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Author Topic: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread  (Read 73178 times)

Verdant_Squire

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #105 on: January 20, 2019, 04:03:43 pm »
Quote from: Urist McScoopbeard on November 28, 2018, 04:12:19 pm
Are there an conditions which are favorable to A.) large site population sizes, B.) larger armies, and C.) lots of wars between nations?

I'm just having a feeling for some procedurally generated violence on a mass scale recently.

It's a little hard to directly control war frequency, especially if you're only using advanced world parameters. Your best bet without modding would be to generate a small world with a lot of civilizations close together, but there's no guarantee that'll work. If you aren't adverse to raw modding, pumping how much civs value war would definitely lead to a direct increase in wg violence in general.

Increasing world population in general could actually be helped by turning down savagery a bunch, since that value seems directly related to how populated sites end up being.

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Milkbot

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #106 on: March 28, 2019, 05:45:08 am »
I'm looking for a balanced world: Some cold parts, some hot parts, some evil some good, some calm, some savage.

Minerals high preferably
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Tinnucorch

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #107 on: March 28, 2019, 10:59:02 am »
Default settings already produce balanced worlds, at least in geographic and climatic terms.

For making minerals more frequent you just have to tweak the "mineral scarcity" option in advanced worldgen. I think that, by default, it's at 2500; lowering it to 1500-1000 should be more than enough.
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feelotraveller

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #108 on: March 28, 2019, 09:21:25 pm »
Yeah, default settings work well.  Just choose 'everywhere' for minerals (or maybe 'frequent' if 'everywhere' gives too much metal).
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Salmeuk

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #109 on: March 29, 2019, 11:23:47 pm »
I'm looking for advice on changing the terrain closest to rivers. I want to bring the hilly terrain closer to the riverbank, or make the valleys that form around rivers less uniform.

 Here I have a few screenshots to help explain what I mean.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My issue is that I want more interesting terrain closer to the rivers and brooks. Is this river flatland out of our control in world generation? I played with the erosion settings without much luck.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #110 on: March 30, 2019, 02:15:57 am »
You can hack the mid level tiles immediately prior to embark with the Region Manipulator http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164136.msg7454345#msg7454345 DFHack script. Note that the changes are temporary, i.e. if you change to focus to a different world tile the original configuration is regenerated. If you embark while the focus is retained the embark retains your modifications. I don't know what happens with Adventure mode visits to such fortresses, though.
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clinodev

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2019, 05:16:00 pm »
Hey folks!

I'm working on a tutorial sort of thing, and I want to generate a world that will be the same for every user regardless of operating system, either from a saved game folder or from seed.

I'm reading back through this and previous threads now, but I believe I've read there are or were things important for exact seed replication, like having no rejections? How do I avoid rejections and what should I be doing to make worlds that are as good as possible for replicating from seed?

As for the world itself, I'm not looking for anything special, so no world request, just generation advice. I'll be making a fairly standard 65x65 small region with no ocean edges required, open, shallow caverns, and short history (every-man outdated laptop-capable world.)

Also, if it's all regularized and there's no reason to worry about a 30 rejection world or whatever, that'd be great to know too!
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2019, 05:58:20 pm »
Rejections are a known source of world incompatibility, because, for some reason, different versions scramble the RNG seeds differently after a rejection. You'd avoid rejections by not running a weird PSV world (and not setting extreme regular parameters), but there's no guarantee, just a lower risk. Thus, regenerate worlds until there are no rejections.
Also note that RAW changes can result in different worlds because they can affect the RNGs differently.

There are probably outstanding bugs with some seeds not generating the same world even without rejections, but most of those bugs get squashed eventually.

It should also be noted that the dorfs generated on embark are "random", i.e. not the result of the world as such, so if you wanted a heavily controlled starting 7 you'd have to embark and save immediately, e.g. through an auto save (but you don't have any control of the dorfs generated in future migrant waves, and the events in the fortress [such as e.g. critter groups entering the map] will diverge rapidly.
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feelotraveller

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2019, 05:34:46 am »
The safest bet would be to make a starting save (i.e. post-worldgen) available on http://dffd.bay12games.com/.  Starting with 44.02 there have been some differences of world generation from the same seed using different OS's, at least on occasion, even without rejections.  It is also possible for new releases to change what gets generated from the seeds - it happened with different good/evilness zones a few versions ago.

The region folder could be saved post-world generation but prior to embark so that players can be walked through the process of selecting an embark and preparing carefully (or not ;)).

For a beginners tutorial I would recommend just using the normal world generation and leaving everything at medium apart from:
World Size - Small
History - Short
Savagery - Very Low
Mineral Occurence - Everywhere
The first two for performance reasons (could even go Smaller for size) while still having a rich game experience - very short histories can be somewhat lacking in, um, history.
The second two for easier game for beginners, although there are no guarantees.  :P

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clinodev

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #114 on: April 28, 2019, 11:08:11 pm »
Thanks for the great advice, PatrikLundell and feelotraveller!
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daggaz

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #115 on: April 30, 2019, 11:14:06 am »
To avoid world rejections, just set all the "minimum squares" requirements to zero.  Then play with the parameter settings (weighting, variance, etc for each variable) to ensure you likely generate the types of world you want in the first place.   If you are looking for interesting topography, especially large height differences, set "periodic erosion" very close to 0, but realize that you will get closer and closer to strange, cubic formations the closer you are to zero, which look a bit unnatural.  Also put elevation variance at a maximum, use an 8x8 grid, and set the weighting to something that highly prefers two significantly different elevation ranges (for example 5 0 0 5 1).

I prefer to have worlds with nearly all of these parameters set to max like this, and have maximum subregions enabled with no major oceans.  This gives LOTS of land with small ocean/lake squares, and 4x4 embarks typically have many opportunities to find a highly variable assortment of biomes and maximum fun.

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Vel Caldean

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #116 on: May 21, 2019, 11:52:38 am »
I find myself struggling with the worldgen. There are multiple things i want to achieve but i have no idea on how to achieve them individually let alone combine them.

  • A single round-ish Island/Continent with a rather smooth coastline (not to many pronounced bays). Whenever i get single-continent worlds they seem to have a very complicated coastline.
  • Largely flat terrain with sparsely distributed small mountain ranges. So far i can get the "rather flat terrain" to work but if i want any mountain ranges best i can get is a single massive mountain range. Alternatively i can get the small mountain ranges but then the plains seem to get sacrificed.
  • Many small lakes. Perfect would be freshwater.
  • Multiple necromancer towers early during world generation.
  • Optimally i want to cram all that into a 65x65 world.

Am i correct in assuming that island shape, plains and mountain ranges as well as lakes depend so strongly on the elevation that i cant get large plains and small mountain ranges with the same size of elevation mesh? As soon as i try to force things with weighted ranges or with a minimum count of the desired features the only thing i achieve is rejections.
How would i force Necromancer towers early?

If anyone wants to share his secrets for achieving any single item on the list above that would be much appreciated.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #117 on: May 21, 2019, 01:58:51 pm »
This matches all of the requirements, technically, except the lakes, in a 17x17.
That is: mostly flat, necromancer tower, round single continent, smooth coastline.
I'll do up a 33x33 shortly as well, with lakes.
You'll note there are no dark fortresses, (just a lot of Dark Pits) as a result of there being no HFS.  This seems to (?) create more opportunities for conflict and death, leading to necromancy within the first 500 years.
Spoiler: Small & Round Single Continent (click to show/hide)
Of course, you can remove the seeds and get many variations, but it doesn't generate too many rejections, from what I tried.  This is just to show you most of what you want is possible in a pocket world.
EDIT:
This one matches. 33x33 Two necro towers, flat, a non-ocean lake in the SW part of the world that is in range of both.  A single mountain range in the middle, reasonably smooth coastline.  This one has HFS, as well.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A third one, similar to the second, there's a single tile lake (it's probably 20% of an embark area) in the NW between two towers, but in the range of three.  Five total Towers, in the world.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 04:52:16 pm by vjek »
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Vel Caldean

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #118 on: May 21, 2019, 05:22:41 pm »
Thank you very much. This helps me a lot. Im going to try to keep adding things on top and try to modify until it deviates too much. The condition for necromancer towers seem to be quite dependent on time progression. Initially i was hoping for towers at the very beginning of history. Doesnt look like that is going to work out.
Ill play around and see what i can do.

Another question: There seems to be quite a demand for volcano embarks. Why is that? Just for the easy access to magma? Because volcanoes are just awesome? Or am i missing something gameplay related here?
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.44.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #119 on: May 21, 2019, 06:33:41 pm »
I think it's just the convenience of having magma forges available instantly, and an almost infinite supply that can be drained and refilled, at a Z-Level higher than the magma sea.
That may seem self evident, as that sentence is simply a description of a volcano.  However, those features are what makes things like warming all the hallways in a frozen embark, or weaponizing magma much easier, or possible at all.

When adjusting options to get necromancers, it's a combination of things, in my experience.  In particular, the things are:  having dwarves die, lots of civs, and lots of sites per civ.  This varies by world size, though, as if your world is too large, there's not enough conflict to have enough death, and the civs are too far apart to interact.
In a 33x33, for example, I've found a site cap of 15 and 20 civs, with 1000 per civ seems to work pretty well, with 10 secrets.  Having demons also seems to make dark fortresses possible, and goblins be far more aggressive or active.
It's possible just having the death from lots of titans, megabeasts, forgotten beasts, and semi-megabeasts might be enough?  I haven't tested that recently.

Another similar parameter set, Vel Caldean; this time, with evil regions, 9 necro towers total, and a lakefront embark with a reanimating/undead biome within range of 5 necro towers, also steel friendly:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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