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[Thanatos Russ]

Well I guess at least we can produce two more fighters.

[Madman198237]

No, the SPP is for the Doves on a transport so we can drop tanks next turn.

[Thanatos Russ]

Cool let's do that then, I was more saying an example of what we could afford now.

[Strongpoint]

Plan Refit: (2) Madman, strongpoint

For the next design I prefer specialized design for D because we know that this is the place where the transport with the Dove will go and tank look like a generic design not something that will work especially well on D.

Purely atmosperic aircraft or logistic ships(seegoing ship) would be my choice for TC3 equipment for the design.

[Jilladilla]

Plan Refit: (3) Madman, strongpoint, Jilladilla

[Strongpoint]

Should we leave one unrefitted Odin at D?

 Just to make some presence on the orbit

[Madman198237]

No, we need the refits and I don't want to find out what they're planning the hard way (i.e., getting an Odin blown out of the sky).

Alright, a few suggestions for next turn's ground design. I want to stay away from aircraft right now, because Ertex is going to be really effective at anti-aircraft fire with lasers, almost as effective as we can be with railguns.

QS-MBT-02 'Hrungnir'
The "Brawler" Main Battle Tank is Quillus's first venture into ground armor. Utilizing the smallest Stardust we have (With the ignition improvements) to power a 50mm miniaturized Mjolnir coilgun that can also fire 50mm Hayk-style rockets (With relatively large explosive content) on a low-power setting, as well as an electric-motor-driven drivetrain running heavy-duty tracks. Medium titanium armor underneath Light ceramics like the Odin uses, coated with a highly reflective paint (In the laser wavelengths Ertex uses) provides protection from physical weapons. Heat sensors just under the ceramics detect laser shots and trigger a large array of smoke dischargers to fill the air around the tank with smoke (In atmosphere) or clouds of reflective metal chaff (In vacuum) that scatters or absorbs the wavelengths Ertexan lasers fire at, as well as notifying the fire-control computer of the side of the tank that was hit. A fire-control computer uses a broadband sensor package and a small radar set to calculate distances to targets. Every vehicle from now on will have a small IFF tag to allow the system to distinguish them from enemies. An automatic loading system and largely computer-controlled firing system reduce crew requirements. The weapon is fully stabilized for fire-on-the-move capability. A radio provides means for coordination. The vehicle will be as low-lying as possible, with a turret that slopes (With sharp angles at the corners for that extra-imposing look) down to the body of the tank to prevent shot-trapping should the enemy ever wizen up to the benefits of projectiles, while the tank itself is angular and the armor is generally sloped at any face you might look at, though the sides and back are much less sloped than the front. It is entirely atmospherically sealed, so whether your battlefield is the bottom of a river (Note: Please do not attempt to discharge the main gun at the bottom of a river, the reloading process might get a little soggy if you do) or the airless, lifeless rock that you really don't want to die on, you can fight there without a spacesuit!

QS-AIV-02 'Hel'
A tracked vehicle powered through the use of an advanced internal combustion engine fueled with Infernium-9, which contains its own oxidizer and packs quite a lot of energy, and packing a linked pair of remote-aimed 30mm Hayks with huge drum magazines full of explosive rounds, carefully re-engineered to be accurate even at Long rage, the goddess of the Dead (And Helheim) sends aircraft, infantry, and light vehicles alike to their death. Light titanium armor underneath Light ceramics like the Odin uses, coated with a highly reflective paint (In the laser wavelengths Ertex uses) provides protection from physical weapons. Heat sensors just under the ceramics detect laser shots and trigger a large array of smoke dischargers to fill the air around the tank with smoke (In atmosphere) or clouds of reflective metal chaff (In vacuum) that scatters or absorbs the wavelengths Ertexan lasers fire at. A fire-control computer uses a broadband sensor package and a small radar set to calculate distances to targets. Every vehicle from has a small IFF tag to allow the system to distinguish them from enemies. The weapon is fully stabilized for fire-on-the-move capability. A radio provides means for coordination. As an Armored Aircraft Interdiction Vehicle, the Hel is capable of elevating its Hayks to basically-vertical The vehicle will be as low-lying as possible, the armor is generally sloped at any face you might look at, though the sides and back are much less sloped than the front. It is entirely atmospherically sealed, so whether your battlefield is the bottom of a river or the airless, lifeless rock that you really don't want to die on, you can fight there without a spacesuit! There is no turret, but there is a low-lying Light ceramic armor "collar" around the RC Hayk mounting, so that a gunner can poke his head out relatively safely before reloading the gun (By using the two hatches on either side of the mounting).

QS-APC-02 'Sleipnir'
A box on tracks, covered in Light ceramic armor backed by Light titanium armor with a 30mm Hayk loaded with explosive rounds mounted on the top in a remote-controllable pintle mount. Powered through the use of an advanced internal combustion engine fueled with Infernium-9, which contains its own oxidizer and packs quite a lot of energy, the Sleipnir APC should be fast, while capable of carrying a full squad of soldiers and their gear. It is fully amphibious and airtight, capable of delivering troops to anywhere, any time, with ample firepower to keep the enemy away.

[Strongpoint]

Those try to be extremely universal when there are simply no short term need for that. Like that APC,  Infernium-9 and air tight = make this thing more complex than we actually need for the upcoming battle for D. Long term planning shouldn't prevail over the need to actually win battles.

[Madman198237]

Or we can do it all in a vehicle that's probably Easy.

I can't seem to convince you that saving actions for later by doing universally applicable things is better, so I guess I'm going to stop trying.

[Strongpoint]

We will design new more advanced ground equipment, right?
We have no ability to produce transport many of the those, right?
We'll need to garrison D, right?
Why do universal thing now if we can do it later when we'll actually have industry and transports to use them?

[Madman198237]

Because then we'll have the designs to spend later as well, instead of having our hands tied behind are back?

Imagine:
Enemy builds a tank that can be used everywhere. While we build tanks for every single place, they also build an aircraft, three more capital ships, and a fighter design.

We're *dead*, even if our tanks are really cool and specific to each world and absolutely no better than a simple (Well, sometimes simple) vehicle capable of working everywhere.

[Maximum Spin]

We will design new more advanced ground equipment, right?
We have no ability to produce transport many of the those, right?
We'll need to garrison D, right?
Why do universal thing now if we can do it later when we'll actually have industry and transports to use them?

Because you'll have other problems later too. You've got to work on infrastructure first. And always. It's always about the bigger picture, or it never is.

[Strongpoint]

Enemy builds a tank that can be used everywhere. While we build tanks for every single place, they also build an aircraft, three more capital ships, and a fighter design.

They seem to have more design actions than we do As well as a far better ability to transport things around.

Lets look at more realistic timeframe.

Next turn: We design D-specific, they design universal. Both of us move it somewhere (most likely D)
Next turn after that: Both of us pull transports back, design space related stuff
Next turn after that. We transport nothing
Next turn after that. We both transport one universal thing because space in transports is limited.

Also, there is a way to turn specialized thing in a more generic by revision. Like go for an APC focusing on combat ability, later, when we need it, upgrade it with new all environment package by a revision.

[Madman198237]

Except you don't want ANY generalized vehicles, you keep begging for a specialized vehicle for every place. Which means for every vehicle the enemy makes and we counter, we've got to spend two to five times the development effort.

Or we can just produce some sealed vehicles capable of operating in most terrains (Note to self, figure out way to make anti-laser smokescreen work in near-vacuum....) and be done, knowing that the difficulty it adds to the design of a good tank doesn't increase it enough that we need to make special versions.

[Maximum Spin]

(Note to self, figure out way to make anti-laser smokescreen work in near-vacuum....)

Wait, why does that need a "way" to work? I'm thinking basically a pressurised glitter packet that blasts reflective metallic chaff toward enemy ships, dissipating laser energy and also forming a debris cloud for them to slam into at high speeds.