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[Strongpoint]

QS-OMC-04 'Aesir': (1) Madman
QS-OM3-03 'Mirage Plating': (2) Jilladilla, Thanatos Russ
QS-FF-04 Vedrfolnir )1) Strongpoint

We need airforce more than ever. Their nukes must be countered if we want to not let them to have D

[Jilladilla]

We need airforce more than ever. Their nukes must be countered if we want to not let them to have D

Their nukes have a really small blast radius. They only kill a Hrungnir if it lands with 10 meters of it. And they don't have enough nukes to just carpet bomb everything. The Hrungnir is eerily silent, so we can get away with stealth tanks once we make them invisible; they'll be hard pressed to defend their slow, vulnerable nuke launchers after this! Or even Lock-On to our tanks with the nuke missiles. And it'd help us in the space theater too.

It's probably the lateness of the time, but does your proposal actually attempt to mount the proposed plating onto anything? Cause if not, that's going to be an issue if, I dunno, we get a bad roll for the revision for a change (Looking at you, Orion/Artemis/Hayk) and then have to send the Odins back out (Or worse, not send them out) without the plating.

Yup, Mirage Plating attempts to attach it to the Hrungnir's, Loki's, and Odin's; in addition to trying to expand the range of things it can be invisible to.

EDIT: (Yell at me if I forgot to replace any ___)
Civilian Design: Eitr Rechargeable Superconducting Battery
Those of you who wish to see the sights of Quillus or of the other planets are in quite the conundrum: Traditional combustion engines are damaging to the environment, electric engines have issues with range; while Solar Power helps, it has its own list of issues, and while the Stardust Reactor addresses both of those issues neatly, very, very few can afford one. We at Lorf Research and Development have brought you a solution: A battery, one far more advanced than any before it. Utilizing an impressive compound able to store electrical charges itself, it doesn't have to deal with the inefficiencies of converting other forms of power into electrical energy! What's more, the Eitr's wiring consists of superconductors, to both further reduce inefficiencies and greatly expand its shelf life! But exploration is not all it does: It can serve as an emergency backup generator! A capacitor! A place to store the energy created by your solar or wind farms! And even more!
Now come, buy your Eitr today, and be free from the limitations of today's meager rechargeable battery lives!

Note: Lorf R&D claims no responsibilities from injuries acquired from prying open the Eitr's safety case. Do not open the safety case, if it is cracked, send it to a qualified technician for repair. If the Eitr's safety case becomes room temperature to the touch, send it in for replacement. Do not lick the Eitr. While using the Eitr in a larger container as a fridge is possible, and has no apparent side effects; we do not recommend it. The Eitr is not to be taunted under any circumstances. The Eitr is mostly a mass of electrically charged superconducting wire and liquid nitrogen, please do not open the safety case.

[Strongpoint]

Their nukes have a really small blast radius. They only kill a Hrungnir if it lands with 10 meters of it. And they don't have enough nukes to just carpet bomb everything. The Hrungnir is eerily silent, so we can get away with stealth tanks once we make them invisible; they'll be hard pressed to defend their slow, vulnerable nuke launchers after this! Or even Lock-On to our tanks with the nuke missiles. And it'd help us in the space theater too

It is very inefficient to replace current tanks on D with new tanks. Current Hrungnir + any new design is far better than upgraded Hrungirs and nothing else. We still need full transport run to send tanks there. As for the space theater... Even total victory on orbit won't save D. I simply don't care if we'll get another victory like one we got last turn or even slightly better. Such victories give us big and tasty nothing, especially with the brilliant strategy of retreating when we are ahead.

[Madman198237]

QS-OMC-04 'Aesir': (1) Madman
QS-OM3-03 'Mirage Plating': (2) Jilladilla, Thanatos Russ
QS-FF-04 Vedrfolnir )1) Strongpoint

We need airforce more than ever. Their nukes must be countered if we want to not let them to have D

I think going invisible is just about as much of a hard counter as you can get, actually. We finish the work on OM with the design (Vote Aesir, it has a cooler name and is also more specific!) and then could use a revision to apply it (Probably...) to a spacesuit.

I WILL be working on civilian designs later today. However, it might not happen for about 8 hours.


You, strongpoint, need to review everything that has happened in this game since turn 1, and then tell me again that retreating to be ready to fight again is a bad plan. EVERY time a battle is fought, Ertex retreats and upgrades to counter us. We've only continued to win because we've done the same thing. We've never been "ahead", we've never destroyed their navy entirely, without casualties of our own.

As for replacing tanks being efficient...you're wrong there, too. The stealth Hrungnir would ENTIRELY replace every Hrungnir in the field (Fills the same role, except it's just BETTER, and we only have one unit on D), so it would be most efficient to then move them to somewhere the enemy does not have portable war-crime-launchers.

[NUKE9.13]

Yeah, no, you aren't gonna get a hard counter.

[Madman198237]

I mean, they're hard countered until they develop/deploy IR sensor suites or helmet/visor things.

[Strongpoint]

You, strongpoint, need to review everything that has happened in this game since turn 1, and then tell me again that retreating to be ready to fight again is a bad plan. EVERY time a battle is fought, Ertex retreats and upgrades to counter us.

And I don't care if they'll come back with upgraded fleet and win one battle if we'll use benefits of our victory first. Last turn space victory could prevent or at least reduce effectiveness of their reinforcements. We are losing because we did awful strategical turn. And it is far from certain that we would lose battle afterwards.

As for replacing tanks being efficient...you're wrong there, too. The stealth Hrungnir would ENTIRELY replace every Hrungnir in the field

You want to say me that Hrungirs will magically get upgraded with new tech without any need to use transports? I don't think it works that way. I expect that we'll need to deliver new tanks from home. Or do you mean that we can simply abandon D and start delivering tanks to other planets? In this case... It is still not more efficient because we can send more than one transport and having two designs is better.

We are losing D because we went for a zero immediate impact design+revision and combined that with an awful strategical turn.

[Madman198237]

Wait, what WERE you arguing against doing with the tanks on D? It seems very unclear now, I thought you were arguing against replacing them (i.e., dropping off the new tanks and then moving the others somewhere else)


As for your opinions on space combat...this is why nobody has done what you've suggested, Strongpoint. You aren't thinking even in the middle term. Why does it have to be immediate gratification?

[Jilladilla]

Okay, Strongpoint, I get that we picked the wrong strategy, that we picked Rock when they picked Paper. It was a calculated risk, and it turned out to be true.

If we left the entire fleet there, we would've stopped this shipment, yes. This turn, that is. We'd have to pull back and let the next shipment go through though, as they would have a fresh fleet to back it up. It would be our Paper, in the Rock, Paper, Scissors analogy.

Now leaving the undamaged Odin behind? The risk there was if they did the same with their fleet, and we could've been down an Odin.. This would have been the correct choice, yes. But how could we have known this? If anything, I would've expected them to move an ITC to redeploy their unit on the frozen world to the front.

But this is the past... Arguing over 'what could've been' is meaningless, channel that energy into 'what are we going to do 'now'. And really, who could have seen this coming? (Other than NUKE, hush you)


As for voting, go for the Mirage Plating! I have a history of good luck on the 3rd action! (Look at the Stardust and the Hayk for proof!)


(OK WHAT THE HELL GUYS. WHAT THE HELL.)

You want to say me that Hrungirs will magically get upgraded with new tech without any need to use transports? I don't think it works that way. I expect that we'll need to deliver new tanks from home. Or do you mean that we can simply abandon D and start delivering tanks to other planets? In this case... It is still not more efficient because we can send more than one transport and having two designs is better.

We're shipping in new tanks.. And yes, the Optical Metamaterials was zero impact, as they were. But a lot of spring-board techs have a tendency to be that; near useless in their infancy. But there is only so much low hanging fruit to grab. And the sooner we get such things up and running when everything is not 'on fire' the better.

[Strongpoint]

Wait, what WERE you arguing against doing with the tanks on D? It seems very unclear now, I thought you were arguing against replacing them (i.e., dropping off the new tanks and then moving the others somewhere else)

Dropping upgraded tanks on D is bad. It makes tanks that are already there useless for the battle. Instead we can deliver something that can work together with tanks. It is if we care about holding D.

As for your opinions on space combat...this is why nobody has done what you've suggested, Strongpoint. You aren't thinking even in the middle term. Why does it have to be immediate gratification?

I am simply not ignoring short term benefits. It is not the same as not thinking mid term. With your approach to the navy we'll never use our advantage unless we absolutely crush them with no damaged ships on our own.

Each time we'll win, we'll retreat because they can regroup and counterattack.

Lets look at the next battle over D. I see three realistic variants with our current strategy.

1) we win and retreat because we have damaged ships and can't fight against their fresh ships next turn
2) we lose and retreat. They retreat, too
3) We lose and retreat. They don't. We come back one turn later. We win. We retreat because we have damaged ships and can't fight against their fresh ships next turn

2 variants give us nothing, third is actively harmful.

[Madman198237]

Yes, yes it DOES make them useless. But it gives us more of a chance than the aircraft, which require a full design we can't spend if we want to be able to deploy the things from transports (i.e., if we want to win space in order to get things down to the ground).

It ALSO allows us to send the transport immediately to another planet to drop off more firepower for somewhere else, like F where we need to just steamroll them off our planet.


The solution to the problem of not holding domination over orbits can probably be solved either by deploying Lokis and transports wherever we want protection (Definitely not a great plan) or by revising Lokis to operate independently, so we can deploy them between major space-battle turns to destroy transports that might try to take advantage of our ships being gone.

[Strongpoint]

It ALSO allows us to send the transport immediately to another planet to drop off more firepower for somewhere else, like F where we need to just steamroll them off our planet.

If we'll lose the battle on D, there will be nothing to transport out of it. Your plans never even assume any kind of failure or enemy acting not like you expect. In fact you always assume the best case scenarios (like them not sending reinforcements to D, even if that was extremely unlikely, they had nothing to lose but mere 2SPP)

But it gives us more of a chance than the aircraft, which require a full design we can't spend if we want to be able to deploy the things from transports

You mean more chance than aircraft and old version of tanks, right? You can replace aircraft with any new design. I am sure that two designs are better than slightly upgraded one design. Any second design is better than direct replacement of tanks (BTW, do you remember I told that tanks will be obsolete real soon and we should go for a D specialized design? It is happening even sooner than I expected)

[Madman198237]

They almost certainly won't be able to kill us all---that would be the whole "they're not as effective against guerilla fighters" thing about their nuclear launchers. Not to mention that unleashing stealth tanks will almost certainly turn the tide. Can't see them, can't nuke them, after all.

Tanks aren't obsolete, in fact a viable alternative would be to make a "microchip" or something with a revision, that can reprogram Hrungnirs to shoot down the missiles (And be easy to ship in on a transport and install in the field). It won't be perfect, but a railgun is the perfect ABM (Anti-Ballistic-Missile) device. Only the mounting leaves something to be desired as far as anti-missile tracking.

[Jilladilla]

I suppose as an alternative design... We make a car sized thing, it can deploy a tethered RADAR balloon, and it possesses a mini-Mjolnir on a very fast little turret, aimed by a Huginn. It's purpose? To shoot down their nuke missiles. And maybe do a tiny bit of scouting on the sides. But mostly on anti-missile duty.

Only issue is powering it. With them deploying on F, we'll have an ITC off the normal wave timing, giving us the ability to deploy something to D next turn; and I suggest this as next turn's potential design, for now.

[NUKE9.13]

Civilian Design: Eitr Rechargeable Superconducting Battery
Those of you who wish to see the sights of Quillus or of the other planets are in quite the conundrum: Traditional combustion engines are damaging to the environment, electric engines have issues with range; while Solar Power helps, it has its own list of issues, and while the Stardust Reactor addresses both of those issues neatly, very, very few can afford one. We at Lorf Research and Development have brought you a solution: A battery, one far more advanced than any before it. Utilizing an impressive compound able to store electrical charges itself, it doesn't have to deal with the inefficiencies of converting other forms of power into electrical energy! What's more, the Eitr's wiring consists of superconductors, to both further reduce inefficiencies and greatly expand its shelf life! But exploration is not all it does: It can serve as an emergency backup generator! A capacitor! A place to store the energy created by your solar or wind farms! And even more!
Now come, buy your Eitr today, and be free from the limitations of today's meager rechargeable battery lives!

Note: Lorf R&D claims no responsibilities from injuries acquired from prying open the Eitr's safety case. Do not open the safety case, if it is cracked, send it to a qualified technician for repair. If the Eitr's safety case becomes room temperature to the touch, send it in for replacement. Do not lick the Eitr. While using the Eitr in a larger container as a fridge is possible, and has no apparent side effects; we do not recommend it. The Eitr is not to be taunted under any circumstances. The Eitr is mostly a mass of electrically charged superconducting wire and liquid nitrogen, please do not open the safety case.

Eitr Rechargeable Superconducting Battery (Easy): (1+1)+1=3: Buggy Mess
Lorf R&D had a lot of potential. Investors were keen on the idea of better batteries, and the fact that Ertex had already done it must mean it is trivial. It is unfortunate, then, that the company suffered so many setbacks during the course of developing the Eitr Battery. To their credit, they never gave up. When their initial prototype exploded, they tried again. When the next one fell apart, they tried again. When that one caught fire, fell over, and sank into the swamp failed in ways that man was not meant to see, they briefly hesitated before trying again. And finally, they made something that did not- immediately- catch fire, explode, disintegrate, or fail catastrophically in any way. I say immediately, because anything beyond the most careful and delicate handling results in it doing one of those things, or something new and invariably worse.
It stores a very respectable 5 times the charge of a conventional battery- not the peak of theoretical performance, but not bad either. However, it is entirely impractical to use it in anything other than laboratory conditions, and it costs an arm and a leg for even a small battery. Lorf R&D went bankrupt, and was forced to sell the patent and all their research to the government for a pittance- we have free reign to do whatever we like with it. So there's an upside, at least.

QS-OM3-04 'Mirage Plating'
The OM2, a technology that holds a lot of potential in our endeavors against the ecological desecration of Ertex; namely as a way to get equipment into position to take out Ertexan artillery undetected as well as shielding us from their lasers.

Of course, further development is needed to field this, the technology just needs one final push. And with this, the OM3 'Mirage Plating', we believe we've done it. Most of the effort is to be put into increasing the range of wavelengths the OM3 can be 'invisible' to, while the power costs are annoying, we've decided that they are manageable. The rest of the effort is made to come up with a material that can be easily plated onto our current equipment: The Hrungnir, Loki and Odin, as well as any future equipment we come up with.

With the OM3, Ertex will never know what hit them.

QS-OM3-04 'Mirage Plating' (Easy): (1+4)+1=6: Above Average
By using more, thinner layers, we have managed to expand the range of affected wavelengths substantially. Mirage Plating can be tuned to affect the entire visible spectrum, and slightly into IR as well (or UV, but IR sensors are more common). We have also expanded the maximum range we can affect, which now covers all of UV (and edges a tiny bit into X-Ray) as well as all of IR and the lower end of microwave. Oh, and we boosted the percentage of light affected to 90%.
We have incorporated these developments into Mirage Plating that can be installed on all our vehicles.
For the Hrungnir, an OM3 skirt that causes 90% of light to be redirected around it, which makes it very hard to see from a horizontal angle, and difficult from above, where the image is sort of smeared, since it cannot be redirected underneath the tank easily, so it just spreads out the light from around the bottom of the tank instead. It is not completely invisible, but it is significantly harder to see, and should be less vulnerable to visible-spectrum lasers. It adds 1GPP to the cost.
For the Odin and Loki, we went with a high-frequency-redirecting anti-laser option. It is possible to install a visible-frequency or IR-frequency redirecting plating instead, if we want to, but the anti-laser plating will be default. It costs 0.5SPP for the Odin, and does not significantly increase the cost of a Loki.


It is now the Revision Phase of SY104.