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[Blood_Librarian]

Right now we should focus on tactics, the design/revision I posted earlier is not for the tactics phase of the arms race.

Will we have additional ships built or are the ones in the field all we have?

Plan A - dockyard (1) : Andrea, Blood_Librarian

[Chiefwaffles]

This is based on a theoretical future actually-AI version of Athena.
Supposed Problems with Current System
Potential conflict in how the system functions: The two networks won't be different because they'll both be Athena.
System Drift: This is just a repeat. See above.
Chain of Command: Or: "I do not understand how an AI works."
Vulnerability: What? Your proposed system would be vulnerable just the same unless you eliminated all communication between units entirely. And they'd have to basically re-design Athena on the fly if they wanted to hack it, as it'd be an actual AI - not a program with some config file that they could just go into and change it so "Ertex = Bad; Quillus = Good".
One-Path System: It is an AI. Its subsystems handle creativity and innovation. Your "solution" for this is to just externalize these systems, making communication and cooperation worse. Your argument only consists of making up problems that don't and wouldn't exist. Athena (barring bad rolls - something which we'll always have to deal with) will not have a loss of creativity.


"Athena Substructuring" only wastes an action and effort changing Athena into a worse version. And it seems much more like a Design to me. For comparison, here's my Revision which I had done early yesterday:
Future Revision: Athena – Personality Matrix
 
Athena is currently equipped with an artificial personality and voice. So what if we apply her combat learning capabilities to her “personality”?
 
The first step is implementing small holoprojectors in various relevant rooms of every Cuttlefish to serve as “terminals” for Athena, who will be given a holographic representation. Specifically, the representation will be whatever we end up feeling fits Athena best – abstract or human(oid). These terminals allow for Athena to be given a “physical” representation to the crew, making her feel more integrated with them. This is easy. Install holoprojector, make 3d representation (or if we’re feeling ambitious, delay this step until the end and see if we can let Athena come up with her own representation), bam.
The second step is the actual revision. We aim to fulfill the aforementioned goal of the revision – simply applying the already-existent combat learning capabilities to Athena’s “personality”. By doing so, we can make Athena act more human-like, able to more effectively communicate orders and information between herself and the crew. But the best part is that this should just allow for a more flexible and dynamic intelligence – Athena will be able to more effectively “react” to combat events and more effectively apply learned information (such as weak spots) with a more concrete “personality” instead of the rigid-er tactical network of before.
 
TL;DR: We apply Athena’s combat learning capabilities to her “personality”, hopefully allowing her more human-like “reactions” and “thinking” (aka more effectively directing our ships in combat, targeting weak spots, etc. etc. etc.) while allowing her to work better with the crew. Also give her “terminals” w/ holoprojectors displaying a “physical” representation of her – whatever symbol/human(oid) our engineers/Athena thinks is best.
TL;DR TL;DR: Apply Athena’s combat learning to her artificial personality.

Much easier, more effective, and doesn't waste time and effort for, at best, a meaningless thematic sidegrade.

[Happerry]

Plan A - dockyard (3) : Andrea, Blood_Librarian, Happerry

[Blood_Librarian]

snip

Potential conflict in how the system functions: This is for including new or isolated systems, preemptively making including foreign systems easier. It Makes non-Athena Systems into Athena systems easier.  It's kind of like how even though every nerve is part of the brain, not every nerve does the job of the cerebellum.
System Drift:This expands on the effects of Isolated systems, explaining it more in depth. Not. A. Repeat.
Chain of Command: Or: "We dedicate nodes to certain tasks with clearly defined roles."
Vulnerability:Oh, because having multiple security layers between one network and another TOTALLY doesn't decrease vulnerability? It gives more chances for the interception of hostiles because there are multiple borders between a theoretical breach and critical systems, instead of having the entire network being exposed from the breach point.  I am thinking of the network breach from alocal point, not from the ENTIRE network itself, IE the local units that it can individually sabotage.  This is also assuming that they can go around breaking the network with he digital equivalent of a machete. They may be able to do some damage and break or otherwise subvert the system if they put effort into it along with captured units; By placing the group system into action, there can be security systems and networking control between more risk adverse units so as to prevent risks. (Eg, A hacker using a captured ground drone won't be able to modify critical IFF information on the tank  without red flags being lifted.)
One-Path System:Oh Really?

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The already capable Athena is now an even more fearsome foe. The integration of a form of neural network has allowed for her to 'learn' on a far more advanced level. This hasn't had a massive effect on her accuracy against standard foes, but she can quickly identify evasive tactics and compensate for them. It has also improved her target-acquisition to the point where human intervention is not really necessary. Not only that, but by feeding her data on the Cuttlefish's movement, she has developed her own evasive maneuvers. They aren't substantially better than human- but that's due to a lack of processing power on a single Cuttlefish. Put several Cuttlefish together, and Athena's 'intelligence' increases. The more ships in the fleet, the better she handles them.

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TAthena really isn't a massive step up from Cerberus, techwise. She's just substantially more well made.
Securely encrypted intership communication and robust onboard computers integrate seamlessly with any sort of sensor you care to plug into the system. Currently, that only consists of our basic radar, and visuals. Since the system would be a bit lacking with only the basic radar, we put a little bit of effort into souping it up- our radar is now slightly more effective.
Athena can easily distinguish between enemy ships, friendly ships, and pieces of rock- and with basic learning abilities, will quickly integrate new information into herself, meaning the appearance of an unidentified ship will not faze her for long. She relays all this information to the crew through a basic holographic projector*, allowing them to pick priority targets for her to fire on (though she will attempt basic threat analysis herself without input, and choose targets based on that).
Her targeting abilities are exceptional, and we predict that her accuracy against Odin-esque targets should be around 90% (at medium range), and about 66% against the smaller and faster Lokis (which compares very favourably to the Cerberus System). She can also coordinate fire from multiple ships/turrets to 'box in' more agile foes, leading to all-but guaranteed hits.
She also has a nice voice and artificial personality- not anything like actual AI, but it raises the morale of the crew somewhat to hear Athena talk.

*We checked in with Moira Libum to see if she had any holographic technology. She was asleep at the time, and remained so for the 18 hours we spent poking around her home. We found nothing useful for us on this occasion. Fortunately, the local library was more forthcoming, and we were able to throw together a primitive system.
Both those texts from the GM Never mention that its an AI. None of the revisions or designs emplaced on it make it an AI. It is a smart network that learns. That's it. Unless somehow that's the same thing, then the revisions I have given push it to form a Smart Network that consists of several smaller smart networks. This segmentation is designed to make the network able to handle things besides spaceships besides "Make it into one network and cross our fingers." The Subsystems that handle creativity and innovation are vaguely defined, and that makes them inherently inferior to a system which is defined specifically, simply because I can't pick out their flaws. (The machine learns because it can! versus The machine learns by testing with experimental Subgroups!)

I am NOT making up problems that "Don't and Wouldn't exist". I am pointing out problems that can exist, but just because they would only happen by BAD ROLLS doesn't mean they shouldn't be preemptively fixed so that only problems that would be less disabiliating would appear instead. Why are we risking major flaws (inability to bring in foreign networks) simply because they would only happen on a bad roll? This is substituting the problems that we don't want to happen with problems that we can let happen or are beyond our control.



If you had looked at the title, I had put "Revision/Design", as I was not completely sure which one would make more sense.

The Personality matrix does not give enough benefit(Lets Crew interact with the AI slightly better) when what we have is sufficient. I would support a revision if it was to implement it into our society on a widespread scale before we commit to the plainly banal idea of making a SmartNetwork/Artifical network into something that can pretend to be human slightly better.

Furthermore, I would plan to push away all revisions and upgrades to AI and possibly orbital related systems until we can push the ground better.

Much more efficient and robust then a meaningless "upgrade" that would barely do anything.

[Chiefwaffles]

I know Athena isn't an AI. I'm being theoretical. You should know that, and I'm fairly insulted by you playing dumb about it.

The Personality matrix does not give enough benefit(Lets Crew interact with the AI slightly better) when what we have is sufficient

You have demonstrated that all you're willing to do is to pick and choose parts of what I say, conveniently ignoring the rest, in order to push your weak point across. This is especially demonstrated by the above quote, where you ignore everything but a couple lines of the Personality Matrix revision to fabricate a point.

[Blood_Librarian]

You keep desisting my revision ont he current version of Athena by the usage of "It's an AI" counterargument even though it's not an AI right now, and it's really frustrating.

I legitimately don't see how giving Athena a personality makes it a better combatant, or at least a better combatant then the revision I have put in instead of yours.

[sprinkled chariot]

Are there odds of ship with personality deciding, that it does want to catch space butterflies instead of being warship.
Or our cuddlefishes going BURN KILL MAIM LET THR GALAXY BURN IN LASER FIRE

[Blood_Librarian]

I assume its a non zero but statisticall insignificant chance of that type of operation occurring as of this moment.

[andrea]

Posting here a proposal for the competition

The ecology of Ertex

Water, oxygen, mild temperature. From far away, the planet that would later be called Ertex was remarkably Earthlike, which led it to being selected by most sensible colonists in the fleet as a new home. Records show the many ways in which colonists thought they would find their new home: lush gardens covering every plain, fantastic animals filling the skies, rich seas and rivers, offering exotic fish, birds singing never heard songs. All those speculations came to an end when the colonists stepped down from the Ertex and took their first look at the planet. It was mountainous, extremely so, barely leaving any flat area to build. But most worryingly, it was silent. Silent, grey, still. The wind was howling in the valleys and rivers were flowing, but no plants would grow in the mountains, no animal running. No blade of grass, no algae. To all analysis, even the soil was dead: rich of minerals, sure, but without any soil ecosystem whatsoever. There were theories that an oxygen rich atmosphere could not be a sure indication of life, and indeed Ertex seemingly proved them correct: It was completely earth like in environment, except for the fact that no trace of life could be found.

While a lesser people might have fled to planet “D”, Ertexites instead decided to stay. Such a world may be inhospitable to lesser creatures, but it still had all the essential resources. Food was grown using hydroponic farms, the lifeless soil of the planet used as a growth medium until it would finally become true soil. From this feedstock, large areas were seeded with fertile soil, bacteria and the first free growing Earth imported plants, which would eventually grow to create the environment colonists had dreamed of. However, the spreading of life in the land would necessarily be slow and that posed a problem: all the geological oxygen generating processes discovered were extremely slow by human lifetime standards and the needs of industry risked upsetting the atmospheric balance. The answer to this was simple: Project Poseidon was launched, to seed the sea with oxygen producing algae to stabilize the planetary atmosphere, and then plankton and fish to produce a full ecosystem. This time no soil preparation was needed, and ocean currents would quickly spread life everywhere.

It was at this time that evidence of previous life was discovered, in the form of organic deposits covering the bottom of the ocean. Current theories suggest that native lifeforms became photosynthetic with processes similar to those used by Earth life and started producing the great quantity of oxygen present today on the planet. On Earth, this caused a mass extinction known as the Oxygen Catastrophe which drove to extinction much of the then present life. Here, life could not adapt so quickly, perhaps owing to the oxygen releasing phenomena we discovered which would have made the transition to an elevated concentration much quicker than usual. The result was an evolution cut short at its beginning.

Today, Ertex is much different from what it was in the founding years. All the land in view of the cities is alive and many national parks are present and always expanded under the Demetra terraforming program. While much of the surface is still sterile, the consulate of innovation claims that growing efforts and natural spreading mechanisms would encompass the entire planet within the next hundred years. The ocean is the most resounding success, being teeming with life and ensuring the prosperity of planetary ecosystems. A minor ocean was kept isolated from the Poseidon project and instead is designated as a xeno life preserve, where the efforts of researchers try to examine, understand and resurrect the ancient Ertex life, which would shed light in the early days of our own evolution. The initial emptiness of the planet was not seen as a source of despair but as a blank canvas on which new life forms could be experimented. Free from the constraints of damaging an existing ecosystem, genetic modification was applied in many ways, from humble crop boosting to the creation of alien creatures, from fantastical unicorns and pegasi(which, sadly, can’t fly) to never seen before stuff like the multi eyed argonians. If any place in the universe is proof of human mastery over environment, it is Ertex.

[Chiefwaffles]

Blood_Librarian:

Athena -– Personality Matrix
 
Athena is currently equipped with an artificial personality and voice. So what if we apply her combat learning capabilities to her “personality”?
 
The first step is implementing small holoprojectors in various relevant rooms of every Cuttlefish to serve as “terminals” for Athena, who will be given a holographic representation. Specifically, the representation will be whatever we end up feeling fits Athena best – abstract or human(oid). These terminals allow for Athena to be given a “physical” representation to the crew, making her feel more integrated with them. This is easy. Install holoprojector, make 3d representation (or if we’re feeling ambitious, delay this step until the end and see if we can let Athena come up with her own representation), bam.
The second step is the actual revision. We aim to fulfill the aforementioned goal of the revision – simply applying the already-existent combat learning capabilities to Athena’s “personality”. By doing so, we can make Athena act more human-like, able to more effectively communicate orders and information between herself and the crew. But the best part is that this should just allow for a more flexible and dynamic intelligence – Athena will be able to more effectively “react” to combat events and more effectively apply learned information (such as weak spots) with a more concrete “personality” instead of the rigid-er tactical network of before.
 
TL;DR: We apply Athena’s combat learning capabilities to her “personality”, hopefully allowing her more human-like “reactions” and “thinking” (aka more effectively directing our ships in combat, targeting weak spots, etc. etc. etc.) while allowing her to work better with the crew. Also give her “terminals” w/ holoprojectors displaying a “physical” representation of her – whatever symbol/human(oid) our engineers/Athena thinks is best.
TL;DR TL;DR: Apply Athena’s combat learning to her artificial personality.

The idea isn't just "improve Athena's artificial personality."
It's more-so making Athena's learning processes more global - making her closer to an AI. Right now what our crew sees is nothing but an interface for a tactical network managing most aspects of our ships in combat. That's her current "personality" - just a front for inner operations.

What I want to do is make that personality Athena herself. So instead of "if combat.Status == 'Good' then say('The combat is going well, crew!')",  Athena's personality would be again - herself. The benefits may not be immediately clear, but that's understandable.
What it brings to the table is what I said - making her closer to an AI. So instead of just a pile of algorithms that extrapolate the best possible maneuvers based on prior combat data, Athena would do more "thinking". Like I said in the Revision itself, Athena would be more "humanlike" in her thought processes.
Instead of "Manuever A has 70% success rate in conditions similar to these, execute Manuever A" Athena would be closer to thinking.

Probably not an AI, but closer to one.


EDIT:
In other words, by making Athena's personality more dynamic and more of an actual part of her instead of just an interface for humans to understand, we can make her more human-like (w/o sacrificing tacnet benefits of course) and thus better at decisionmaking and reactions in combat.

[Blood_Librarian]

The overall goal that you claim is to stream line the personality so that it is expressed instead of an algorythm showing, but the Personality matrix could be encompessed into the  SubStructuring as well, wtih the added benefit of having any body of individuals/individual able to express a personality as well as the entirety of the Athena Network.

[Chiefwaffles]

It could, yes, but I don't believe that's a good idea.
It makes it impossible to do this in a revision - one of the main points of Personality Matrix. I don't consider your "added benefit" an actual benefit - just how it'd apply differently to your way (which I extremely disagree with) of doing a theoretical AI. The point of the Personality Matrix is to make the Athena tacnet closer to an AI.

And "stream line the personality so that it is expressed instead of an algorithm showing" isn't quite an accurate descriptor. The personality is already expressed and the algorithm doesn't show in the current Athena. As it stands, Athena, to the crew, is basically a really fancy Siri/Alexa/[whatever Google calls their voice assistant nowadays]. There is no personality - just a pretense of one. But this is generally good enough if all we care about is what the crew sees.

What I want to do with Personality Matrix is fairly simple: give Athena a personality. Apply an evolving, learning, personality to all of Athena instead of having it just be a fancy interface for the crew. It may not make Athena an AI, but it'll hopefully get close.

[Blood_Librarian]

I don't think that giving Athena a personality would make it more of a facsimile to an Artifical Intelligence. The only really effective method I can see  of making an Artifical Intelligence would
 be specifically altering the Athena Network to make the equivalent of "Children" and letting those children take over the network ad infinitum Until the program is smart enough to act as an artificial intelligence.

This does put the entire network at risk unless said network incorporates the changes I had put toward in the substructuring changes.

If the intended goal is a general AI, shouldn't we first encompass and teach it things besides the running of war machines? I believe that if we are going to go with your current plan, then the very first thing we have to do is push it through our other systems. Make it continually learn and even let it self-modify itself as it over time automates portions of our society. Right now i feel like it hasnt had much in the way of continual learning.

[TheFantasticMsFox]

Others have already covered the government, ecology, and basic values, but i felt one thing that has been missing is the actual culture of these people. So here is my shot at this. Going to try and incorporate some of detoxicated work, as well as some of the points made by Chiefwallfes. Drawing inspiration from Heinlein, Orson Scott Card and the strangeness of my own mind. It is Very rambly

Ertexite culture, having developed from the variety of colonists on board the colony ship, has taken some odd turns over its time. First arriving on ertex, it was a relatively hardscrabble existence for the first couple years. Limited resources, a new and strange planet, discontent from the break with the Quillus splinter faction all caused problem in these early days. With limited housing space at first, people lived very closely together with both family and strangers, fostering close knit clans that persist into modern ertex culture. Ertexites prefer large families that stay close to relatives and friends, resulting in ertex city planning to look like a series of compounds grouped together. While not distrusting of those outside these clans, there is a certain stigma attached to those unassociated with one. The names of clans are commonly of the first person to have died on Ertex belonging to that clan, though this convention varies.

Another lasting impact from the early days is the hatred of the Quillus, which was used by the early leaders of the colony to help unite the colony into a coherent body and divert blame from other failures. One derogatory nickname for them that remains in the current era is “Quacks” due to the distrust of them as well as ducks liking water.

One of the first things to become fully Ertex was cuisine, due to the limited types of food available. With early food of the colony lacking in flavor, one of the first culinary innovations was the idea of large, wheel like platters of assorted sauces, toppings, spices and additives to food acting as the hub of a meal. Accompanying this “wheel” where rectangular “spoke” plates, which recently have come as complete sets with the platters, acting as covers to individual divots for food. The staple foods of these meals are flat bread, tofu and soy protein patties/sticks, vegetables such as celery, potatoes, carrots and corn. Other foods are becoming prevalent, but these are the most popular foods. Some clans have gardens devoted to producing specific vegetables and other things to eat and trade with other clans.

One oddity of Ertex culture is the interaction of clans and the law. While authorities to handle a large percentage of crime that occurs, mainly inter clan crime, internally clans dole out their own punishments for crimes. Such punishments vary widely in severity, with the most basic being a simple apology and a “fine”, in the harshest of cases exile from the clan or beatings can occur. Intra-Clan killings are extremely rare, due to the relationship inside a clan. This state of affairs has until recently been mostly ignored by the authorities, but efforts to reduce it have begun to be encouraged.

Moving on to entertainment, the options for Ertexites to relax are an interesting mix. Music remains a staple, with the two largest genres being electronic, unaccompanied vocals, and instrumental. Older songs refer more to ideas of traveling and new frontiers, while newer music speaks more of opportunities and chances. Only 20 years ago did an orchestra first perform, named the Grand Ertex Chamber Orchestra, which has only grown in popularity. Its lead conductor, Madison Rhodes has become a clan-hold name and is seen as one of the greatest members of the second generation of ertex.

Alongside music, cinema remains prevalent, with earth-era movies remaing popular. Local grown movies are becoming more prevalent, but faces a lack of popular recognition. One movie that aims to change this state of affairs is titled simply The Founding, intending to show the growth of the colony from the very first days. It is directed by Andrew Nowak, a promising young filmmaker of the newest generation.

Another form of entertainment popular with Ertexites is bike races, which has taken the place of horse racing from Earth's cultures. Races are open to betting and attract many from all walks of life. There have been some recent scandals over drug use in Peddlers’ Place, one of  the most prestigious tracks, and over 20 bikers have been expelled from the EBL(Ertex Biking League). Bikes make up a large percentage of traffic on Ertex, carrying goods to clan-holds as well as acting as a basic form of transportation.

Possibly more coming.
Formatting got screwed up, some errors present.
Edited food produced by clans

[TheFantasticMsFox]

Continuation of my ramblings aka Lore Part 2: Electric Boogaloo. Addresses some operation of the clans, as well as the politics of the clans. Feel free to criticize, feedback is good.

   The clans an interesting role in ertex politics. The clans, as family groups, are legally subordinate to the government, however they do influence politics in a variety of ways.  Some clans have developed a reputation of political/governmental activism and participation, providing resources and opportunities to candidates they support, as well as nominating/presenting their own. The government's interaction with clans is an interesting one, as clans interact mainly with the local level, resulting in limited influence at the national level. One common occurence is clans preparing members to obtain offices throughout the government for the betterment of Ertex(and the clan). As mentioned before, pushes are being made to reduce the extralegal activities of clans when handling their own, though it is facing some limited criticism. Alongside this, some clans have begun a drive to voluntarily try and curb these practices of clan punishment, which is gaining some ground. Another political push that has a vocal minority is to give clans an official legal status beyond a family organization as something akin to a company, but this does not have widespread support.

   One side effect of clans is the population of clanless. These are people made up largely by those who wish to forge their own path, exiles for personal crimes in a clan, and those who wish to live a less than legal life. The population of clanless fluctuates wildly, with some coming together as clans, other clans dissolving due to internal strife. Criminals and exiles often form a mockery of a clan for the purpose of criminal activity. These have earned the name of “rats nests” due to this. This population of clanless is a large minority, out sized in total by those of clans, but larger than any individual clan.As a political voting block, they are as important as the clans, as they act as a solid voting base. Their current population is trending upward at this time, making up around 18.231% of global Ertex population
   
edited Clans and politics, as well as clanless population.