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Author Topic: The Fitness Thread - THE RE-SWOLLENING  (Read 62947 times)

NRDL

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #450 on: January 30, 2020, 02:01:48 am »

Good stuff, Nenjin.



Intermittent fasting has been real interesting so far. I'm down to around 75kg completely dry, first thing in the morning. Even after eating and drinking I tend to hover around 76-77kg.

I'm gonna continue this "eat less" experiment till about February 20. If I have lessened my weight even more by then, great. If not, I'll have been glad I was able to stick to this eating protocol for a month.

Then it's back to actually eating as much food as I can while training as hard as I possibly can.
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nenjin

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #451 on: February 05, 2020, 05:52:15 pm »

I know it's only been a few weeks since I started doing two leg days but man....I feel like just another day of legs but no increased calories has had a noticeable impact on fat loss. My sides are starting to get pretty lean. I still have a good grab on belly fat when sitting down, but standing it becomes a pinch. My love handles are starting to retreat behind me. I can see my obliques now.

Fact is, I think I hit a fat loss plateau some time ago. Or fat loss became so minimal it took weeks to see any real difference. Adding a 4th day changed the equation, for now.

So I guess I feel like I can pronounce this: if you wanna continue to eat the "bad foods" in smaller amounts, or eat preprocessed foods rather than make all your own healthy meals, prepare for fat loss to take a long time. It will happen, and depending on where you want to get to, can be pretty easy. But for getting lean, if you're going to not eat pretty clean, you have to make up for those calories with "more than average" amounts of working out.

I got caught up in under-estimating actual body fat previously, and as my expectations have grown I've had to get more realistic about where I'm at, how things are progressing.

In net, I've probably been in a relatively small (say 200 to 300 calorie) deficit most of this time. You just can't work hard in the gym without adequate calories and carbs. What I dropped from my diet in pure garbo I made up for in larger quantities of less garbo. So in the end I've been doing a glacially slow cut while trying to grow or maintain as much muscle as possible.

And I don't think that's ultimately a bad thing. I needed the foundation and discipline in working out first, while still making some kind of progress so I stayed motivated. I needed time to build up that mind muscle connection so my workouts were more effective. I needed to feel out how being almost 40 jived with coming to stuff like squats and deadlifts. I needed to adjust to and maintain a new approach to eating that would last and support what I wanted.

When I started I wanted to see how good I could look while still living a relatively normal life style, rather than a 100% fitness and nutrition focused lifestyle. At an average of working out 3 hours a week (which is not average for most people) and eating a) a lot of calories still and b) processed foods to a large degree, I could get to a point where people were like "hey, you look like you work out." Being naturally kind of skinny and not having great genetics for muscle building, I feel like I had less distance to travel than someone else who might be 250+ to reach that state.

Here's what I mean by all that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqJz_KNgXLw&t=253s

You've probably seen this guy around lots of movies as "fat guy side character." Well, look at him now.

Dude's a bear of a man. Me, I'm skinny and long limbed. He's working out and looking like a bear. I'm working out and have more athletic but absolutely smaller physique.

I guess the point of this ramble is: everyone looks different, has different genetics, and on top of that has different expectations for how they want to look. Hard work will get you so far, and nutrition will get you the rest of the way to however you want to look. I think for most people, if you want to look above average, you have to put in above average amounts of work and have an above average lifestyle in your nutrition. Some people are gifted, respond really well to training, have metabolisms that work with them instead of against them, and they take less effort and compliance to achieve impressive results. For the average person though, if you want to get anywhere near such impressive results, you have to put in work and compliance to nutrition at above average levels.

This isn't to discourage anyone. I think it's more an admission the way I've been doing things has its limits. While 3 days with 3 hours blocked out for training was feeling pretty normal at this point, at 4 days now I'm blocking out more time, there's fewer days right after work that I'm available for stuff, I get started later every day that I also need to do stuff afterwork like shop, so my actual night is shorter....you get the idea. The extra day working out is absolutely making a difference (I squatted and deadlifted my previous "heavy set" for multiple sets yesterday. 225x5x3 for deadlifts) and I don't even really have DOMs today. I'm getting stronger and burning more fat again. That's great. But it comes at a cost. I think I maybe missed a chance to hang out with someone I'm in to, simply because I was like "Yeah, I'd love to, but I have an hour and a half of working out and cleaning up to do first." When working out is non-negotiable in your book, and you do it this many days a week, you start getting a taste of how the "work out every day, eat boiled chicken rice and veggies" people treat fitness.

The more work I do, I feel like the further away I get from "anyone can do this." Although I do have to remind myself though that I've gotten to and below where a lot of people would have been like "I'm happy with this." I leaner I get the leaner I want to get.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 06:39:36 pm by nenjin »
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Yoink

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #452 on: February 06, 2020, 03:34:14 am »

I've been lazy as heck lately for various reasons I doubt I could even list, but I seem to have had an unexpectedly intense leg workout yesterday in the process of doing some weeding along the side of the house.
Not entirely sure how it happened, I guess it's because of how at times I was crouching down, grabbing a particularly stubborn chunk of plants at the base and then extending my legs as I tugged them out? I have pretty sore arse/thigh muscles today in any case, and I can't remember having done anything else unusual with them, so yeah.

Probably not a muscle group(s) I exercise very often, apart from the occasional set of squats which are unfortunately among the exercises I've been neglecting the most lately. My arms did their fair share of pulling and digging during the experience, and they aren't noticeably sore.   


Now, hopefully I can find the time and motivation to do some actual, intentional exercises tonight before dinner. We'll see.   
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NRDL

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #453 on: February 06, 2020, 04:32:34 am »

I've been on this new program "Bare Bones" for about a week, and I'm really enjoying how its set up. Autoregulated, using rep goals, training bench, overhead press, and squat twice a week, and overall it just kicks my ass in a good way.

I spent the entirety of last year fucking around and switching to some new cool thing I learned about every 2 weeks. Here's to hoping I can stick with this one, and not give in to my program hopping instincts. I've got the end date of May 2 in mind, so having a concrete point in time to look forward to should hopefully help.
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nenjin

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #454 on: February 06, 2020, 12:13:06 pm »

Yeah I'm pretty much the opposite. I don't seem to get bored with a routine, I find it very easy to make a plan and stick to it week to week. But I also take my increments very, very slowly. I like knowing I'm fully in control of a lift at a given weight, that I can get a really strong contraction with the full range of motion for as many reps as possible, before I try to progressively overload the lift. Really focusing on the mechanics of each lift is like, engaging for me. Doing really slow eccentrics, squeezing and holding that contraction at the top of the lift. It takes enough attention and focus and energy that I don't find myself bored with it. If I am getting bored, I just up the weight so the struggle keeps my attention.

Partly why I probably haven't had decent development in the last year. Like, I'm pretty sure I've been short changing my squat and deadlift for a while now, simply because I'm still very cautious about overloading my lower back. But I put up 165x5x2 on squats on Tuesday and was like "Ya know, I know I could go heavier than this. It will suck! But I can absolutely finish the rep." Same story with deadlifts.

Partly my rationale is that, for me, lifting is still a method of burning calories. At this point muscle gain is incidental. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, at least I'm helping maintain what muscle I have while I continue to drop body fat.

's partly the reason I really want to get this cut over with. I'd like to actually start accruing muscle on a regular basis from my workouts, and maybe switch from my high-intensity, short rest periods, 10+ exercises per workout to something a little slower paced. It's not that I can't keep up with my workouts or that I'm tired of the intensity, but I'd like to try something different once my priorities change. But it's clear I'm doing a lot. I basically put in more time and total volume in my gym than anyone else there. Kinda funny to see someone come in a few sets in to your own workout, and they're done with the cardio and their couple sets before you're even 3/4 of the way through your routine.

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Not entirely sure how it happened

Probably just maintaining a deep squat for a total combined time of a few minutes.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 12:19:01 pm by nenjin »
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Kagus

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #455 on: February 06, 2020, 12:38:52 pm »

Welp, this is fun. The progress I thought I'd been making is now all thrown out the window, on account of I've been doing squats and lifts wrong.

My glutes aren't activating properly. For anything, really. Which means that my lower back has been pitching in to help, and has therefore taken the brunt of the punishment.

So now I have to drop absolutely everything and start with remedial exercises and stretches to try and get my ass to wake up and do its fucking job. Hopefully, A) I actually can get the muscles back there to start firing when they're needed and stop being lazy-ass layabouts, and B) My back will eventually calm down and stop getting upset every time I so much as bend over to pick something up.


And as always I'm still not getting any endorphins or dopamine or feelings of accomplishment out of any of this, so gym days are all in all pretty miserable. Thus, naturally, I've kicked up to doing 5-6 a week now.

nenjin

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #456 on: February 06, 2020, 01:01:33 pm »

Just focus on squeezing your glutes with every step when you walk anywhere. It's something I've started doing on the reg. I too have poor glute activation but after really focusing on getting them to fire on deadlifts and squats, I do notice a difference. I REALLY notice the difference when I just fail to engage them at all, the lifts are much harder.

I'm also doing banded glute pull throughs. Basically you anchor a heavy band to something sturdy, step in to the band and let it rest across your hips or grasp the end between your legs, then walk out until there's plenty of tension in the band, lean forward until the band is basically the only thing from keeping you falling forward, then you go in to a deep squat. When you stand, you squeeze the shit out of those glutes and stand up in to like a 30 degree forward angle. Then back down, back up. This is one of those exercises you can probably do every day, although between squats and deadlifts twice a week I don't necessarily feel the need to. Your lower back may sing a little bit starting out because of the pull the glutes put on it, but really try to focus on making the glutes do all the work until your lower back isn't part of the equation at all.

https://youtu.be/qANsWXQLEy0?t=317
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 01:13:34 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #457 on: February 20, 2020, 05:24:11 am »

I've been playing Ring Fit Adventure lately. It's really good, I don't have to go anywhere so I don't have to tolerate gyms and their utterly shitty schedules that never seem to gel with mine and having to combat the constant feeling that I'm not using them to their fullest potential and therefore wasting money; and I don't have to go outside where the cold weather threatens to murder me. And it's really fun, you get to fight monsters with exercises, and it's fairly rigorous. In my opinion, atleast.

-
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 12:16:55 pm by JoshuaFH »
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Kagus

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #458 on: February 22, 2020, 04:59:45 am »

*grumble*

Okay, so, the good news is that I got my back checked out and the physical therapist said it looked fine, no pathological reason for any issues (even complimented/congratulated me on my flexibility). Basically I just went too hard too fast, and my back couldn't keep up so I ended up with a tweak. Got a prescription to chill the fuck out, do a couple remedial exercises, drop weight and focus on higher reps with lower weight in order to get the good form dialed in.

Bad news is that going from 70 to 40kg is of course really bloody demotivating, even if I am doing higher reps per set. Also, and I guess this is honestly a good thing, even just doing the 12 reps at 40 is being a horrendous pain because I can't seem to keep all my bodyparts doing what they're supposed to. I'm 184 with long legs and short arms, meaning that getting down to grip the bar has me curled up like a goblin fetus; so every time going to set the bar back down my shoulders come forward to try and get it all the way to the floor. It's a nasty habit and my brain's apparently way too preoccupied with getting my butt and back to do their jobs (and nothing more, in the case of ol' Backie) to keep an eye on my shoulders. Blah.

Another thing I've noticed, both with wormlifts and even more so with the squats... The weight isn't difficult. It really isn't. But I'm gassing right the fuck out almost immediately. I did some squats on Thursday, warmup with 30 and reps with 50, and while 50 was perfectly fine and I couldn't even feel the 30, after the first full set of 12 I could barely do 6 at a time without my head swimming and everything going a bit fuzzy. That was an absolute shitshow of a workout, I couldn't complete half my sets because I was scared of passing out with the bar on top of me, I even actually had a little blip where I let out my breath at the bottom of the rep and lost my tension.

Obviously the meds are playing a role in all this, but I've been working on cutting back on my dosages (working alongside the doc, of course), so theoretically it should be getting better... I did manage to (very fucking briefly) hit a BPM of 160 on the stationary bike yesterday though! Haven't gotten that high in... Shit, I dunno. Many years.


Meanwhile; the mini cat-mama who's my workout partner and who got me into this whole ordeal to begin with has been going absolute beastmode, doing leg press reps at 130kg+ despite herself not weighing 60 when soaking wet. She also just pulled out 9 sets of 8 hip thrusts at 70kg, with the 10th set being 10 reps. This girl eats about 600 calories on a very hungry day, we have no idea where she gets her energy from... Current hypotheses point towards nuclear fission.

The woman has pretty much never had a competitive bone in her body, but she's been opening up quite a bit and learning to take some pride in how ridiculous her numbers actually are.

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #459 on: February 24, 2020, 11:12:28 am »

Quote
I did some squats on Thursday, warmup with 30 and reps with 50, and while 50 was perfectly fine and I couldn't even feel the 30, after the first full set of 12 I could barely do 6 at a time without my head swimming and everything going a bit fuzzy.

You warm up with reps of 30 pounds and your working sets are 50 or....?

You could drop the rep count and increase the weight a little. It is a matter of personal preference of course, but 12 reps on squats sounds like hypertrophy work instead of strength work. That is going to tax you differently than fewer reps with higher weight. Fewer reps is going to stress your heart out less. Even doing a 5x5 on deadlifts, by the last two to three sets my heart is hammering and I'm sucking wind. Maybe shoot for something in between where you were and where you are now. You could warm up with just straight body weight squats and then use weight for your working sets, instead of warming up with weight.

Lower body and leg work is one place where almost everyone says it's better to leave a few reps in the tank than go all out. Their point is mostly about not failing on the big compound lifts but for you it may be more an issue of not pushing through the last reps to the degree it stresses your heart out.

You could also always increase your rest periods. That generally has more to do with muscle fatigue, but it has a direct link to cardiovascular intensity and fatigue as well.

Quote
I'm 184 with long legs and short arms, meaning that getting down to grip the bar has me curled up like a goblin fetus; so every time going to set the bar back down my shoulders come forward to try and get it all the way to the floor.

Without seeing your form, to me this sounds like an issue of a) not dropping your hips back as you lower the bar and b) not trusting your legs to control the descent, so you lean forward in an effort to have your shoulders stabilize things on the way down. There really is no call for your shoulders to drift forward on the negative portion of the rep, so it kind of sounds like inadequate hip hinging to me.

Video today from Alan Thrall kind of on this exact topic.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 12:06:01 pm by nenjin »
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Kagus

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Re: The Fitness Thread (aka Git Fit, aka Swole Patrol, aka Many Rep, Such Wow)
« Reply #460 on: February 24, 2020, 12:53:30 pm »

Yeah, warmup of 30 kilos, working at 50 kilos. The high rep count is mostly to hammer in the form, rather than the low-reps high-weight I was going at before which I ended up screwing myself over with as mentioned. Being in the supposed hypertrophy range is just bonus.

The fact that it's stressing my heart as much as it is just tells me that I need to do more of it, and probably some more dedicated cardio work as well, along with continuing on the path with reducing beta blocker intake. Lacking endurance seems to be a general theme a few places during the workout, so yeah... Gonna do more of it, hope for the best.


As for the deadlifts, it's definitely a matter of my form being upfucked, but I think I figured out what the shoulder issue was... I went back through Greg Nuckols' guide, then checked a different video from Mr. Thrall, and realized that neither source was recommending what the PT had told me during our one quick meeting... Namely, to keep my shoulders back. Not down, but packed back behind me. Trying to maintain that position from setup to set-down was rather difficult and lent itself quite a bit to the goblin fetus position as I tried to shove my upper body even lower down during setup to allow my shoulders to go all the way back.


Today we did some trap bar lifts and squats since all the barbells were occupied, and while that was certainly a weird hump just acclimatizing to that, I do think I've noticed that I'm not really hinging enough during the wormlifts, so I'm at least on the road to fixing that up now.

And I should probably clarify... I'm using metric, so all weights have been in kilos. 184 is my height in centimeters, not my weight in pounds... Got to borrow a scale back in January that put my weight at 88.9 kilos... Right after eating a 666g burger, so mileage may vary. Somewhere in the 88-89 range anyways.

nenjin

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Alan Thrall, got a quick "tips to lose fat" video that resonated with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB_ESE2XwOU

These tips are pretty grounded, and easy to stick to, and I've basically used all of them on my fat loss journey. You've probably heard them before, but I feel like this is a list of things that are easy to adhere to. To date I've done very little calorie counting and almost no food weighing and I've still managed to come in at a consistent calorie deficit.

1. Stop snacking. I was never a big snacker to begin with. But limiting myself to just my meals (lunch, dinner, before bed eats) and excluding all other extraneous calories has helped keep me in a deficit. That which we snack on is often calorie dense (nuts, breads, sweets) and, due to the nature of snacking, often isn't portion controlled. A single donut is portion controlled, as is that fun-size bag of chips. But a full bag of chips isn't portion controlled. A full bag of nuts isn't portion controlled. And even if it is portion controlled, a bag of skittles is still a few hundred calories. We often snack out of boredom and habit, not out of genuine hunger. Skip the snacking, and when meal time comes around, you will ACTUALLY be hungry and you'll want to EAT even if what's in front of you isn't pizza or burgers or something you crave.

2. Eat ONE carb and ONE protein per meal. This is one that I started doing within the last few years without realizing it. It's easiest to explain in terms of fast food.
A value meal from McDonalds is:

-The meat patty (protein)
-The bun (carbs)
-The fries (carbs)
-The toppings (usually veg)
-The soda (carbs)

That's a whole lot of carbs, easily a higher proportion of them than the rest of the meal. Or take your average sandwich meal.

-The meat (protein)
-The bread (carbs)
-Toppings (veg, and probably fat from mayo or dressing or cheese)
-Chips (carbs)
-The soda (carbs)

Or as in his example, a pasta meal
-The meat (protein)
-The pasta (carbs)
-The garlic bread (carbs)
-The toppings (fat, if you're talking Parmesan cheese)
-The soda or beer or wine (carbs)

So when I order a BIG sandwich with double meat on it, what I DON'T need anymore is a bag of chips. Could I cram them down along with everything else? Sure. Would I enjoy them? Absolutely. Do I NEED them? No, not at all. Just the bread from a 16" sandwich is honestly more carbs than I need. I could get a smaller sandwich, too, and eat even fewer carbs. But since it's 1 of 2 actual meals I'm going to eat, I need my carbs from somewhere so I make room for them.

3. Stop with the extras. When you're eating out, stop adding on extras to what's already there. Does your sandwich really need bacon in addition to the meat? Does it really need EXTRA mayo or cheese on top of what it already has? Does your movie popcorn really need EXTRA butter? Does a sundae really need EXTRA fudge? Food is already calorie dense enough, and then we add yet more calorie dense things that don't actually make the meal more filling.....but adds hundreds of extra calories we don't feel when we eat it. But your body knows it's there.

4. Just get 1 item when you eat out. I've been practicing this for a very long time now. You don't need "The meal." Just get the burger. Hell, make it a double. But you don't need the fries. You don't need the drink. You don't need a 6 piece chicken nugget to go with your hamburger. I'm the kind of guy that if I buy it, I gotta eat it so I don't feel like I've wasted my money. But not setting myself up for those extra calories in the first place is a lot easier if I just focus on one actual food item, and drink water with my meal.

5. Cut back on the liquid calories. This made the biggest difference for me starting out. Sugar is the primary culprit in most liquids that cause you to ingest way more calories than you're burning on a daily basis. It's EASY to drink 300cal worth of beverages in just one sitting, and to do that multiple times a day. Soda is the easiest one to identify because it's ubiquitous, and because we enjoy it for caffeine it easily slots in to our daily routine just like coffee does. Beer and wine both are calorie dense and we drink them not necessarily until we're "full" but until we're "satisfied" (I.e. as lit as we're looking for.) There's also milk which is calorie dense too and you gotta watch out for. (I'm talking regular plain milk. Chocolate or flavored milk is basically more calorie dense than soda even.) But IMO Milk is the best of the liquids to get your calories from if you're going to do it at all, because it has a lot of nutrients and vitamins that a physically active person wants, versus soda and alcohol which basically just have carbohydrates and that's it.

For me, what I've learned is that by doing all this stuff above, you can "make room" for things you like and want to enjoy. How much room you make will be based on how true to a nutrition lifestyle you're staying, and how fast you want to see results. It's ok to get fries as long as you're not drinking soda twice a day. It's ok to have a few beers a day as long as you're not eating two donuts every day. You can do all this without counting calories and without weighing out your food, as long as you're honest about what you're eating and you're willing and able to forgo SOMETHING SOMEWHERE.

In the final analysis, losing body fat comes down to eating less, pure and simple. But you need to adapt, mentally and emotionally, to eating less. To not always being "completely satisfied and full" at the end of every meal. Learning to separate the desire to not be bored from the actual need for sustenance, so that you can learn to tell the difference between them. Learning to enjoy real food without all the add-ons, extras, additional courses and menu items.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 01:40:02 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
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Always spaghetti, never forghetti

notquitethere

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We often snack out of boredom and habit, not out of genuine hunger.
I think this is definitely the case, also we develop habits around specific settings in our life. I found myself regularly getting a bag of crisps when I was at work, not out of hunger at all but more out of desire for sensation and a break. I don't have problems with weight per se, but I try to be mindful of what I'm eating as it's easy to get into unhelpful habits.
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nenjin

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235 for reps on deadlifts, a new PR for me. Moving up in the world!
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

NRDL

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That's great dude.


As for my training, I'm having a good time going to the gym 3 days a week using this program by Jim Wendler, and just doing conditioning on off days.
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