Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 64 65 [66] 67 68 ... 74

Author Topic: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Fall 1965 - Final Design Phase)  (Read 82203 times)

TricMagic

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #975 on: September 10, 2019, 04:44:42 pm »

I'd say something about sense not mattering sometimes in this game. Most times, but not all the time.

Also, it is much easily to make a battleship if you don't have to worry about getting it off planet. Making it in the Docks would make production of any such ship fairly simple.

Ares is meant to serve multiple roles. And assembling something in space may fall under fire from enemies. Ares acts as living and research space, defense station, docks and shipyards, and observational platform. Along with having the computational power to serve as a guidance planner for our ships. At the moment, they usually need to be programmed on earth.

Beyond that, it is a Wonder. You may say we don't need one, but there could be advantages we don't know of. Their Wonder let's them do stuff too. I think I remember CW saying you could only have one. And Ares certainly counts. It's also very cool, which in and of itself is a reason to roll it.


This does bring up another point. Improved ICE might help, but only if it can be used. While solving the BEAR's overheating, I don't think the BEARs were ever designed with cooling in the first place. Likewise, since MICE uses Magmatite in it, it will bump a Firestorm variant to NE. I for one do not want them to be firing from orbit, so a Space Design, along with a revision for the BEARs, will likely be best to prevent Orbital Bombardment.



Sol flos regium- Growing a new plant.

Otherwise know as the Regal Sun Flower, this silver-blue plant was created by some of the more organically inclined in DUC using the some regolith and crossbreeding plants. By focusing on combining high oil content with high growth, it's a vine that produces flowers from water, sugar, and sunlight. Each flower eventually sprouts a fruit that is chock full of oils, such that nearly no animal can actually eat it. Well, actually, this oil is quite healthy for humans and animals in it's natural state(in small doses for supplements), but it can be broken down and used like ordinary oil in ICE and gels.

By growing them in greenhouses on the moon, we can get light directly, and keep the heat needed for these plants. The cold kills them otherwise, since they were bred in MAGMA itself, they're not adapted to freezing temperatures, we've checked. Likewise, too much water ends up killing them, and ordinary earth doesn't quite work for some reason to grow them.

Well, the end result is that we gain an oil that can be used to produce ICE and it's derivatives, as well as gels. Its not that good as a fuel though, but since we often use ICE, it won't matter often. It simply means we can't use it for GOFAST.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 06:27:33 pm by TricMagic »
Logged

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #976 on: September 10, 2019, 06:22:58 pm »

Thanks to Tric for bringing up that we don't really NEED to exploit that lunar resource this instant. Here's the summary of what goes cheap with what:

Quote
MAGMATITE:
TALON: 2
WARTHOG HEAVY: 1 [also 1 Oil]
Skyranger: 1 (with revision AND 1 Ore)
GATE: 2 (needs to be de-[Complex]'d before reaching Cheap)

OIL:
WARTHOG: 1
Drop Bear: 1
Starknight: 1
Blizzard: 1 (with one Ore)
Cataphract: 1 (with one Ore)

ORE:
Grizzly: 2
Starknight: 1
Blizzard: 1 (with one Oil)
Cataphract: 1 (with one Oil)

So obviously if we win through the Desert this turn we'll need to extract one more Ore from the Moon next turn to make Grizzlies Cheap...but this turn we don't need to be worried about it, so we could conceivably just revise a cooling system into Bear Armor and design something else, like "let's not get bombed from space while in the vast open expanses of the desert" sorts of things.

Regardless, more Magmatite helps nothing, one more Oil gets us the STC to transport it (not super important) as well as cheapening Drop Bears (ahahahaha I had forgotten about those things) and the basic WARTHOG. Worth doing, probably not super possible to acquire a new Oil through a revision. One more Ore, again, gets the STC necessary to transport it...and nothing else, not until next turn IF we win the Desert...or acquire another Ore or an Oil through other means.



Annnnyway, food for thought.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

dgr11897

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #977 on: September 10, 2019, 06:51:16 pm »


Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (1) DGR

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) Madman
N-ICE: ()

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: ()
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()
Logged
Quote from: evicted Saint on discord
Weaponizing Jesus isn't something you do turn 4
Quote from: Alice on a different discord, to iridium, kind of.
hold on, let me keep blowing kisses at him until he stops
My Power armor arms race

TricMagic

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #978 on: September 10, 2019, 06:57:46 pm »

Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) Madman
N-ICE: ()

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: ()
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()


This is another instance where I kinda wouldn't mind either of them. Likewise, the Bear never received a cooling system in the first place. A revision should be all that's needed,

Quote
ME-PA-59 'Bear Armour': Powered infantry armor w/ full body coverage, albeit with fairly frequent gaps in the joints. Armor plating is semi-manually removed from the outside through a series of switches to enter/exit/perform maintenance. Lasts 8 hr at consistent high-power use, charge is monitored by a dial in the helmet. Embarking/disembarking from the outside takes about 30 s, disembarking without assistance takes a few minutes. Stands at [~7 ft/~2m] tall, with small bulletproof glass visor for limited visibility. Pilots boast slightly increased speed and slightly decreased agility over regular unarmored individuals while in the Armour and hold twice the strength of average soldiers. Contains advanced shock/recoil-dampening capabilities in gauntlets. Fit with Magmagel, and equipped with a charging port to charge in 1 min.
Equipped with COMBAT plating.
[Cheap] 4 Ore, 2 Oil, 1 Magmatite

Quote
Revision: Bear Armour Mark-2/Armour Type Upgrade
Bear Armour has long been a staple, though we've seen it fail sometimes. Last time in the desert, a flaw became truly apparent in the lack of a cooling system. Aratam recently took advantage of this. Likewise, it's first deployment saw it lose to the weapon some in Aratam used. Back then, we devised Combat Plating to solve that. However, we never dealt with the heat it produced on the infantry level.

Likewise, the new Firestorm is very expensive, but uses ICE to survive exit and reentry. And well, we did used to have those shields as well, but they've fallen out of favor it seems.

The solutions are a bit simple, but they should prove effective. First, heat reduction. This is done with ICE coolant pipes in the armor. The ICE is stored elsewhere when not in use, but can be turned on to not only cool the user and inside of the suit, but actively cool the Combat Plating as well. Second, we are adding another piece of armor, an ablative ceramic to knock bullets and plasma off course, preventing the joints(and pipes) from being targeted so easily. These mostly hang attached to the BEAR Armour, and can be replaced easily. We've called DUC to make them, so they won't break from bullets, even if they are full of holes. This ceramic is also conformed to the Bear Armour in key places, the front and back to reduce the heat from plasma strikes, and arms and legs.
Third, and last, is the production of a shield, so like the ones used in the past. The old shield, which was just a chunk of metal, has been reinforced with a hard ceramic ablative layer. This layer will prevent plasma from dealing damage as it splashes off. It may leave a dent, but the shield won't break quickly. As they really can't keep firing, these will do to protect us. The bottom of the shield has been sharpened to allow it to be thrust into the ground to act as a sort of cover. Many Bears make good defensive positions.

If we have time, we'll also add the new ablative ceramics to the Grizzleys, Warthogs, and Railstations. Though they will likely see less coverage, given the focus of the Bear Armour.

Ice pipes for cooling the wearer and suit. Ceramics for thermal armor.  And ceramics cover for the shield, and cutting the bottom for planting it in the ground for cover.

Spoiler: Removed part (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:56:12 pm by TricMagic »
Logged

Powder Miner

  • Bay Watcher
  • this avatar is years irrelevant again oh god oh f-
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #979 on: September 10, 2019, 09:38:22 pm »

The SPACEMARINE is I suspect potentially risky in terms of difficulty and cost, but it helps deal with the Albatross, which I believe is one of THE biggest problems that Mereth would face in both the Desert and Plains, and it cools our infantry, which helps both in the desert and in plains with dry heat. I suspect this helps deal with both of the major, guaranteed problems Mereth faces in the Desert battle, and helps quite a bit in the Plains too.
Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) Madman
N-ICE: ()

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: (1) Powder Miner
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()
Logged

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #980 on: September 10, 2019, 10:01:28 pm »

Quote
ICE Creatively Re-Engineered for Applied Magmagel
ICE currently absorbs all heat it is exposed too. This is wasteful, as the vast heat differential between ICE and whatever heat source it is cooling goes entirely unexploited. It also poses great demands on our ICE, as it has to absorb all heat, instead of only waste heat. By mixing a modified, denser version of our traditional ICE solution with a modified magmagel derivative, we can utilize this previously unexploited energy source, while also decreasing our cooling needs.

It works by combining ICE and Magmagel with a patented, secret catalyst. This catalyst takes depleted Magmagel molecules, and folds them around ICE or Stabil-ICE molecules. As heat is added to the system, the ICE molecules destabilize to absorb it and in doing so exert pressure upon the Magmagel, causing it to re-energize.

This process is enormously efficient (someone may have forgotten to turn of the optimization program when they went home for the weekend), such that the process closely approaches the maximum thermodynamic efficiency. Given the extreme cold generated by ICE (which can drop down to the low Kelvins on a molecular scale) the vast majority of the produced heat is successfully turned into electricity. This both provides a viable source of power, and an enduring cooling system.

After releasing the DUC on the problem of creating such an ICE compound, the rest of the engineering department embarked on the project to apply it to everything that uses ICE for cooling or anything else, allowing those systems to be partially powered by ICECREAM, as well as putting an ICECREAM-based cooling system into Bear Armors and Grizzlies, for dealing with our enemy's love of dry heat weather in the Plains and also the Desert's pesky insistence on being ridiculously warm in the sun.

Lightly altered M-ICE proposal with the added benefits of finally deploying ICECREAM to the battlefield and also solving our cooling problems in one go.


Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: ()
N-ICE: ()
ICECREAM: ()

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: (1) Powder Miner
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()

I just don't have enough of an opinion on what to do right now.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 04:22:09 pm by Madman198237 »
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #981 on: September 11, 2019, 11:32:45 am »

Quote
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) 10ebbor10
N-ICE: ()
ICECREAM: (1)10ebbor10

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: (1) Powder Miner
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()

Logged

NUKE9.13

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #982 on: September 11, 2019, 11:35:11 am »

Going with ICECREAM. It would be good to update our Bear Armour, but updating ICE improves almost all our equipment. ICECREAM over M-ICE since having to spend a revision to include it in all our tech would be bad action economy, and I don't think the basic idea will be that difficult.

Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) 10ebbor10
N-ICE: ()
ICECREAM: (2) 10ebbor10, NUKE9.13

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: (1) Powder Miner
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()
Logged
Long Live United Forenia!

TricMagic

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #983 on: September 11, 2019, 12:13:11 pm »

Keep in mind ICECREAM will also likely require magmatite, so anything that uses it will have it's cost increased. Our Firestorm variant using it would therefore be NE. (5 resources +1 from ICECREAM=NE)

It also doesn't really improve our ability in the Orbital Theater. Or improve our Region Rating on the moon.  Nor is CW just going to make it easy to get more resources, and ore isn't super needed in comparison to 1 more oil. Likewise, Magmatite would likely be 2 more to be of best use. We only have one open region right now.


Oh! Not to mention the Bear Armour does not have a cooling system, nor does it use ICE. So it does not solve the fact our troopers will still have to deal with the heat. The Bear Armour never received a cooling system. And their new plasma weapons still punch through us.
Logged

Powder Miner

  • Bay Watcher
  • this avatar is years irrelevant again oh god oh f-
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #984 on: September 11, 2019, 02:44:49 pm »

The Firestorm, seeing as its cooling capacities generally seem to be sufficient already, is probably the design the least fucked over by the desert — it isn’t exactly going to be sticking around to get fried. That said, ICECREAM Firestorms would drop back down to expensive with a single moon resource.

However, if we go ICECREAM, the revision will NEED to go to cooling the Bears, and ideally improving them a bit as well.
Logged

andrea

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #985 on: September 11, 2019, 03:02:18 pm »

Probably not on this turn, but I wanted to put this out.


Reality Caster
GATE as it currently is is an extraordinary device, able to send matter into the N-dimension. However, some of the events during testing and the mountain incident suggest that there is potential for a deeper mngling of the 2 realms. With this in mind since traversing N-space is extremely hard and dangerous, our not yet insane scientists started working on a radical project: instead of sending matter through GATE, why don't we try to send realspace (R-space)? So was born the Reality Caster project.

The concept is simple: take some R-space with physics suitable for organic life, and shove it in N-space to form a safe corridor to traverse. The first problem we ran into is that, of course, space isn't an actual object that we can push. However while real space has hard rules, N-space is more  amenable to bending to our wills. Reshaping it is already an acquired ability, but this time the goal is a bit more ambitious: pushing it away to create a bubble of "true" vacuum, which would attract the R-space on our side of the gate to fill the void generated; The "momentum" from this shift then would cause the bubble to be propelled forward to form an R-corridor, with some help from the GATE itself. While it could be considered unwise to propel a large enough portion of space into another realm, the main effect is actually a substantial stretching, allowing a little space to go very far. A side effect of this sudden stretching and the displacing of N-space is that some "N-void" space bubbles reach to our side of the portal, creating a brief but deadly foam that extends a few meters in front of the portal. This is not a great downside however, as the foam is very short lived and patriotic blue; anything that stands in its path would however be toast so it is better to keep the area clean.

But what then is the use of this device? It is important to understand that R-space has a strong affinity to our reality and seeks to return to it. The R-space corridor therefore, when it is no longer supported by the GATE, tunnels back in the material realm, establishing a brief connection. This by itself is relatively short range and not sustainable for more than a few tens of seconds, but it still allows a possibly significant degree of flexibility (or sending bombs inside their ship). However, more interesting is what happens if 2 GATEs create a corridor toward each other. If those meet, a semi-stable link can be established, at significantly longer range and longer time, perhaps more than half an hour. The range is thought to only be limited by the power available to the GATE devices.

The travel through the bridge is extremely uneventful. In fact, in the corridor there is barely any space at all due to the extreme stretching and the apparent effect is that of a door that opens on the destination.

TricMagic

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #986 on: September 11, 2019, 03:12:19 pm »

I'll note that of the three options, I would go with the SPACEMARINE for giving us protection from those new weapons of theirs.

I'd rather have 1 of the space designs though. The reason for firestorms only having 1 safe shot i because they spend so much getting up there safely. Anything that allows refueling ICE would help, since they can stop there, fill up their tanks, and be able to likely use up to 3 safely(if not more). After which, they can return to an Aurora/The Ares, and refill.

This would also boost combat time somewhat, since they don't need to go back down, they can move on to another target and continue their combat afterward. Overall, having a station that can help out space assets is a pretty big deal.



Also, this is me. I don't really want the whole ice upgrades. Except for the N-ICE, but it seems that isn't an option.


Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) 10ebbor10
N-ICE: ()
ICECREAM: (2) 10ebbor10, NUKE9.13

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: (2) Powder Miner, TricMagic
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()

I'd rather have the SPACEMARINE than the ICECREAM. And rather have Space than SPACEMARINE.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 04:21:10 pm by TricMagic »
Logged

Jilladilla

  • Bay Watcher
  • Most Sleep Deprived
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #987 on: September 11, 2019, 04:24:11 pm »

Should probably vote, as this vote is actually contested.

Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) 10ebbor10
N-ICE: ()
ICECREAM: (2) 10ebbor10, NUKE9.13

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: (3) Powder Miner, TricMagic, Jilladilla
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()
Logged

Glory to United Forenia!

If you see a 'Nemonole' on the internet elsewhere, it's probably me

Powder Miner

  • Bay Watcher
  • this avatar is years irrelevant again oh god oh f-
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #988 on: September 11, 2019, 04:26:00 pm »

This is kind of a tentative vote since I'm still split between this and the SPACEMARINE, but... I think this will have lots of benefits too. We will just need to upgrade the Bear with our revision.
Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) 10ebbor10
N-ICE: ()
ICECREAM: (3) 10ebbor10, NUKE9.13, Powder Miner

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 04:32:47 pm by Powder Miner »
Logged

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Spring 1965 - Design Phase)
« Reply #989 on: September 11, 2019, 07:31:09 pm »

Quote from: Votebox
Moon Operation Design
SO-CARP: ()

Space Design
MSS-LDS-Ares: (1) TricMagic
ME-SCS-65 AURORA: (2) DGR, TricMagic

ICE Designs
M-ICE: (1) 10ebbor10
N-ICE: ()
ICECREAM: (3) 10ebbor10, NUKE9.13, Powder Miner

Suit Upgrade Design
ME-PA-65 "Uber Bear": ()
ME-PA-65 SPACEMARINE: (3) TricMagic, Jilladilla, Madman
ME-CSE-65 SHOOTTHEM: ()

Talon Design
ME-GWS-65 'TALON 2': ()

I know, I know, tying things AND being indecisive. Well, sorry. I want to upgrade our infantry, it's far past time that they get something that might help them in standing up to Aratam's psychos. I mean psychics. I mean both. They do technically still have those Fury guys, after all.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.
Pages: 1 ... 64 65 [66] 67 68 ... 74