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Author Topic: Looking for a spot check on my cart system  (Read 1815 times)

Immortal-D

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Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« on: November 06, 2017, 09:21:55 pm »

Evening all.  I thought I had this figured out, but after waiting patiently for a Dwarf to get the 'push vehicle' job, I know I must be missing 1 crucial part.  Here is the route and 2 stops.  A lack of "!" means it should be ok (I thought).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
'Items desired by vehicle' is set to raw stone and gems, taking from the adjacent stockpile.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The path goes up some constructed track ramps, built on top of natural ramps.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Before ending at a 'give to stockpile' command at the end.  I did not set any materials for this part.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Any insight is appreciated.

carnivorn

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 10:09:47 pm »

So your third and last images say "Guide (east/west) when full" but "Guide north..." for the other two options. Could that be the problem?

Also, have your dwarves put anything in the minecarts yet? Loading things into vehicles is a low priority job, so if they're not loaded at all, the only order that would affect them is the third order, the 28 day time limit one.

Less likely, but a possible problem - how many of your dwarves have Vehicle Hauling enabled? How busy are they? It might just be getting blocked out by other, higher priority jobs.

Beyond that, idk, I mostly use minecarts for quantum stockpiles, but those are some things to check.
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Aranador

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 10:53:06 pm »

Make sure your 'take from stock pile' settings also have your required items.

It is a tad difficult to see what it is you are trying to achieve overall - you are taking from one pile, and putting into another, and for some reason need half a dozen different carts for it?
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anewaname

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 03:47:25 am »

So your third and last images say "Guide (east/west) when full" but "Guide north..." for the other two options. Could that be the problem?
You definitely should fix those 2nd and 3rd conditions; adjust their direction or remove them.
Make sure your 'take from stock pile' settings also have your required items.
You need the Desired Items in four places... Once in each Stockpile and once in each Route Stop. I often record a temporary macro when I have a complicated list of desired items, so I can play it three times after recording it. The stockpiles can have other items on their list, but only matching items will be loaded.

The dwarfs will only receive "store item in vehicle" jobs for items that match between the first stockpile and the first cart stop, and only unload items that match between the second stop and second stockpile. If you have a Track Stop set to Dump onto the second stockpile, the minecart will dump items it wants to get rid of, even if the second stockpile doesn't accept them, but this just means dwarfs will haul them to another stockpile, so you want the second track items to match the second stockpile items with a Track Stop also.

If nothing else seems to work and there are already some items in the cart, then you should see a dwarf respond if you add a "guide east in 1 days always" condition (use those for testing then delete them).
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

Immortal-D

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 07:50:41 am »

I didn't think the other movement options mattered, only the one you have selected.  Still, I can remove those.  The items in the 'take from' stockpile definitely match the cart's orders; metal ores and rough gems.  I did not set any items for the 'give to' Stop, maybe that's the problem.  I thought they would simply deposit at the destination stockpile.  And I do have Vehicle Hauling on all my peasants.  I appreciate the suggestions :)  I will try optimizing my orders and see if that helps.

Larix

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 12:37:17 pm »

I'm not seeing any minecarts. Have you assigned minecarts to your routes? "v" in the hauling menu, then choose a vehicle from the list.

I didn't think the other movement options mattered, only the one you have selected.  Still, I can remove those.

All options are checked, and once one of the conditions is met, the related action is performed. "Move always after 20 days" is a convenient catch to move the cart in case loading/unloading at one station fails or is insufficient but the other half of the transport plan is still functional.
No need to remove, they do no harm and may actually be helpful; fixing the directions to e/w respectively would be preferable, though.

Quote
  The items in the 'take from' stockpile definitely match the cart's orders; metal ores and rough gems.  I did not set any items for the 'give to' Stop, maybe that's the problem.

Nope. Items set at the "give to" station specify items the cart is supposed to keep. Dwarfs will unload items that fit into the receiving stockpile and that are not specified in the "kept items" menu. Above advice was unfortunately exactly wrong.

Track stops with a dump direction set will expel all their contents in the indicated adjacent tile. They are much faster than relying on dwarfpower to unpack stuff at the destination.
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Montieth

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 12:12:09 am »

Relying on unloading as a step is inefficient. If you need two different goods brought to two different locations on the same track path, its better to have two cart routes originating at the same point. You can have many cart end or start points at the same point with _guided_ carts occupying the same spot.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 12:15:22 am by Montieth »
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Immortal-D

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 07:18:04 pm »

I opted for unloading over dumping because I didn't want to deal with the hassle of constantly unforbidding everything.  If I can get this working, then the amount of materials being moved would actually make a QSP less efficient.  I removed the item conditions for 'give to' and readded % move conditions.  I also realized that my Dorfs were taking the super scenic route to reach the start of my mineshafts, because they deemed that walking on tracks is dangerous.  I'm in the process of carving a corresponding path alongside the tracks, which will hopefully reduce their travel time enough to start working with the mine cart.

anewaname

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 12:38:50 am »

I opted for unloading over dumping because I didn't want to deal with the hassle of constantly unforbidding everything.  If I can get this working, then the amount of materials being moved would actually make a QSP less efficient.  I removed the item conditions for 'give to' and readded % move conditions.  I also realized that my Dorfs were taking the super scenic route to reach the start of my mineshafts, because they deemed that walking on tracks is dangerous.  I'm in the process of carving a corresponding path alongside the tracks, which will hopefully reduce their travel time enough to start working with the mine cart.
Oh... the track stop dump just takes the Desired Items from the cart and piles them up on the ground. There is no forbidding of those items. This is why it is important that there is a stockpile at the dump location that wants those items. I use track stops to dump stuff, and haven't tried the "unload to stockpile" in a long time, and do not need to unforbid any of it.

Are they putting items in the carts now? And moving the cart?

I also realized that my Dorfs were taking the super scenic route to reach the start of my mineshafts, because they deemed that walking on tracks is dangerous.
They do not automatically deem it to be dangerous, you need to make the walk path more desirable than the track path.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

Larix

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 01:27:11 am »

I opted for unloading over dumping because I didn't want to deal with the hassle of constantly unforbidding everything. 
Oh... the track stop dump just takes the Desired Items from the cart and piles them up on the ground.

This is wrong. The dumping track stop fully empties the cart, it expels everything. It's an autonomous mechanical contraption which doesn't care about settings of a route stop that may happen to be in its location.

And "desired" items at an unloading track stop define the items that should remain in the cart. Setting those you want unloaded guarantees a complete and utter malfunction, because the setting's very purpose is to prevent their unloading. Of course, this only matters if you unload by hand, because - see above - route stops and their settings have no influence on track stop dumping.

The other part is right - dumping by track stop doesn't forbid items.

Quote
I also realized that my Dorfs were taking the super scenic route to reach the start of my mineshafts, because they deemed that walking on tracks is dangerous.


They do not automatically deem it to be dangerous, you need to make the walk path more desirable than the track path.

Tracks are considered more dangerous by dwarfs - the carving/construction of the track automatically marks it with a "low" traffic designation (pathing cost 5 vs. 2 for "normal"), meaning dwarfs will prefer a non-track path to get to a location even if it's twice as long. Of course, if the non-track path is three times as long, dwarfs will walk on the track (assuming low vs. normal traffic designations).
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 01:52:46 am by Larix »
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anewaname

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Re: Looking for a spot check on my cart system
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2017, 03:29:31 am »

This is wrong. The dumping track stop fully empties the cart, it expels everything. It's an autonomous mechanical contraption which doesn't care about settings of a route stop that may happen to be in its location.

And "desired" items at an unloading track stop define the items that should remain in the cart. Setting those you want unloaded guarantees a complete and utter malfunction, because the setting's very purpose is to prevent their unloading.
I changed some of my routes a bit and understand what you said. I have been using the same system of trackstop dumps and matching lists of desired items for too long.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.