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[PatrikLundell]

The reason for my question is that Legends Mode info (viewed in Legends Viewer) shows that an Elven civ contains 2500 animal people Blizzard Men (as well as a similar number of "animal" trolls). As far as I can determine, the pointy ears have somehow conquered a Dark Fortress more or less intact, and so has taken over its population. Given that the population now belongs to an Elven civ, the Blizzard Men ought to be considered citizens just as goblins are (as goblins are also inherently evil, but still can belong to any civ once conquered (or however they become citizens)).
The PSV world is mildly modded to get goblins to start exclusively on glaciers (for blizzard man access), all glaciers are made evil, and all biomes modified to contain all species legal to them.

[deathpunch578]

The reason for my question is that Legends Mode info (viewed in Legends Viewer) shows that an Elven civ contains 2500 animal people Blizzard Men (as well as a similar number of "animal" trolls). As far as I can determine, the pointy ears have somehow conquered a Dark Fortress more or less intact, and so has taken over its population. Given that the population now belongs to an Elven civ, the Blizzard Men ought to be considered citizens just as goblins are (as goblins are also inherently evil, but still can belong to any civ once conquered (or however they become citizens)).
The PSV world is mildly modded to get goblins to start exclusively on glaciers (for blizzard man access), all glaciers are made evil, and all biomes modified to contain all species legal to them.

I don't believe so, the reason that trolls and blizzard men are in goblin civs is because of the [SLAVER] tag, which I believe makes it so you can have things with [CAN_LEARN] as animals. I don't know much about the raws but I think this is why goblins can have trolls but dwarves can't. then the elves have them because of some strange shenanigans with world gen wars.

[PatrikLundell]

I agree with on the step with the goblin access to these creatures, and I also agree non goblins would normally not get access to them. However, given the world gen shenanigans actually happened, that raised the question. A follow on one is whether the elves would be willing to sell any of those tasty beak dogs they also acquired in the process. Sadly the gobbos didn't have any exotic cavern critters to potentially offer (think e.g. completely tame cave dragons), but I don't think I've ever seen them have any of those (probably because they rarely get any random nobles with TAME_EXOTIC who's got spare time to actually tame any).

[Fleeting Frames]

Probably not, given elves don't bring good mounts without pet(_exotic) in unicorns, so they probs won't bring evil ones either.

That said, easy to test, given how relatively little other things a dark fortress has.

[FantasticDorf]

~Snip~
The PSV world is mildly modded to get goblins to start exclusively on glaciers (for blizzard man access), all glaciers are made evil, and all biomes modified to contain all species legal to them.

I don't believe so, the reason that trolls and blizzard men are in goblin civs is because of the [SLAVER] tag, which I believe makes it so you can have things with [CAN_LEARN] as animals. ~SNIP~

Nope, blizzard peeps & trolls are semi-intelligent & [EVIL] creatures which sync's up with the goblins faction's [USE_EVIL_CREATURES] to find them and use them automatically when they settle on their biomes, same happens to ogres.

Slavery isn't relevant and there is no [SLAVER] tag, only slavery ethics which determine when people captured after worldgen battles are sent back to important settlements to work as citizens. They are not slaves, they are livestock though PatrickLundells situation is very curious.

You can by setting [PET_EXOTIC] on intelligent creature raws but intelligent pets in general are broken and non-intentional outside of gremlins (which are buggy and poorly optimized in themselves)

[PatrikLundell]

To clarify: Trolls are listed as "animals", while the Blizzard Men are marked as Animal People (they're not slow learners), rather than livestock.
I should probably embark near the elves to see if I get anything, but Fleeting Frames' assumption is incorrect, unfortunately, because the goblin resources have been added to the considerable list of elves resources, so the trolls would compete with 40 or so other "animals" for exports. Given that the 2000+ blizzard men should be concentrated in the dark fortress, embarking near it ought to give a good chance of getting them as visitors if proximity is taken into visitor account.
Time to embark/experiment. I'll return with whatever results I get.

[FantasticDorf]

To clarify: Trolls are listed as "animals", while the Blizzard Men are marked as Animal People (they're not slow learners), rather than livestock.

Nope, blizzard people on vanilla raws are evil slow learning livestock, sorry to burst your bubble.

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:BLIZZARD_MAN]
[DESCRIPTION:A large humanoid monster from the wild tundra.  It has translucent skin, icicles for teeth, red glowing eyes and pointed ears.]
[NAME:blizzard man:blizzard men:blizzard man]
[CASTE_NAME:blizzard man:blizzard men:blizzard man]
[CREATURE_TILE:'M'][COLOR:3:0:1]
[GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
[BIOME:GLACIER]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[LARGE_ROAMING][EVIL][DIFFICULTY:2][FREQUENCY:5] <- here buried between 3 tags
[POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][MEANDERER]
[CAN_LEARN][SLOW_LEARNER] <- here at the end.
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN]

~~ Etc Etc ~~

[PatrikLundell]

OK, I assumed Legends Viewer categorized them correctly (as well as the wiki having correct info: I checked that it didn't say slow learner, so unless I'm blind that page is incorrect).

[FantasticDorf]

Semi-sapients are a funny exception in that they can function as citizens in worldgeneration but aren't aught to, your legends viewer may be working correctly but the affecting gameplay is just bugs. Yes, but no basically.

I don't know if updating to the latest version & the released restrictions on inner-civ migration would actually encourage any to stay if you were playing as the goblin civ or in those specific exceptions that dwarves took over a goblin site, petitions would require the semi sapient to possess [CAN_PRODUCE_LOCAL_HEROES] and likely be broken on races that can't speak like trolls.

Elves have [USE_ANY_PET_RACE] anyway, so have just adopted the site creatures locally it looks like.

[PatrikLundell]

Given that my bubble has been burst and the embark is overrun by artifact questers that bring the FPS down below 20 (for 13 dorfs), I'm giving up after having seen the first elven caravan bring a panda and no other real creatures (I didn't check to see if there's vermin as well). The questers are mostly humans, a number of them are goblins, and some few individuals are elves. There are a couple of real bards in there as well, but no animal people of any kind.
Looks like the new DF arc isn't playable until the quester deluge has been dealt with.

[thegoatgod_pan]

As I recall, the trick to getting animals sent by elves in older versions was to anger them. When elves like your civilization, they bring high value to weight goods such as cloth. When they dislike you they bring the lowest value to weight things they have, which just happen to be tame giant animals.

As such, angry elves=caravans filled with giant animals, or used to be this way in older versions.