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Author Topic: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Fall 1965 - Final Design Phase)  (Read 83377 times)

Maximum Spin

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Design Phase)
« Reply #150 on: December 29, 2017, 07:38:00 pm »

I think the V. U. F. E. is good, but needs more ICE. Please apply more ICE to the V. U. F. E. and then I will vote for it.
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Madman198237

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Design Phase)
« Reply #151 on: December 29, 2017, 09:06:12 pm »

VUFE also needs more rioting space.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1959 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #152 on: December 30, 2017, 09:24:45 pm »

Tentative vote for the Embassy for now, but well, it seems good. And I want to get things moving along once more.
Quote
Normal Design:
ME-LRMRA-60 "Blizzard" (4): NUKE9.13, FallacyofUrist, Madman, Jilladilla

Embassy Design:
Vast Underground Forenian Embassy (3): NUKE9.13, FallacyofUrist, Jilladilla
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Glory to United Forenia!

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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Design Phase)
« Reply #153 on: January 04, 2018, 12:36:46 pm »

ME-LRMRA-60 "Blizzard": The Blizzard is a Long-Range Multi-Role-Aircraft, designed with Forenian assistance to be the last word in aerial superiority.
Striking about the Blizzard is the unusual X-shaped wing profile. Conventional wisdom suggests that X-shaped wings don't work (well). Conventional wisdom is wrong; correctly designed, they provide increased lift and manoeuvrability due to some weird, recently discovered aerodynamic effects. Combined with two aT-J60g engines (the al-Tawrbinat company's latest creation, specifically designed to utilise GOFAST fuel to the fullest), the Blizzard is slightly faster than the Lightning Streak, more manoeuvrable, and- thanks to Forenian doctrines of double-redundancy (the plane can fly with two wings missing, and there are backups for every critical system)- sturdier.
Less immediately obvious, but no less important, are the large GOFAST fuel tanks, which give the Blizzard incredible flight times, letting them patrol far away from base for hours on end.
The Blizzard is armed with four Velociraptor autocannons (one on each wing). It has bomb mounts capable of holding one tonne of bombs (the Forenians seemed incredibly divided over the decision to add this feature). It also mounts 8 ICE rockets (modified Sarukh ones).
To preserve pilot sanity, a very rudimentary autopilot has been installed, capable of flying in a straight line and nothing more. Computer systems also provide aiming assistance. We shall endeavour to include rudimentary radar as well.
Not described: all the other basic aeroplane stuff. We're MAD engineers here, we can leave the boring details to subordinates.
The Blizzard will tear through Aratam's outdated Cannalan planes like paper, then continue to devastate targets both on land and at sea with barrages of bombs and rockets.
Despite its superiority to the Lightning Streak, the advances in technology since '42 mean that the Blizzard is not expected to cost any more than its predecessor; more efficient engines and better metallurgy reduce the cost even as superior range and construction increase it.
Design: ME-LRMA-60 "Blizzard"
Hard: (2+2)-1 = 3: Buggy Mess
The ME-LRMA-60 Blizzard was certainly a laundry list of new features and improvements. While it seemed simple at first, the difficulty of implementing the various features (and the fact that it takes a bit of extra effort to fully understand imported designs enough to work off of the first time) quickly added up.
Any casual observer can find that the Blizzard was based off of the Forenian Lightning Streak, but with some chief differences. Like the four wings arranged in an "X" pattern.

So we actually did manage to use four wings. Yes, this does perplex literally everyone who's seen it. They use what we, at heavy pushing from Forenia, deem the Tereshkova Effect. With some special modifications to the exact structure of the wings and aerodynamics that the engineers manage to make sound extremely complicated, we can squeeze some extra aerodynamic efficiency out of our wings compared to the conventional two used in most planes. Nothing particularly groundbreaking, but it does look cool and the Blizzard can fly as long as it has at least one wing on each side.
While we haven't released anything other than the name of the Tereshkova Effect and the gist of what we use it for, we have received several very angry calls from Cannala about our "magic effect."

Now onto the bulk of what we did do: Two aT-J60g GOFAST jet engines, four Velociraptors, and 4 (not 8) unguided ICE rockets best used on ground targets. It holds 1 ton of bombs, though we just barely managed to get that past Forenian resistance.


However, weight and expense are both severe issues - namely (but not entirely) in the new aT-J60g engines. GOFAST isn't immediately usable in jet engines; we have to make some modifications and tweaks to the formula so it, say, doesn't blow up whatever it's put into. This is expected and normally wouldn't be an issue. But combined with the aging and pioneering nature of the Forenian aT-J20 engines, we had some difficulties.
The two aT-J60g engines work, but at severe cost. They're practically aT-J20s jury-rigged to work with the rest of the design as well as GOFAST. The extra components make them significantly heavier and counteract any bonuses in expense we may have gained from general technological advancements since the Forenian-Cannalan war. Their consumption of GOFAST fuel is higher than expected, requiring even larger fuel tanks. Yet despite their, well, crappy nature, they're required for function; the Tereshkova effect requires some minor yet very fundamental changes in the engines in order to be properly exploited.


The Blizzard is surprisingly sluggish for a jet, and is significantly slower than the Lightning Streak. This can be attributed to the two heavier aT-J60g engines, the larger fuel tanks, and more. But mostly the new engines. Its fuel tanks allow for a very respectable range predicted to be useful in the fighting, though the range isn't quite as great as we hoped. In dogfighting, it's expected to perform simply worse than the Lightning Streak, though it does have some predicted use in light bombing and close air support roles.
On the bright side, the loaning of one of our two prototype Blizzards to certain civilians for propaganda purposes has produced a burgeoning science fiction film industry in Mereth thanks to their very unique appearance.

It is expected to cost 6 Ore and 5 Oil due to the two more complicated jet engines and to the use of GOFAST, making it a National Effort for us to construct at the moment. We will only be able to field a grand total of one Blizzard in each theatre.
Based on our experience with the design, we know we can lower the Ore cost effectively by working on a less "put together in 2 days" version of the new engines, and decrease the oil cost by opting for notably smaller fuel tanks. Any other improvements to cost, if possible, are significantly less obvious.



Vast Underground Forenian Embassy: Tastefully decorated with marble statues, rich wooden panelling, and thick carpets, the Forenian Embassy is a luxurious home for our ally's ambassadors. It is also located 200ft below the surface, for security purposes. In order to quickly excavate the vast underground facility, we have upgraded the Burrower into the ME-UT-60 "Excavator", a larger vehicle capable of digging substantially deeper, equipped with an upgraded Earth-Ear system with increased range and accuracy- to facilitate more precise digging, because we wouldn't want our esteemed friends to reside in a wonky embassy.
Someone suggested installing a Velociraptor on the Excavator, in case Aratam insurgents attack the building site... but that would be a silly waste of our ally's money.
Once the project is completed, we will try to find some use for the remaining construction equipment- to show our allies that we are conscientious with our resources, and don't just throw things away once we're done with them. Perhaps the mining industry would appreciate the ability to dig deeper and faster as well? And, I mean, I suppose we could deploy Excavators in combat, now that you mention it.
Embassy Design: Vast Underground Forenian Embassy
Normal: (5) = 5: Average
The arriving diplomatic staff from Forenia aren't extremely happy with their embassy. Sure, it's nice and all, but where's the pizazz? They heard that Aratam build a brewery for Cannala!
They're not mad. Just a bit disappointed.  This mood seems like it may last a while.

But the completely coincidental ME-UT-60 "Excavator" is a nice consolation prize for us. We spent quite a bit of time working on the Earth-Ear system in order to ensure the best possible embassy for the ingrate diplomats. It just so happens that Earth-Ear may now be able to warn of Aratamiam presence.
Through just general precision improvements and more individual sensors, we can get a better resolution, though still not enough to be able to tell the difference between "fairly large boulder" and "group of Aratamiam APCs". By having it also be able to detect subtle movements between scans (for cave-ins and no military purpose naturally of course how dare you accuse us of using it for another purpose) and tweaking the display cube, we can have sectors where movement's detected flash red. So if a reasonably large group of vehicles or people are moving across the surface, the Earth Ear will indicate it. It can't detect smaller groups, it can't differentiate between friendly/hostile/neutral forces, and it can't give any more information other than "there's some troop movement here", but it's great for increasing the awareness of military Excavators preventing cave-ins and faulty burrowing for the embassy.

The Excavator is also now given some reinforcement for pressure and a slightly more powerful drill, allowing it to reach Moderate depths, though we predict going further down would require some significant investment. The Earth Ear is somewhat less effective detecting far-away surface movement when deeper underground, not that we would care about that for the perfectly civilian embassy.

Aid and funding from Forenia ensured that the embassy project went smoothly and left no chance for failure.


Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)

The Revision Phase of 1960 has begun.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:42:57 am by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #154 on: January 04, 2018, 01:11:18 pm »

Message to Forenia:

"Think about how secure it is! Sure, Cannala may have a brewery, but no mere brewery could survive the apocalypse! Your embassy is designed to survive everything up to and including a nuclear blast!"
~~~
The obvious revision is improved engines.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #155 on: January 04, 2018, 01:35:54 pm »

Dang. I mean, yeah, surprisingly functional for a Buggy Mess... but on the other hand, it's worse than a 20 year old plane (some bombs and rockets do not make up for the significantly reduced speed, in my book).
So, we need to lower the cost (by 2) and increase the speed, if we want to make it something remotely deployable. But even then, it will be uninspiring.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #156 on: January 04, 2018, 01:42:33 pm »

Well, the interesting thing is that gofast fuel allows for tremendous performance increases, which we're currently not using because we're using the wrong sort of engine.

Gofast fuel does not require an oxidizer. That renders half of the engine completely redundant. A ground up redesign should be able to gain tremendous improvements.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #157 on: January 04, 2018, 02:04:30 pm »

Here are 2 ideas.

The sensible one

Me-80t

It is clear from the basic design of the aT-J60g engine that the al-Tawrbinat compagny simply did not believe in various of GoFast's more spectacular properties. The result is an engine optimized for "realistic" values, which means it's crap.

The Me-80t is an indigineous reimagining of what the aT-J60g should have been. Smaller, more fuel efficient, and lighter, it should prove a tremendous improvement on our current capabilities. The primary reason for this improvement is it's full bypass architecture. In any other engine, the concept of not sending any air into the combustion chamber would be nonsense, but GoFast does not require oxygen. This complete bypass not only allows us to remove the troublesome and expensive high pressure compressor and turbines, but also improves a tremendous fuel efficiency boost on it's own, greatly increasing thrust.


The silly one

Freezing Stovepipe

The freezing stovepipe is a unique hybrid of a ramjet and rocket engine. Utilizing not only GoFast, but also ICE, it attains fuel efficiency so great it's consider a violation of the laws of physics.

Nonetheless, the principle is very simple. Air enters the a high speed, slamming into the spike inlet. A very precise dripple feed of ICE ensures that the air temperature remains near freezing, despite the tremendous compressive heating. This high density air then flows through to the combustion chamber, where it is heated by a Gofast flame. Heat results in expansion, providing thrust. Unlike conventional ramjets, the fact that Gofast can burn independent of airflow ensures that the engine doesn't have a minimum operating speed.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 03:40:18 am by 10ebbor10 »
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andrea

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #158 on: January 04, 2018, 04:26:14 pm »

It is not so silly, the second one. Certainly less silly than an x-wing. It is not so different in concept from the SABRE engine, with the only break being our GoFast not needing oxidizer. And, well, our fuel and our cooler are different fluids rather than both being the same hydrogen, but that should not be a problem.
A cold intake should help a lot.

I shall vote for it.

Quote from: make planes fast again
Me-80t
Freezing Stovepipe (1) : Andrea

NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #159 on: January 04, 2018, 04:42:47 pm »

Yeah, alright. Go big or go home.

Quote from: make planes fast again
Me-80t
Freezing Stovepipe (2) : Andrea, NUKE9.13
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #160 on: January 04, 2018, 06:53:53 pm »

Quote from: make planes fast again
Me-80t
Freezing Stovepipe (3) : Andrea, NUKE9.13, Maximum Spin
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Madman198237

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #161 on: January 04, 2018, 10:53:36 pm »

Quote from: make planes fast again
Me-80t
Freezing Stovepipe (4) : Andrea, NUKE9.13, Maximum Spin, Madman

Freezing Stovepipe is mad only in the sense of being somewhat crazy and/or weird. It's basically a ducted rocket with a front-mounted intake and liquid fuel, which means it shouldn't be very hard to do, and should be very effective (Using ducts on a rocket improves specific impulse, though I do not remember how much, and this is soft sci-fi anyway, so...)
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #162 on: January 05, 2018, 03:11:40 am »

Oh, you should add the following line to the bottom of both revisions:
"Whilst we're at it, we've also made a version of the Blizzard with a reduced fuel capacity (whilst retaining the blueprints for the longer-ranged version). Combined with the new engine, this should reduce the cost to VE."
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10ebbor10

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #163 on: January 05, 2018, 03:29:15 am »

Freezing Stovepipe is mad only in the sense of being somewhat crazy and/or weird. It's basically a ducted rocket with a front-mounted intake and liquid fuel, which means it shouldn't be very hard to do, and should be very effective (Using ducts on a rocket improves specific impulse, though I do not remember how much, and this is soft sci-fi anyway, so...)

The original idea was a lot madder. The original plan was to use ICE to cool to way beneath freezing, causing it to shrink or even liquify, thus sucking air in and providing thrust. So, the engine would have thrust from both ICE and Gofast. I removed that because I remembered that clouds exists, and ice in the engine is a bad idea.

The new version only uses ICE for cooling, so it shouldn't freeze up.

Oh, you should add the following line to the bottom of both revisions:
"Whilst we're at it, we've also made a version of the Blizzard with a reduced fuel capacity (whilst retaining the blueprints for the longer-ranged version). Combined with the new engine, this should reduce the cost to VE."

Isn't that both defeating the point of the design and making 2 different revisions at once?
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andrea

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1960 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #164 on: January 05, 2018, 03:44:03 am »

Actually, going below water freezing is not necessarily a show stopper.
SABRE for example plans to cool air down to -150 °C. This also allows lighter alloys to be used in the compressor, since they don't have to sustain high temperatures. More a concern for high supersonic/hypersonic and high altitude, but might be worth pointing it out. The ice removal technique is an industrial secret, but it is a problem that they solved.
Anyway, I am not sure how low our ICE can get.
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