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Author Topic: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Fall 1965 - Final Design Phase)  (Read 83375 times)

NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #120 on: December 22, 2017, 07:25:17 am »

It seems to me that Bear Armour could be great with just a few tweaks.

Bear Necessities: Early trials of Bear Armour are promising, but reveal the need for more work. Primarily the motors could use an upgrade. A slightly more complex chemical formula produces a more potent version of electrogel, with a longer lasting charge, more power, and a slightly smaller profile. This in turn allows for slightly thicker armour plating, whilst also increasing the Bear Trooper's effective strength and speed.
Whilst we're at it, a review of the armour's structure will reveal any flaws or redundancies, letting us reinforce weak spots and make it slightly less cumbersome to get in and out of.
We've also put some more work into the helmet, upgrading the viewing slit into a proper (bulletproof) visor, which will not limit the user's range of vision (as much).
Oh, and slap some armour on the boots, for crying out loud. How is it even possible to have unarmoured feet?
(Note: the intention here is to increase the Oil cost by 1 in order to make improving performance easier.)

Let me know if you think of any other small tweaks that could improve it.


Anyway, I'd like to import something to let regular infantry kill tanks.
Quote
-AS-RPG28 A: A rocket-propelled grenade, fired out of a launch tube. The grenade itself consists of a conical shape with a narrow tube of propellent out the back, and twisted fins in the middle of the tube. The launch tube is 3cm wide, a meter long and the rocket fits in up to the fins, and is just a metal tube with a handle. To ignite the propellant, soldiers remove a pin, on the rocket, which is first clipped by a short chain to a trigger on the handle. The tube itself and each grenade each weigh 3kg. It is accurate enough to hit a tank out to almost 100 meters, after which it drops quickly. Rockets are available with warheads based on each type of grenade, including a HEAT conical shaped charge. Requires 2 ore, 1 oil.

Quote from: Vox
Revision:
Bear Necessities: (1) NUKE9.13

Import:
AS-RPG28 A: (1) NUKE9.13
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 04:37:05 pm by NUKE9.13 »
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #121 on: December 22, 2017, 09:25:57 am »

Currently, the feet and hands aren't plated. If you could fix that... maybe throw in some Bear Claws for the hands to use as melee weapons, I'd go for it.
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Madman198237

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #122 on: December 22, 2017, 10:31:04 am »

We can't plate hands immediately, too much work to mix that in with the other revisions. The feet SHOULD be armored, are they not actually protected? I can't find anything that mentions it.

As for the rocket, yes we should do that, and our first revision should be ICE-rockets for those things.

Quote from: Vox
Revision:
Bear Necessities: (2) NUKE9.13, Madman

Import:
AS-RPG28 A: (2) NUKE9.13, Madman
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #123 on: December 22, 2017, 10:59:31 am »

He's right, the feet are... somehow... unarmoured. Like, apparently the entire weight of the armour rests on unaugmented human feet? That should be an easy fix.

Armouring the hands, though, is trickier. We still want Bear Troopers to be able to wield weaponry, after all.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #124 on: December 23, 2017, 04:43:09 pm »

Don't really have an opinion on the import, so here.
Quote from: Vox
Revision:
Bear Necessities: (3) NUKE9.13, Madman, Jilladilla

Import:
AS-RPG28 A: (2) NUKE9.13, Madman
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #125 on: December 23, 2017, 08:25:33 pm »

I don't have strong opinions on the import either, but I react to this with "sure, let's go with that" instead of not voting.
Quote from: Vox dei
Revision:
Bear Necessities: (4) NUKE9.13, Madman, Jilladilla, Maximum Spin

Import:
AS-RPG28 A: (3) NUKE9.13, Madman, Maximum Spin
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #126 on: December 26, 2017, 09:45:15 am »

Whilst we wait, a future design to shore up our inevitably weak naval game:

ME-DD-6X "Chillwind": The Cataphract is a fine ship and all, but she has two main problems: one, she is expensive as all getout. Two, she is 20 years old.
So... time for a new ship. We need something smaller and cheaper than the Cataphract, something that is capable of patrolling the waves and taking out any threats to our control of the sea, and something that will make the world consider Mereth's navy to be cutting-edge. Meet the Chillwind.
The Chillwind is a destroyer, 150m long, with a primary armament of 2x2 125mm guns, based on those of the Cataphract but slightly smaller. She is also equipped with three missile/rocket launch areas, which are currently all taken up by modified Sarukh racks firing ICE rockets, but are designed to allow future weapon systems to be easily integrated. Naturally she also has several Velociraptors mounted in various locations, and we've made sure that there is space left over in case we ever want to install more (small) weapon systems.
What is noteworthy about the Chillwind is her hull. For rather than being armoured in steel, the Chillwind is armoured with ice. Or Pykrete, to be precise. Yes, she has a solid steel frame, which holds together a frozen hull. ICE-based refrigeration ensures that melting is even less of a problem than usual. Worth noting is that our Pykrete has been worked on by the DUC to ensure it is as strong as possible. This provides thick, solid armour, that is easy to repair even whilst underway, and is (thanks to ICE providing efficient refrigeration) relatively cheap. The Ore savings have been passed on to the rest of the ship, with critical systems armoured with high-quality alloys, so even if weaponry pierces the Pykrete, the ship will keep sailing.
The Chillwind has three GOFAST-burning turbines driving two shafts for propulsion.

Pykrete is just a cool material. IRL, the main problem making it was the cost of refrigeration (they calculated that the steel required to build the freezers needed to make the Habbakuk would be more than it would take to build the ship itself out of steel), but thanks to ICE, we can freeze things on the cheap. I'd estimate the cost of this destroyer at 3/3 (That'd be Expensive). I really want to capture the sea's Oil and use a design/revision to improve our native Oil production, since our chemistry-based weaponry needs a lot of Oil- I'd like to get our Oil production up to 3 relatively soon.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #127 on: December 26, 2017, 11:17:46 am »

Wasn't there a project in real life to build boats out of pykrete?

I'd go for that if we aren't being heavily pressured where it wouldn't help.

Quote from: Vox dei lux
Revision:
Bear Necessities: (5) NUKE9.13, Madman, Jilladilla, Maximum Spin

Import:
AS-RPG28 A: (4) NUKE9.13, Madman, Maximum Spin, FallacyofUrist
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Jilladilla

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #128 on: December 26, 2017, 04:49:36 pm »

Wasn't there a project in real life to build boats out of pykrete?

I'd go for that if we aren't being heavily pressured where it wouldn't help.

Habbakuk was a Canadian proposal for a floating airbase made of pykrete during WW2. Yes, floating airbase; as Habbakuk was just that big, the smaller proposals made the largest battleships and carriers look tiny.

IIRC, it was proposed fairly late in the war, so ran into the 'So why do we need this?' issue.

Still, our only Naval Asset is the Cataphract, and one of the 2 lanes has a naval focus, so maybe shelve the Moletank for the Chillwind. Ah right, maybe see about mounting an Earth Ear for use as a crude SONAR system. It won't be ideal of course, being built for underground navigation, but it'd likely be better than nothing if they went the more sneaky route navally.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #129 on: December 26, 2017, 04:52:45 pm »

Freezing a ship-shaped chunk of water (and wood) with ICE? Thinking too small.
Try freezing a city-shaped chunk of water with ICE.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #130 on: December 26, 2017, 05:39:19 pm »

I mean, yes, that would be cool. But we need a cheap-ish ship to cover the seas with. Although, once we have that, if we still need more naval power...

ME-FF-6X "Black Ark": The Black Ark is not a ship. It is a Floating Fortress. A towering citadel constructed of steel and Pykrete, ICE pumping through the whole thing like the blood of a great leviathan, the Black Ark is approximately 1500 meters long. Yes, one and a half kilometers. It is also 800 meters wide, and has a draft of 35 meters (meaning it cannot actually 'dock' at any port in Mereth).
I won't go into the armaments in detail. Suffice it to say that it bristles with every sort of gun we can build, including many 300mm upsized Cataphract cannons, and can easily be refitted to use anything else we can possibly imagine. It also has a full-length runway, and two shorter runways. Its fully outfitted command center is the envy of military HQ back in Mereth's capital. It even has a drydock capable of performing total repairs on Chillwind-class destroyers, not to mention the wet docks all around it, where Cataphracts and even larger ships can moor up to resupply and perform minor repairs.
The Black Ark is self-propelled, albeit at a crawl. Massive engines deep within the bowels of the Ark drive a multitude of propellers located all across the 'vessel'.
We do not expect the Black Ark to be anything short of a National Effort. Indeed, it is designed such that it can be expanded (or shrunk) arbitrarily, meaning it always costs just short of Theoretical, with new wings and weapons added on as our resource base improves and new technology is designed.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #131 on: December 28, 2017, 02:41:45 am »

Bear Necessities: Early trials of Bear Armour are promising, but reveal the need for more work. Primarily the motors could use an upgrade. A slightly more complex chemical formula produces a more potent version of electrogel, with a longer lasting charge, more power, and a slightly smaller profile. This in turn allows for slightly thicker armour plating, whilst also increasing the Bear Trooper's effective strength and speed.
Whilst we're at it, a review of the armour's structure will reveal any flaws or redundancies, letting us reinforce weak spots and make it slightly less cumbersome to get in and out of.
We've also put some more work into the helmet, upgrading the viewing slit into a proper (bulletproof) visor, which will not limit the user's range of vision (as much).
Oh, and slap some armour on the boots, for crying out loud. How is it even possible to have unarmoured feet?
(Note: the intention here is to increase the Oil cost by 1 in order to make improving performance easier.)
Revision: Bear Necessities
Normal: (2+3) = 5: Average

First: The person that was in charge of armoring the feet was fired. Then the person who hired him was fired. Then a person was picked off the street to do the job instead. They have done a stellar job in ensuring the feet are just as armored as the rest of the body.

But other than that, the new version of Bear Armor is very competent. We've done some tweaking to the Electrogel motors that, when combined with pouring more oil into the Electrogel vats more complex Electrogel formulae, increase motor strength and Electrogel charge. A fully-charged suit will now last 16 hours at consistent high-power usage, but in reality it won't be used nearly as much as that because our men will have to guess what the charge is at, leading to low confidence in it keeping a good charge. Speed remains the same - as it's a bit more than just "higher-powered motors", we felt it was best to focus our efforts in the armor and strength department. So Bear Armor users now have roughly twice the strength of a regular soldier and once again their toughness is similar to that of the Tiger armor. Their strength still isn't anywhere near enough to lift tanks (we've already sent an apology to the family of the Bear Armour soldier that was crushed by a tank in testing), unfortunately.
The improved Electrogel adds an additional 1 Oil to the overall cost.

The addition of some connecting parts and switches for those connecting parts has also improved disembarking and embarking times. It's still by no means an easy or quick process, but soldiers no longer have to manually take apart the suit to enter and exit it; we estimate about 30 seconds for those trained in it. In addition, occupants can now exit themselves, though it'll take a relatively significant amount of time.
Bulletproof glass in the visor has increased visibility to the point where it's no longer a significant disability, though awareness is still down compared to unarmored soldiers and the glass isn't anywhere near as strong as the rest of the armor.



Import: AS-RPG28 A
The last import arrives as scheduled. The Forenian representative informs us that Forenia wishes everyone luck in the coming battle, and promises that Forenia will continue (indirectly) supporting Mereth in their just cause for battle. Whatever it is.

Quote
AS-RPG28 A: A rocket-propelled grenade, fired out of a launch tube. The grenade itself consists of a conical shape with a narrow tube of propellent out the back, and twisted fins in the middle of the tube. The launch tube is 3cm wide, a meter long and the rocket fits in up to the fins, and is just a metal tube with a handle. To ignite the propellant, soldiers remove a pin, on the rocket, which is first clipped by a short chain to a trigger on the handle. The tube itself and each grenade each weigh 3kg. It is accurate enough to hit a tank out to almost 100 meters, after which it drops quickly. Rockets are available with warheads based on each type of grenade, including a HEAT conical shaped charge. Requires 2 ore, 1 oil.
The AS-RPG28 A is Cheap with our current resources.


Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)

The Combat Phase of 1960 has begun. The offensive will begin shortly.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 02:56:25 am by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Design Phase)
« Reply #132 on: December 28, 2017, 05:41:35 am »

Combat Phase 1960
Link to Combat Report (Core Thread)

Our funding luckily hasn't been impacted, but the rest of the military is annoyed with the recent losses to Aratam. But hope is far from gone.

The Mountains
The generals in the military are absolutely livid with the recent loss in the mountains. How the hell can Aratam already pierce Bear Armour?! The entire offensive relied on Bear Armour!
While it's still a substantial advantage, Bear Armour did represent the bulk of our infantry's advantage. They're the only new thing our infantry has and have the only new weapon our infantry has. According to intelligence, Aratam's rifles can only fire twenty armor-piercing shots and these AP shots are rarely lethal. But the fact that they can reliably hurt our Bear Armour soldiers if they're out of cover means our one advantage is no longer the steamroller we relied on it to be.

Our lessened advantage against Aratam's upgraded rifle, enhanced troopers, and (to a much lesser extent) Raider APCs will result in us losing. Our best hope for next year are the ICE missiles which almost prevented the Aratam advance and will likely prevent any advance next year, but the military suggests doing anything that directly benefits the infantry.


The Sea
The admirals are "understandable" of their loss.
We have a few really good ships, they have many more okay ships but, more importantly, they have airplanes. The Cataphract can't go one-on-one with their carriers, and it also has Corsairs to worry about.

Not all is lost. While they do have airplanes, their navy still consists of two ship types and one - the Corsair - is quite outdated. If we were to create a carrier (which wouldn't be particularly hard with the Forenian assistance our R&D gets) we could leverage our superior air force, or we could go in some other direction.


Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Known Aratam Designs (click to show/hide)


The Design Phase of 1960 has begun. Also vote on the Embassy design for the "Diplomatic Relations" challenge.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 07:44:48 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Design Phase)
« Reply #133 on: December 28, 2017, 09:24:08 am »

:/

Well that could've gone better.

Question: what the hell are Rare Chemicals and why don't we have them?

Anyway. To help both at sea and in the mountains, I suggest we design a plane. Specifically, one with an extremely long range, so that it can patrol well out to sea without needing a carrier. Something like

ME-LRMRA-60 "Blizzard": The Blizzard is a Long-Range Multi-Role-Aircraft, designed with Forenian assistance to be the last word in aerial superiority.
Striking about the Blizzard is the unusual X-shaped wing profile. Conventional wisdom suggests that X-shaped wings don't work (well). Conventional wisdom is wrong; correctly designed, they provide increased lift and manoeuvrability due to some weird, recently discovered aerodynamic effects. Combined with two aT-J60g engines (the al-Tawrbinat company's latest creation, specifically designed to utilise GOFAST fuel to the fullest), the Blizzard is slightly faster than the Lightning Streak, more manoeuvrable, and- thanks to Forenian doctrines of double-redundancy (the plane can fly with two wings missing, and there are backups for every critical system)- sturdier.
Less immediately obvious, but no less important, are the large GOFAST fuel tanks, which give the Blizzard incredible flight times, letting them patrol far away from base for hours on end.
The Blizzard is armed with four Velociraptor autocannons (one on each wing). It has bomb mounts capable of holding one tonne of bombs (the Forenians seemed incredibly divided over the decision to add this feature). It also mounts 8 ICE rockets (modified Sarukh ones).
To preserve pilot sanity, a very rudimentary autopilot has been installed, capable of flying in a straight line and nothing more. Computer systems also provide aiming assistance. We shall endeavour to include rudimentary radar as well.
Not described: all the other basic aeroplane stuff. We're MAD engineers here, we can leave the boring details to subordinates.
The Blizzard will tear through Aratam's outdated Cannalan planes like paper, then continue to devastate targets both on land and at sea with barrages of bombs and rockets.
Despite its superiority to the Lightning Streak, the advances in technology since '42 mean that the Blizzard is not expected to cost any more than its predecessor; more efficient engines and better metallurgy reduce the cost even as superior range and construction increase it.

For our embassy design, well, clearly Forenia wants their embassy to be just as secure as our Design Devision HQ- ie, constructed deep underground. They also want it up and running ASAP. So it makes total sense that we invest heavily into underground construction equipment to help build it:

Vast Underground Forenian Embassy: Tastefully decorated with marble statues, rich wooden panelling, and thick carpets, the Forenian Embassy is a luxurious home for our ally's ambassadors. It is also located 200ft below the surface, for security purposes. In order to quickly excavate the vast underground facility, we have upgraded the Burrower into the ME-UT-60 "Excavator", a larger vehicle capable of digging substantially deeper, equipped with an upgraded Earth-Ear system with increased range and accuracy- to facilitate more precise digging, because we wouldn't want our esteemed friends to reside in a wonky embassy.
Someone suggested installing a Velociraptor on the Excavator, in case Aratam insurgents attack the building site... but that would be a silly waste of our ally's money.
Once the project is completed, we will try to find some use for the remaining construction equipment- to show our allies that we are conscientious with our resources, and don't just throw things away once we're done with them. Perhaps the mining industry would appreciate the ability to dig deeper and faster as well? And, I mean, I suppose we could deploy Excavators in combat, now that you mention it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 07:32:48 pm by NUKE9.13 »
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #134 on: December 28, 2017, 11:52:29 am »

So Bear Armor users now have roughly twice the strength of a regular soldier

This isn't listed in the designs section.
~~~
If Aratam does catgirls before we do...
~~~
Quote
Normal Design:
ME-LRMRA-60 "Blizzard" (2): NUKE9.13, FallacyofUrist

Embassy Design:
Vast Underground Forenian Embassy (2): NUKE9.13, FallacyofUrist

One alternative to the underground embassy would be one made out of pykrete, if you like.

For our revision, I'd suggest something like...

Polar Bear Armor:
We make several more improvements to our Bear Armor. In order of priority:
1. Camouflage. A version of Bear Armor is now available that heavily resembles a polar bear. This allows the armor's wearer to hide in snow with extreme ease. Sure, the enemy has those weird psychic people, but they can't be everywhere. Comes with increased insulation.
2. Improved armor. Those armor-piercing rounds are bad news. The increased strength of a Bear Armor wearer allows us to replace the alloy used for Bear Armor plating with a heavier but tougher alloy at no additional cost.
3. Cheaper Electrogel. We work on cheapening our Electrogel formula. If that happens to increase the dyeing effect, we're fine with that.
4. Claws/hand armor. For crying out loud, armor the hands too! By using a set of very small connected metal plates, we can armor the hands while retaining flexibility. Think something like chainmail. To improve our Bear Armor melee abilities, the hand armor comes with a set of vicious metal claws.

Alternatively,

Moore's Law:
Several businessmen have seen the possibilities of our MXETE computer. Led by Edward Moore, each year they'll shrink and improve the power of our computers in exchange for the right to sell to us.

Because computer stuff has the potential to be really awesome.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 12:18:56 pm by FallacyofUrist »
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

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