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[Strongpoint]

(1+1)... *facepalms*


I believe that we still need airforce. Period.

QS-03-Loki(b)
Loki(b) is an upgrade of Loki. It improves its performance in atmosphere by adding foldable wings. It adds an automated ventral turret with 50mm Mjolnir (like on Hrungnir), two 30mm Hayks (like on Doves) as secondary armament and internal munition bay that can host bombs or potential rockets\torpedoes\missiles. This new version can operate without ITC as long as it is staying close to a planet with friendly ground units. ( maybe... In this case part of support comes from army reducing SPP maintenance cost in exchange for GPP cost.)

It adds a tiny bit of punch in space (and good tools for dogfighting should they make their own small craft) and makes it actually good for supporting ground forces and destroying nukes.

[Strongpoint]

Reasons why I think that revision above is good.

1) I want to have something to shoot down enemy nukes should they go for the space version. It won't be funny if we'll get better anti-laser armor only to see them going nukes. Ventral turret ar here for this reason

2) I want something to handle their own small crafts if this is what they chose to boost their navy. 150mm coilguns don't look good against nimble fighters especially with Athena that gives boost to evasion. If they designed their own Loki-Like with lasers and\or nukes we'll be screwed

3) I want to leave something over D should we win the space battle to not repeat disaster of this turn

4) I want something to destroy their ground nukes. I am very skeptical about huge effectiveness of stealth tanks and they may deliver another toy(s) to finish the job

5) It gives us useful experience for future small crafts

[SamSpeeds]

Yeah, I agree with SP. We need atmospheric air superiority! Though I would specify how the bombs work and how they're aimed.

QS-03-Loki(b) (2) Strongpoint, SamSpeeds

Uhhh that was my first votebox from scratch EVER did I do it right?

Edit: Can we mount mirage plating on ITCs? Not suggesting we do just yet, but did the design make it possible?

[Strongpoint]

Though I would specify how the bombs work and how they're aimed.

I considered adding guidance system and even actual guided missiles but I think an automated turret and wings is already a lot for a revision so I am happy with old fashioned carpet bombing with assistance of whatever systems Loki already have. This is mostly a future thing for missiles we may develop later. Like going for AA system that fires missiles that can also go in Loki or designing missile craft with missiles that can be used by Loki.

[Jilladilla]

Reasons why I think that revision above is good.

1) I want to have something to shoot down enemy nukes should they go for the space version. It won't be funny if we'll get better anti-laser armor only to see them going nukes. Ventral turret ar here for this reason

2) I want something to handle their own small crafts if this is what they chose to boost their navy. 150mm coilguns don't look good against nimble fighters especially with Athena that gives boost to evasion. If they designed their own Loki-Like with lasers and\or nukes we'll be screwed

3) I want to leave something over D should we win the space battle to not repeat disaster of this turn

4) I want something to destroy their ground nukes. I am very skeptical about huge effectiveness of stealth tanks and they may deliver another toy(s) to finish the job

5) It gives us useful experience for future small crafts

How is this going to shoot down nukes? How is this going to survive if the nukes lock onto it? And we do have the anti-laser metamaterials now, so we can armor the Loki's at no cost; if they ditch lasers, we already have anti-optics and somewhat anti-radar capabilities with it.

As for the Stealth Tanks, you were skeptical about the tanks in the first place, claiming that their lasers would tear them apart in spite of the countermeasures. The truth of the matter is, we can't be sure until we test them out. Also, if they bring an anti-stealth thing this turn, I will be very suspicious of foul play...

That said, you do have a point about small craft experience. But I don't think we can make the GPP/SPP cost variable. If it's a case of 'Yup, it can hurl itself into space. Can't do too much there, but it can' then yes, GPP. But a multi-role is going to cost SPP...

Anyway, onto my suggestion:

QS-OAS-04 'Muninn'
Named after Odin's raven of Memory, the Muninn Ordinance Avoidance System is a sub-system of the Huginn Ballistics Guidance System; but instead of aiming our weaponry, the Muninn is tasked with avoiding the enemies weaponry via plotting evasive course plotting, knowledge of the timing of the enemy's weapons and firing of engines timed to throw their aim off, and just generally learning from the enemy's aiming tendencies to avoid any new tricks up their sleeve.
Initially, our Muninn's will be taught in simulated combat, against simulacrums of what our best guess of the enemies ships are. Of course, the Muninn's in charge of our ships in the sims will be used for our systems.


For countering their nuke missiles, next turn do something like this as a potential design:
Make a car sized thing; it can deploy a tethered RADAR balloon, it has a fast turret with a tiny Mjolnir, the Mjolnir is guided by a Huginn. This car is meant to detect and destroy incoming missiles.

[Strongpoint]

How is this going to shoot down nukes?

Their nukes look like chemical propelled and those are slow. I think it is possible to aim and shoot them down.

QS-OAS-04 'Muninn'

This is an attempt to copy their thing. I am not sure that I like this kind of reactive strategy. Furthermore it is one dimensional thing. We are not in position to improve only navy if we want to try to hold D. I am perfectly fine with losing battle over D, if the loss won't be severe enough to stop us fro bringing reinforcements. I think it is pointless to win battle over D if we'll lose the planet anyway. Why do you want stronger navy right now? What do you want to accomplish?

Make a car sized thing; it can deploy a tethered RADAR balloon, it has a fast turret with a tiny Mjolnir, the Mjolnir is guided by a Huginn. This car is meant to detect and destroy incoming missiles.

May be overly specialized for one task.

[Jilladilla]

Their nukes look like chemical propelled and those are slow. I think it is possible to aim and shoot them down.

Missiles tend to have a much better mass to engine ratio than most aircraft, and I'd think not even our Apollo would be able to overcome that; that is, if they lock on to an atmospheric Loki, I don't think outrunning it would be a valid action. Better to make point defense, I would think. That, and the Loki's Huginn isn't as effective due to a lack of RADAR.

This is an attempt to copy their thing. I am not sure that I like this kind of reactive strategy. Furthermore it is one dimensional thing. We are not in position to improve only navy if we want to try to hold D. I am perfectly fine with losing battle over D, if the loss won't be severe enough to stop us fro bringing reinforcements. I think it is pointless to win battle over D if we'll lose the planet anyway. Why do you want stronger navy right now? What do you want to accomplish?

Firstly, this isn't copying their thing, we had Muninn in the works ever since we made Huginn.
Secondly, my purpose? To take and hold orbit. Heck, the better option for ground support, would be to revise iron-plated tungsten slugs for our Mjolnirs, to allow us to commence orbital bombardment. That way both our Loki's and Odin's could support the ground fight, and not to mention would help convince others to maintain orbit as all of a sudden, our fleet isn't just sitting around, doing nothing. (Yes, I know it isn't as simple as shooting down, but we have computers to do the math, do we not?)

May be overly specialized for one task.

Perhaps, but this was a very rough Proposal, not even on the drawing board yet, such a thing could easily be made to fill out scouting roles (attaching more sensors on the balloon), or as light Anti-Air (if it can target missiles, a larger, less maneuverable thing will be easy)

QS-04-Loki(b): (2) Strongpoint, SamSpeeds
QS-OAS-04 'Muninn': (1) Jilladilla

[NAV]

That Muninn has the same name as previous muninn revisions, but the description has been changed to copy Ertex system. It is copying.

[Madman198237]

QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr'
In order to counter the missile threat, the Huginn system used in the Hrungnir tanks is equipped with a super-miniaturized coilgun in an RC mount on the roof. This coilgun is optimized for fast firing and fast tracking instead of raw power, and so uses an extremely small, roughly 6mm projectile. The radar is boosted in power and the Huginn system reprogrammed (slightly) to shoot down incoming missiles rather than taking hits. The system ALSO comes with a Patented Physics-Restoration Device, a book containing the laws of physics as we know them, to force the glowing craters to disappear.

QS-04-Loki(b): (2) Strongpoint, SamSpeeds
QS-OAS-04 'Muninn': (1) Jilladilla
QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr': (1) Madman

[Maximum Spin]

QS-04-Loki(b): (2) Strongpoint, SamSpeeds
QS-OAS-04 'Muninn': (1) Jilladilla
QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr': (2) Madman, Maximum Spin

[Jilladilla]

Well... Given the opposition towards making any evasive system because Ertex did it first, I suppose I'll switch votes..

QS-04-Loki(b): (2) Strongpoint, SamSpeeds
QS-OAS-04 'Muninn':
QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr': (3) Madman, Maximum Spin, Jilladilla

[Maximum Spin]

I'm pro-evasion, but want the Ullr first.

[Madman198237]

Well... Given the opposition towards making any evasive system because Ertex did it first, I suppose I'll switch votes..

QS-04-Loki(b): (2) Strongpoint, SamSpeeds
QS-OAS-04 'Muninn':
QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr': (3) Madman, Maximum Spin, Jilladilla

It's not that I don't want to evade things, it's that with stealth ships we shouldn't need evasion that much, and we also need to shoot down those blasted missiles if we ever want to win ground warfare.

[evilcherry]

Well... Given the opposition towards making any evasive system because Ertex did it first, I suppose I'll switch votes..

QS-04-Loki(b): (2) Strongpoint, SamSpeeds
QS-OAS-04 'Muninn':
QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr': (4) Madman, Maximum Spin, Jilladilla, evilcherry

It's not that I don't want to evade things, it's that with stealth ships we shouldn't need evasion that much, and we also need to shoot down those blasted missiles if we ever want to win ground warfare.

Who would have thought of old-fashioned CIWS, which should also make a very good anti-infantry weapon?

[NUKE9.13]

QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr'
In order to counter the missile threat, the Huginn system used in the Hrungnir tanks is equipped with a super-miniaturized coilgun in an RC mount on the roof. This coilgun is optimized for fast firing and fast tracking instead of raw power, and so uses an extremely small, roughly 6mm projectile. The radar is boosted in power and the Huginn system reprogrammed (slightly) to shoot down incoming missiles rather than taking hits. The system ALSO comes with a Patented Physics-Restoration Device, a book containing the laws of physics as we know them, to force the glowing craters to disappear.

QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr' (Easy): (4+2)+1=7: Superior Craftsmanship
The Ullr system is a simple addition to the Hrungnir, or any other vehicle, and serves ably as CIWS, shooting down incoming missiles, or nearby troops (and can recognise the difference between friendlies and enemies). There's not much to say; it just works real well.
Oh, and physics is restored. Sarissa missiles now have a 100m kill radius.


It is now the Strategy Phase of SY104.

Spoiler: Tech List (click to show/hide)

Ships
ITC (Interplanetary Transport Craft): The ships that carried colonists to your homeworld, now repurposed as military transports. They use rocket shuttles to ferry things to and from the surface. These shuttles have a limited capacity, meaning that with the exception of troops, the ITC cannot carry any equipment of a size greater than 1TC. It has 4TC. It uses chemical engines for propulsion. It has no armour or armaments. It is Very Slow, and quite large.
Cost: 2SPP
  QS-RAS-00 'Dove': A heavier shuttle for the ITC, powered by a Loki-class Stardust reactor and fitted with Apollo thrusters. It has light armour and two 30mm Hayks. Can carry 3TC. Adds 1SPP to the cost of an ITC.

QS-CA-99 'Odin': A heavily armoured medium-sized spaceship. Her hull is all slope, the front being a point, from which slopes lead up to the widest point, then slopes lead down at the same angle, before being cut off, leaving a large flat area in the back, where the main thrusters are. Aforementioned main thrusters are three Apollos. She has five smaller thrusters mounted pointing in other directions, providing excellent manoeuvrability. Her powerplant is a Stardust reactor. She is armed with four Mjolnir turrets providing excellent coverage, and a single spinal-mount extra-long Mjolnir. Her weapons are aimed by the Huginn System, which automatically collects data from her improved radar. Her armour consists of a layer of Heavy titanium with faraday insulation, with a layer of Light ceramics mounted a full three meters away from the main hull. Despite her bulk, she moves at a Moderate pace.
Can be given Mirage Plating for an extra 0.5SPP
Cost: 3SPP

QS-SF-00 'Loki': A small-ish fighter, capable of independent operation for a few days before needing to resupply. A substantially downsized Stardust reactor provides power to the Apollo thrusters, as well as the singular Mjolnir coilgun. Has light armour, and a radio capable of same-orbit communication. Requires a transport to act as 'mothership'- two Lokis take up 1TC. They are now equipped with Mirage Plating.
Cost: 1SPP for two.

Equipment
Printed Pistol: Issued to security guards before the war, the only real weapon both colonies started with. They are 3D-printed out of plastic, a process which is not entirely reliable, meaning the gun has a tendency to break after prolonged use... or any use, really.
Cost: Cheap

X100 Space Suit: A civilian space suit, totally unarmoured and cumbersome to walk in. At least it works well enough, and has a self-sealing lining meaning a single shot isn't an immediate death sentence... most of the time. Necessary for deployment to worlds without breathable atmospheres.
Cost: Cheap

Interplanetary Radio: Essentially just a very big radio set, capable of reliable communication between planets. Too big to fit on an ITC. Currently only useful for taunting Ertex.
Cost: 2GPP
Weight: 2TC

QS-IRW-99 'Hayk': The Hayk is a micromissile-firing rifle. It is magazine fed, has a reasonable rate of fire, and is accurate at a surprising distance- theoretically out to Long range, although few are capable of such superhuman feats. There is an ammo variant which explodes on contact, though it is less accurate and in shorter supply.
Cost: Cheap

QS-GL-02 'Fog Machine': The Fog Machine is a simple grenade launcher, basically nothing more than an oversized Hayk with a shortened barrel. It fires either smoke/chaff or explosives. Range/accuracy is a bit of an issue.
Cost: Cheap


Vehicles
QS-MBT-02 'Hrungnir': The Hrungnir is a big tank, with fairly heavy armour in the form of a layer of ceramics atop a layer of titanium (all sloped). It is powered by a Stardust reactor, basically the same one used by the Loki. The energy is used to drive electric motors which in turn drive the treads upon which the Hrungnir sits. It is equipped with a 50mm stabilized auto-loading Mjolnir coilgun, the barrel of which can also be used to fire upsized explosive Hayk rockets. It has an electronics package that handles fire control and sensors. It also has smoke/chaff dispensers, which automatically cloud the vehicle in smoke/chaff (for atmosphereless planets) when sensors detect unusual heating.
It has an Ullr system mounted on the roof, and can be made mostly invisible with Mirage Plating for an additional 1GPP.
Cost: 4GPP
Weight: 3TC


Infrastructure

Colony Defence Grid: The reason you can't instantly invade the enemy homeworld. A series of surface-to-orbit missile launchers, the only real concession to self defence the planners of the colony made. How they work is a mystery, and no one wants to risk taking them apart to find out.

QS-CPP-96 'Stardust': A fusion reactor, copies of which can be found across Quillus, powering industry. Utilises powerful niobium-tin superconductors, cooled by liquid helium, to contain plasma in a Tokamak-style. The "Brokkr's Forge" improvements have made it slightly more effective, to the point where it reaches ignition. Grants 2GPP and 2SPP. A smaller version designed for use in spaceships also exists.


Loose Parts
QS-MAC-97 'Mjolnir': A coilgun (and definitely not a railgun) capable of firing 150mm slugs at considerable speeds. Requires a substantial power supply. Ground installations cost 1GPP for four. Ship mountings cost 1SPP for eight.

QS-MHD-98 'Apollo': A magneto-plasma-dynamic thruster of exceptional efficiency. Uses hydrogen plasma by default; heavier elements can be injected into the mix for a boost in thrust.

QS-MAMG-04 'Ullr': A highly effective CIWS system, using a miniaturised coilgun firing 6mm slugs, using Huginn-based aiming assistance. Excellent at shooting down missiles and enemy infantry alike.


Misc Tech

QS-PMP-96 'Auto-Forge': A 3D-printer that prints using metal. Not astonishingly accurate, but QC weeds out any pieces that aren't of acceptable standards.

Optical Metamaterial 3 'Mirage Plating': A miracle substance that defies what were once considered laws of physics. OM3 consists of complicated (yet not impractically so for production purposes) layers of materials that together can redirect light in essentially arbitrary ways. It is not perfect, and can only affect 90% of light, and requires a small amount of power to function. OM3 must be created to affect a specific wavelength of light, and only works on light in a band around that wavelength. Only wavelengths from near-X-Ray to the lower end of microwave can be affected.
Shrouds of OM3 can be constructed for your vehicle of choice, offering either a degree of invisibility, or pretty good protection from lasers, or both.

Eitr Rechargeable Superconducting Battery: A battery with 5x the capacity of conventional batteries. Unfortunately, it is expensive, and has a tendency to explode- or worse- when jostled even a little bit.

Spoiler: Observed enemy tech (click to show/hide)

Ships
ITC (Interplanetary Transport Craft): No differences noticed.

ESC-FS 1 'Cuttlefish' laser corvette: A medium-sized spaceship. The Cuttlefish's hull vaguely resembles its namesake. The 'beak' is a "Hermes" variable-water-injected fusion thruster, which draws plasma from the Helios-S reactor. It has very light armour, and has three AX4-Spear laser turrets, which are automatically aimed by the Athena RL System, which also handles evasive manoeuvres. The more ships in the fleet, the better Athena performs, due to her distributed computing. Its speed is Moderate, though it can inject extra water into the thruster for a temporary speed boost.
Cost: 2SPP
  Island-Alloy Armour: A few plates of Island-Alloy, formed into a basic armour covering for the Cuttlefish. Despite being thin, they increase survivability by as much as 100%.
  Cost: +1SPP


Equipment
Printed Pistol: No differences noticed.

X100 Space Suit: No differences noticed.

EAF-X1 "Ranger" Laser Rifle: A big, bulky firearm, weighing in at 15kg- just barely wieldable whilst standing. Works best against stationary targets. Can fire 30 shots in pulse mode before reloading, or 15 seconds in beam mode. Beam mode has pretty good armour penetration against conventional armour. Comes with basic scope and bipod. With the scope it is accurate at Long range.
Cost: Cheap
  EAF-PX3 Raider: A variant of the Ranger, using the new Picasso Pattern. Weighs a 'mere' 7.5kg. Fires shorter pulses, and deals more damage against moving targets. Does not have a beam mode.

Interplanetary Radio: No differences noticed.


Vehicles
EAC-TML1 Sarissa Missile Launcher: A nuclear-missile launcher consisting of three shuttle-loads worth of stuff: a small electric truck, a launch trailer, and the missiles themselves. The launch trailer loads 8 missiles, tipped with extremely small nuclear warheads for maximum 'tactical' performance. The missiles are controlled by Athena, who is now capable of flying missiles and identifying ground targets. Their range isn't great, and the launcher misfires (harmlessly) about 25% of the time, the guidance system is a bit wonky even under Athena's capable control, and the truck+trailer is slow and unwieldy, but still, nuclear-missile launcher!
Cost: 2GPP
Weight 2TC/1TC in shuttle.


Infrastructure
Colony Defence Grid: No differences noticed.

"Helios" Fusion Reactor: A large, Tokamak style reactor. Performs He3-He3 fusion, though it does not take full advantage of this. Provides 2SPP and 2GPP.
  Helios-S: A variety specifically designed for use in spaceships. A 'twisted' plasma flow allows for plasma to be siphoned off without disrupting the reaction.


Misc Tech
NQ Cells: About 15 times better than chemical batteries. Palm-sized, weigh about a kilo each. Despite their apparent complexity, manufacture and usage is simple.

Libum-265K: A near-room temperature superconductor. Manufacture is complicated.

Hephaestus Synthesis: A complicated process that produces small amounts of Insulanium- an isotope of a certain element that resides in the "Island of Stability"; it is very heavy, yet relatively stable. Produced in too small amounts to make anything practical out of it, it is instead alloyed with more common metals, which substantially increases their strength even with only 0.25% Insulanium added.

Spoiler: Production (click to show/hide)

Ship Production Points: 16+2+2(C)
  6 points: 3xITC
  9 points: 3xOdin
  2 points: 4xLoki
  1 point: 1xDove
  2 points: -

Ground Production Points: 16+2+4(C)
  5 points: 1xHrungnir
  17 points: -
 
Units: 5
  2 Units on planet A (No extra equipment)
  1 Unit on planet C (No extra equipment)
  1 Unit on planet D (Hrungnir MBT, Fog Machines)
  1 Unit on planet F (Fog Machines)

Spoiler: The Map (click to show/hide)

Don't even worry about this looking nothing like a solar system. Its, uh, optimal transfers or something. Look, it's dumb, but what do you want from me?

Key:
A: A volcanic world. Constant eruptions and earthquakes result in a thoroughly unpleasant environment. 4SPP, 2GPP
  E:1/6, Q:3/6
B: Rocky world. (Almost) no atmosphere, no major tectonic activity, this planets is... boring. The most notable terrain features are the craters that litter the surface. 2SPP, 2GPP
C: An ocean world. Covered in 94% water, with a breathable atmosphere, and a few inhabitable islands. Prepare for lots of island-hopping. 2SPP, 4GPP
  Q:6/6
D: An earthlike world. Covered in 69% water, with a breathable atmosphere, most of the surface being inhabitable. Terrain varies wildly, from open plains to thick jungles- and of course vast seas. 5SPP, 5GPP
  E:5/6, Q:0/6
E: A frozen world. Almost entirely covered in ice, with an atmosphere too thin to breathe. Ice sheets make for treacherous terrain, with snow-covered mountains being not much better. 2SPP, 4GPP
  E:6/6
F: Rocky world. (Almost) no atmosphere, no major tectonic activity, this planets is... boring. The most notable terrain features are the craters that litter the surface. 2SPP, 2GPP
  Q:4/6, E:0/6
G: A desert world. With a few salty 'seas' covering a mere 12% of the surface, the majority of this planet is dry as a bone. Vast sandscapes dominate, punctured by low, rocky hills, and the ocassional oasis. The atmosphere is breathable. 2SPP, 4GPP.
Ertex&Quillus: Earthlike worlds. Capturing the enemy homeworld results in victory. Yield no Production Points. I mean, they do, but those are already accounted for in your basic industry.