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[NUKE9.13]

The thing about PURE IRON is that it tries to remove COMBAT plating, which is a really cool gimmick that is very useful. I'd rather not just go the route of replacing it with generic wonder material #240485 "super strong version of iron". The acronym is appropriately funny (and painful to read), the joke is pretty good, but still, it does replace a cool gimmick with a less cool one, even if I do appreciate that Hellborers may actually have some use. Maybe instead make it so that the joke is that it IS used in a COMBAT plating alloy/combination/whatever we call the thing that COMBAT plating does---making it more effective in exchange for costing Hellborer corpses instead of regular Ore.

...aw, dangit, that's a fair point. And unfortunately, just adding Fe-60 to COMBAT plating would be pointless, since that wouldn't reduce the cost.

Also, yes, we'd like to get Grizzlies to Expensive, but that's not the only way we have of turning this war in our favor. Improving all our units (hello, Brainwave) to be simply better, making some sort of ultra-lightweight bomber to follow the Blizzards into combat zones and just drop dozens of guided missiles, or making weapons for Grizzlies and Bear Troopers to be better at AT warfare, etc, all of them would likely help us out.

I mean, yes, there are obviously other ways of improving our military, I just think that cheapening Grizzlies is the most effective option, by a significant margin.

Focusing the mountains this turn and winning them would ALSO cheapen Grizzlies if we can hold them.

We lost the mountains; it'd take two turns of victory there to get the extra ore.

[piratejoe]

I'll admit, I do like the idea of ADMIN, though why not direct it at purely civilian work in the factories and the like? We might be able to get more stuff to work with all our designs if we go make it cause mining, production, and transportation go as efficiently as possible. Then again I might just be far to optimistic about this...

[Madman198237]

ME-RID-61 Servitor with Environment Resistant Features 'SERF'
Based on the Bear Armor and our original prototype remote-control-hand thing back when we invented Electrogel, the new remote industrial drone 'SERF' is basically a humanish-sized drone, controlled like a Grizzly suit via a remote cable connection. It is basically a remote-controlled Bear Armor with much-improved dexterity so the operator has similar fine motor skills to their normal body. The feedback portions of CAT have been slightly improved via a slightly better mixture of Electrogel that has higher bandwidth and slightly higher precision of transmission to accompany the newfound fine motor skills. The operator can thus sit comfortably in his office, wired to his drone, which is capable of lifting much more weight than he is, surviving much higher temperatures than he is, doesn't need transportation from the hellish depths of MAGMA back to the livable areas, and doesn't mind 24-hour shifts (via rotating pilot shifts). Vision and hearing are provided, for now, by simple microphones and cameras on the drone's end, and speakers and a TV monitor on the operator's end.

The suit improves industrial capability as mentioned above. Bulk-reducing steps in MAGMA industry can be moved downwards, hazardous working environments no longer require bureaucratic approval or safety measures, industrial accidents don't require a shutdown and investigation (and funeral), but require instead a replacement robot and a repair bill, on and on and on. Also, every worker is simply more capable (and can work from home, or nearly from home depending on how much cable can be run and from where). We hope to use the gained materials to cheapen COMBAT plating.

I don't like ADMIN mostly because Fallacy has gone on and on about it, but also because it is full of unreasonable expectations of the amount of effort there is to be saved here, there, or everywhere, as well as unreasonable expectations about how much it'll accomplish and what Chief can or will allow. He is, after all, trying to run a balanced game here, and letting us just blatantly drop the expenses of a bunch of things is...not super balanced.


For a revision, artillery dominance:

ME-GML-61 'Peregrine'
Using solid rocket boosters as new first stages, Shrikes are modified to be fired at long range from Sarukh launcher trucks. Then, Birdbrain pods are placed on some Grizzlies, and Blizzard pods are modified, to direct the missiles as they enter the operations zone. Pinpoint artillery support for ground forces, and we can always have Blizzard missile support, even when all the Blizzards are out of missiles.

As you may notice, I need names for both of these. Thanks to NUKE for a not-crappy name for the industrial drone. I considered Fallacy's suggestion of using Penguins as Shrike launchers, but the whole Penguin weighs only 100kg---merely five Shrikes. I don't think that that's going to make an effective-enough weapon system, and SRBs on Shrikes is easier and simpler, and allows you to launch just one Shrike if that's all you want or need.

[andrea]

Putting out some grizzly proposals, for the sake of it.


Grizzly v3, normal proposal

Grizzly v3 is the latest and more capable version of the grizzly combat suit.
First change is in the cockpit. Since now the pilot is hooked directly to the machine, the cavernous space is removed, replaced by a pod in which the pilot plugs in in fetal position, vastly reducing size requirements and providing a smaller target to enemy weapons.

A shoulder mounted CLAW pod analogous to the one mounted on the blizzard is added, to act as autonomous anti infantry and anti tank weapon. While human soldiers have trouble focusing fire on a single vital spot for long enough, holding aim should be trivial for birdbrain.
The birdbrain pod is also tasked with assisting aim of the other weapons: the arm mounted ones and the back mounted mortar. Those modes however have to be activated by the pilot, since they have to move limbs to work and full autonomy would be disorienting and impair movement. ( to clarify,  the soldiers would decide "mortar targeting activate" and then the birdbrain would move the grizzly to aim).
To support the birdbrain, the grizzly is also equipped with a large host of sensors: 360° cameras in both visible and infrared, and radar, all available also to the soldier on his screen. No mobile head is included: rather, only the displayed visual changes.

Even with the birdpod added, the drastic shrinkage of pilot space and removal of head is enough for significant size savings. Limbs and structure are made sleeker and effort is made to improve mobility. In the end, we expect to get a suit a bit more than 3 meters tall and a bit less wide than the old grizzly as well.

In short, grizzly will be smaller ( with the goal of reducing ore cost), have vastly increased sensors, more agility (being lighter), extra weapons and computer targeting for its arsenal.
A version without the extra CLAW pod is also slated for production to boost our numbers.


Grizzly v3, pocket edition

Grizzly v3 is the latest and more capable version of the grizzly combat suit.
First change is in the cockpit. We realized that, since control is done entirely by electrical input, the pilot doesn't actually have to be inside the suit. Therefore, the pilot space is replaced with a radio array set to receive commands, while the pilot itself is somewhere safe.

A shoulder mounted CLAW pod analogous to the one mounted on the blizzard is added, to act as autonomous anti infantry and anti tank weapon. While human soldiers have trouble focusing fire on a single vital spot for long enough, holding aim should be trivial for birdbrain.
The birdbrain pod is also tasked with assisting aim of the other weapons: the arm mounted ones and the back mounted mortar. Those modes however have to be activated by the pilot, since they have to move limbs to work and full autonomy would be disorienting and impair movement. ( to clarify,  the soldiers would decide "mortar targeting activate" and then the birdbrain would move the grizzly to aim).
To support the birdbrain, the grizzly is also equipped with a large host of sensors: 360° cameras in both visible and infrared, and radar, all available also to the soldier on his screen. No mobile head is included: rather, only the displayed visual changes.

A radio array and a birdbrain are much, much smaller than a pilot, therefore the grizzly is extremely more compact, now formed by a pod, surrounded by structure and magmagel, linked to limbs. Overall, it would be just a bit more than 2 meters tall, and less wide than its predecessor. Work is also done on limbs to make them sleeker and more agile, although not at the cost of sacrificing power.

With so much mass being cut, we also set out to adapt drop bear technology, providing a  detatchable jetpack for the grizzly suit, allowing it to do short hops.

In short, grizzly will be much smaller ( with the goal of reducing ore cost), have vastly increased sensors, more agility, extra weapons, computer targetinlg for its arsenal, will be able to jump and won't endanger the pilot.
in order to field a larger number of grizzlys

[10ebbor10]

UT-63 Burrowing Owl : The UT-63 Burrowing Owl is a mass produced, significantly downsized and autonomous version of the UT-60 excavator. Barely larger than a person, it is not intended to create transport routes, except in the most direst of emergencies. Instead, the modified birdbrain computer within it's chassis recieves its instructions directly from the Oracle-A.

Though originally intended for recon, prospecting and the construction of conduit and ventilation lines in MAGMA, the Oracle has revealed a much greater potential. Strategic battlefield manipulation. A few holes drilled into a local aquifer, and suddenly an enemy armored advance get bogged down in a march. A magmite explosive in the right place, and suddenly a tide of boiling mud splashes onto the battlefield. A little bit of drilling in just the right place, and an entire mountainside gives way.

[Madman198237]

I managed to stress my brain and came up with two pathetic names. Better suggestions (even acronyms) welcome. Might as well start voting, I think.

ME-RID-61 'Robot': (1) Madman

[NUKE9.13]

Possible name for the robots: Servitor with Environment Resistant Features (SERF).

ME-RID-61 'Robot': (2) Madman, NUKE9.13

[Atomic Chicken]

With regards to the 'Robot'/SERF design: why not cut out the need for an external controller altogether by placing a modified Birdbrain pod (and perhaps a way to communicate with nearby ORACLE nodes) inside each unit and turning them into autonomous drones? We certainly have the AI capacity for this purpose.

[NUKE9.13]

The Birdbrain is a primitive target-acquisition computer that some people have repurposed to run their thermostats. It is by no means an advanced AI. And ORACLE presently lacks the capacity to run hundreds of robots. We probably could develop an AI capable of doing so- that's basically what ADMIN is. But I don't think we should do both at once- either we do workbots with fine motor control, or we develop AI capable of running factories.

I think both options are equally viable. The deciding factor to me is not "which is harder", but "which tech do we want to advance"- which is also close, in my mind, as better computing could have many applications... but I don't think we're close to actual autonomous combat units (maybe we could do aircraft, since they don't have so much to process, but autonomous infantry/mechs would require much more AI skill, and more importantly smaller computers), so I'd rather work on tech that would let us improve our existing assets- more agile Grizzlies, faster Bear Armour, and perhaps, if we develop higher bandwidth & more reliable communication tech, remotely-piloted craft.

[FallacyofUrist]

ME-RID-61 'Robot': (2) Madman, NUKE9.13
Artificial Designer of Merethian InterNals: (1) FallacyofUrist

I vote ADMIN because:
1) It's more likely to have wider benefits than SERF, while accomplishing the same thing it does.
2) It'll be much more efficient in factories and the like than SERF.
3) SERF is vulnerable to Hellborers, meaning it's less likely to get us what we want. ADMIN isn't.
4) I think we'd be better served skipping the step of human-controlled drones and making autonomous flying missile strike launchers.
5) We have more designs in computing(Birdbrain, MXETE, ORACLE-A) than designs in cybernetic control (CAT, possibly a Grizzly revision a while back?), meaning we have more experience in ADMIN's technology, meaning it's more likely to work.

Alternatively, we could just design a borehole like MAGMA in the Tundra for a free Ore. But that's been called boring.

[NUKE9.13]

Alternatively, we could just design a borehole like MAGMA in the Tundra for a free Ore. But that's been called boring.

I mean... it literally is boring.
...
I'll see myself out.

[Happerry]

ME-RID-61 'Robot': (3) Madman, NUKE9.13, Happerry
Artificial Designer of Merethian InterNals: (1) FallacyofUrist

[Madman198237]

ME-RID-61 'SERF': (3) Madman, NUKE9.13, Happerry
Artificial Designer of Merethian InterNals: (1) FallacyofUrist

[dgr11897]

ME-RID-61 'SERF': (4) Madman, NUKE9.13, Happerry, DGR
Artificial Designer of Merethian InterNals: (1) FallacyofUrist

[Atomic Chicken]

ME-RID-61 'SERF': (4) Madman, NUKE9.13, Happerry, DGR
Artificial Designer of Merethian InterNals: (2) FallacyofUrist, AC