, not because you are somehow associated with them in particular.


Anyway, due to reasons, I can confirm that Imic was explicitly told that there was a cult.

Well Mr. passive aggressive, perhaps it would help you to look at what I say rather than demean me and skim by thought alone.

Spoiler: You don't seemingly recall what you've said (click to show/hide)

Also, another question for Maximum Spin:

What's your read on each player that's voting for you?

I don't buy randomgenericusername's "I just have a gut feeling of wrongness!" line at all. That would be, like, kindergartener level of play or worse if he actually meant that. That whole post just reeks of stirring ambiguity to try to make it easier to get away with voting to lynch a town player while still getting to say "welp, guess I was wrong" afterward.
I'm 95% confident that kingawsume, on the other hand, is just naturally that pompous and doesn't necessarily imply sinister intent, though I'm certainly not ruling it out.
I'm leaning anti-BHK, but not strongly, yet.
I also haven't been keeping track of who's voting for what, so I don't know who else falls into that category... so I'll just offer my thoughts on everyone, since I'm swapping out as soon as FOU is back anyway.

NQT is probably scum. At this point in the game, the wavefunctions are still mostly uncollapsed so I have very little actual confidence in this assessment, but, if pressed, he(?) would be my second vote after RGU.
I'm only the normal level of suspicious of Tiruin at the moment. If NQT is scum, however, and especially if RGU isn't, the suspicion level would go way up.
You, in contrast, I'm fairly benevolent toward. I don't currently think you're mafia. it's early yet, of course; that might have changed had things gone differently.
Tawa. Tawa's got something faintly screwy going on, but isn't really on my "probably mafia" list. Keep an eye on that guy though.
juicebox has been pretty inactive, which is often suspicious. At this point, I would probably get on board a bandwagon against him, because, *irrespective* of whether he's mafia or not, knowing whether he is would narrow down those aforementioned wavefunctions substantially. But I'm not going to throw a vote against him on my own, at the moment, when there are other people I could be investigating.
And lastly, Imic: Imic, how suspicious I am of you would depend entirely on how you respond to that message you should have received last night. If you continue to ignore it, especially now that you know I know about it, well, that would suggest to me that you already have other allegiances.

Incidentally, you know, there's a very important reason for not sharing your suspicions right away: because sharing your suspicions changes how people react, which changes how your ongoing investigation develops. Watching silently allows you to keep pruning down the possibilities without having to account for the way your own interaction will affect the entangled state.

Anyway, due to reasons, I can confirm that Imic was explicitly told that there was a cult.

Why didn't YOU say anything about it?

[Imic]

Anyway, due to reasons, I can confirm that Imic was explicitly told that there was a cult.

Maximum spin, please explain this statement. How can you confirm this? Do you have a detective role?

[Tiruin]

Gah post != preview.

To add to the paragraph below the spoiler:

Please check your own wording too. It sounds a lot better when thought about, but may look different when typed out. I don't know this "normal level" of suspicious. I don't know how it is connected with NQT and RGU, and it going "way" up. So it bears to reason that perhaps, I may be associated to them in what I presume you intended.

The unspoken reasoning you had when you typed that is only known now when I had to ask, and ask again to your sounding annoyance.