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[Strongpoint]

I like the above and see nothing wrong in it but I want something more devastating. And I believe we can target their main strength - the AI

QS DCD 05 Thyle
QS DCD 05 Thyle is a man sized computer unit with a number of sensors. Its main purpose is decoding, analyzing and mimicking enemy communications and Athena commands. Minimum goal is gathering intelligence and misinforming both human comanders and AI system. Maximum goal is hijacking enemy  weapons systems.

Look, their communications will be one huge chaos, Athena will get false data, we may jam their drones and even redirect their damned nukes on their hands. This will have great impact on D. Furthermore unlike power armor it is useful both for navy and land forces.

[Maximum Spin]

Weren't we already planning on doing Muninn as a revision? No need to waste a design on computers when we already designed one.

[Strongpoint]

Why I want Thyle over Heimdallr

1) I expect a much larger impact on D. Intelligence from intercepting messages is a serious boost alone
2) Power armor replacing regular spacesuits is far important on non-Terran planet but we aren't sending one there
3) It helps both navy and army
4) It demands an immediate response from them disrupting their plan, and yet it is very hard to counter completely
5) I believe it is more resistant to low rolls. We may get something close to unusable even from below average armor because we start with bad power source, I expect to have at least some positive effect even from bugged mess Thyle
6) Generic computer experience is good for improving AI later. Power armor is good for battery powered stuff, do we plan any, anytime soon?
7) Armor is great to distribute to many planets at once, when we have many transports at home world. In that case effect would be huge. One unit of armor armoring half of soldiers on one world... not so much

Weren't we already planning on doing Muninn as a revision? No need to waste a design on computers when we already designed one.

Well, it is not a Munnin. And how is this waste if it offers synergy to that revision?

[Madman198237]

1. Maybe? I'm not convinced anybody does a lot of talking over radios and whatnot right now, seeing as how our troopers might not have them.
2. That's really not true, armor is armor no matter where it is.
3. Our navy really doesn't need any improvements right now.
4. So does, and so is power armor
5. Yeah, power armor is a risk. So is war.
6. First off, we have 0 AI experience so far. Second, generic computer experience < actual AI design, and it's far better to lead with the AI so the AI can do our hacking for us.
7. Same thing happens with a hacking device.

[SamSpeeds]

Good plans across the board!

As of now, I see the advantages of the Heimdallr as:
1. Allows our troops to compete with theirs in durability.
2. Would improve our batteries and maybe let us make mechs in the future if we wanted.
3. Give us better battlefield awareness (than we had before, they arguably have better since Athena controls like half their infantry)
4. Invisible troops! A Big Boon.
5. Pretty much useful everywhere, on any planet.

But I think if we go this route we should finally fix the Fog Machines to be effective at covering our advances, diluting lasers, and doing more damage to their durable drones. Also it relies on fixing the batteries AND making a new suit, which might be hard to fit into a single design.

And I think the advantages of the Thyle would be:
1. Basically counters their big man fleet advantage (Athena).
2. Disrupt their Aegis.
3. Disrupt the Sarissa.
4. Disrupt ANY non faraday vehicle, drone, or device with Athena that they produce in the future.

I think the biggest issue with this is that it will only really have an effect on D, which is the only place they've deployed ground Athena guided forces, while Heimdallr is pretty much a boon anywhere. Also, it's a little unambitious for my tastes, but that's just me.

I personally see these designs as roughly equally valuable and could go either way (we should definitely make both at some point) but I'm sure that our engineers with BIG MASSIVE BRAINS will make BIG MASSIVE ARGUMENTS as to what is the Only Correct Choice.

Also, Madman, the Aegis have to communicate with something I think. Also, their navy gets scarier every turn (they fielded SEVEN armored cuttlefish this turn, clearly Island Alloy is infinitely cheaper than it was a year ago) and having naval supremacy will help us on the ground. I think kinetic bombardment would be a nice upgrade to the Odin's that would help us a lot planetside, though we shouldn't do that now.

[Madman198237]

The hacking device won't be able to hack all that stuff. It might be able to hack the battle droids (Reliant on radio communication) and it might be able to hack Athena (Again, relies on inter-vessel communication). The Sarissa does not rely on radio input that goes directly to the computer.

EDIT:
As for their navy getting "scarier", we have fought them with the same three ships since the beginning of the game, and I intend to fight them with the same three ships til the end of the game. That's how inferior they are. They're throwing 7 against 3 and they aren't even bringing down a single ship.

[SamSpeeds]

It could mess with Sarissa, maybe not directly, but it still could, since they rely on radio from infantry to locate tanks, as shown by the report.

EDIT: As for navy, I like the Odin as much as the next guy, but they can still be countered, and potential naval advantages shouldn't be ignored. What if, for example, they got much better nuclear missiles? The Ullr works on their clunky nukes at the moment, but there's no telling how effective it would be against a faster, smoother, more powerful missile.

[evilcherry]

Not a big fan on radio / AI jamming since:
- they will soon make their AI self-contained
- Unless they make a horrible roll (and thus their AI relies on external IFF), at worse you can just render their robot infantry useless.
- While jamming is conceptually relatively simple, misleading droids via the airwaves is orders of magnitudes harder, and is very easy to spot.

We have enough breathing room to try a support aircraft, dogfighting spacecraft, or a mixture of both. It would be a waste if we don't try when we have the luxury to.

Vedrfolnir FF QS-05 (1): evilcherry

[Madman198237]

Vedrfolnir FF QS-05 (1): evilcherry
QS-PIA-05 'Heimdallr': (1) Madman

[Strongpoint]

3. Our navy really doesn't need any improvements right now.

Wrong. We need to invest in staying ahead. Looks like they spent surprisingly little on navy so far, I don't want to be stomped when they'll introduce new ship. Besides two-way designs are just better because they are two-way

4. So does, and so is power armor

No. It doesn't require specialized answer. Any design that improves land forces in any way counters power armor. Power armor is just > make infantry slightly better in everything.

5. Yeah, power armor is a risk. So is war.

This kind of approach is wrong for chance based decisions in games. Risks must be calculated.




I dislike what we'll get on terrible to low rolls > slightly less bulky spacesuit with dangerous powersource. Neither I am super thrilled on what we'll get on high rolls > mundane power armor.

I do not think that Vedfolnir is great short term (unlike many of past turns when I offered an aircraft\aircraft-spacecraft)  but I dislike long term direction of going for power armor (especially the fact that it gives no useful tech for navy), I don't think that thyle can get votes so this is my preliminary vote.

GPP aircraft, industry related design, design to get 6th unit of infantry, or any 1TC ground design I'll like may persuade me to change my vote

We wouldn't need designing TC1 vehicle if we went for an utility vehicle instead of QS-GL-02 'Fog Machine' nearly totally useless thing that gave no useful insights. Power armor reminds me that Fog Machine. After all it goes for the same goal - magically make enemy laser rifles useless

Vedrfolnir FF QS-05 (2): evilcherry, strongpoint
QS-PIA-05 'Heimdallr': (1) Madman

[SamSpeeds]

The Fog Machine failed because it rolled poorly. It would have a nice niche if we revised it successfully. Specifically, giving our infantry something powerful enough to destroy/disable Aegis with ease.

Also, does the Ved Fighter use GPP or SPP? It's a little unclear from the writeup methinks.

[Strongpoint]

The Fog Machine failed because it rolled poorly.

Do we want designs that are useful only when they roll good? Would an alternative in a form of a boring utility vehicle be that useless with the same roll? Wouldn't we get a useful experience for future land vehicles? Wouldn't we get a way to spend more GPP? Wouldn't we get a thing we'd actually want to revise one more time? Wouldn't we be able to apply metamaterials and Ulir to it?

Also, does the Ved Fighter use GPP or SPP? It's a little unclear from the writeup methinks.

Vedfronir is navy's ship and operated and supplied by navy pilots even when supporting ground forces.

I think the only way to make it more clear is to write: it uses SSP and SSP only. I abandoned idea of mixed SSP\GPP cost because it looks too complex and gamey.

[Jilladilla]

The Fog Machine failed because it rolled poorly. It would have a nice niche if we revised it successfully. Specifically, giving our infantry something powerful enough to destroy/disable Aegis with ease.

Also, does the Ved Fighter use GPP or SPP? It's a little unclear from the writeup methinks.

It's capable of actual fighting in space, so it would be using SPP. (If it was capable of only hurling itself into space but only staying there for like an hour or so, that might still be GPP only. Maybe.)

Now that said, I do want to get our foot in the door for electronic warfare. Athena works off of a distributed network, so there are transmissions we can mess and tamper with.

Vedrfolnir FF QS-05 (2): evilcherry, strongpoint
QS-PIA-05 'Heimdallr': (1) Madman
QS-DCD-05 'Thyle': (1) Jilladilla

[SamSpeeds]

Sorry bromeo, the whole "atmospheric fighter" part confused me.

[Strongpoint]

Vedrfolnir FF QS-05 (1): evilcherry
QS-PIA-05 'Heimdallr': (1) Madman
QS-DCD-05 'Thyle': (1) Jilladilla, strongpoint

Yes, I tend to change my mind. As much as I like my pet fighter project  it can be designed in any later turns, Thyle is good to deliver now and I believe it will be somewhat useful whatever the rolls and whatever the enemy will do, so if it has a chance for winning I am going for it.