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[BallC420]

It seems that if you research ships up really high the numbers wrap around and they become useless.

I researched corvette up to 80 with level 3 on the offense artifact upgrades. At level 79, they were very strong. At level 80, they do nothing - can't even kill fighters.

In other news, huge fleets of highly upgraded corvettes is pretty effective. Just nothing but corvettes, 45 of em, was able to beat the level 87 ships to advance to 88.

-edit- Actually I'm not sure what's going on. Fighting in a raid, the ships work fine. But expand and exterminate both actually heal the enemy instead of kill.

I'm definitely seeing negative damage if i turn on combat logging.


our battleship[36] shoot their fighter[16] with chance 0.24 for -5.1 damage

EDIT: It's the dmgModifier calculation that is going negative.


var dmgModifier = (4 + weaponScale * aTechOModifier - (dtpl.scale + dtpl.balance / 4) * dTechRModifier) / 4


Maybe a missing parentheses?

[Paul]

It's an issue specifically with threat level 88.

I reset to check it out and my corvettes massacred everything all the way up to 88 then started dealing negative damage. Same exact group of corvettes fought level 87 and did fine, in 88 with no change to any bonuses (no extra research or artifacts or extra production) and suddenly they do negative damage. Every other ship type does the same thing. No ship can hurt anything on level 88 for me, not just corvettes.

5440.3 is the power level of the enemies when I try to expand at level 88.

-edit-

It looks like it's specifically high power levels. I was able to jack the threat level up to 90 by doing explore missions and a 5100something mission worked normally, but then the explore mission at 90 (5374.2) stops working again. The 7400 power one vs exterminate does the same. So I guess enemies get super defenses that makes hits do negative damage once the power level is around 5300+.


-edit again- I had a little free time and for fun decided to put my java coder hat on and run a debug on the script. It's going negative at the dmgMulti var, specifically the larger values of dTechRModifier caused by higher numbers on the tech of the defender are subtracting out of the damage multiplier and causing a negative damage multiplier. The defender tech is set at values over 100 on the alien ships, and the weapons on the corvettes are scale 1 so the value subtracts out of that and gives a negative. My large ships did the same because their tech was only 1, which when compared against the super high tech ships also pulled a negative number. If I had teched up a ship with larger guns it would have been doing positive damage I assume.

You'll have to rewrite your damage multi code to make sure it doesn't allow negatives

The defender tech can get way out of hand, you'll want to check into that. Here's a gunship set to 857 and he's getting healed so much that at the end of the fight he single handedly stood against 10 destroyers and left the red bar at the bottom longer than it was when the battle started.

[etgfrog]

I guess the solution for now is to keep the threat low through that 4% chance.

[Paul]

That or get high tech destroyers (like 60+), they are large guns only so they would bust through the big ships even with the high tech. But then you still get silly ships at the top tech levels with tech set to 800something that single handedly wipe out the rest of your fleet lol.

There's not really any reason to plan around playing with the bug, once the code is adjusted to prevent the negative damage and make the tech levels sane for high end AI ships it should work fine. I don't imagine it will take LoSboccacc too long to rewrite it now that he knows exactly what the problem is.

[Darkening Kaos]

sory to say that, but fleet management is just awful.
its often impossible to use up all my production. right now, im trying to build 2 cruisers 4 corvets 4 frigates. i do have the production to do so, but it is impossible to do so. whenever i put enough priority to corvets to have 4, it reduces my cruisers to 1. in fact, as soon as i try to alocate any of my remaining 35 productoin, it reduces my cruisers to 1.
what makes it worse is, that i have to leave the ship management screen and enter the colony screen to see my free production.

     Yep, some means of seeing production is needed on the fleet management screen.  As well as an option to specify exactly what ships you want, like 3x cruisers, 4x frigates and the rest fighters or something like that.

     Otherwise really enjoying this time-vapouriser, thanx, LoSboccacc.

     Edit: And restarting after last night's session, I find I have 64k credits and 235k research while offline.  All upgrade costs are off as well, it's going to cost me 127 RP to upgrade my fighters from 40->41, that doesn't seem right.

[LoSboccacc]

var dmgModifier = (4 + weaponScale * aTechOModifier - (dtpl.scale + dtpl.balance / 4) * dTechRModifier) / 4


Maybe a missing parentheses?

thanks for the precise report XD

it's capped now for when you're facing too easy/hard enemies.

also tuned a little up the research curve costs, was supposed to be easier but not that easy to reach number in the 80s in the first galaxy for large ships.

anyway, debugging the enemy to see what's up and fyi at level 100, first galaxy bb are at level 51 and fighters at level 99

edit: minor change to production: leftover from priority allocation are accumulated and used up by smaller ship. still not optimal and I'm gonna do precise ship count at some point, but at least you can convert most of your production in ships now (the problem holding me back from counted ships is that as your empire grow overhead reduces production capacity, so a valid ship amount at sectors = 3 can be invalid for when sectors = 4) .

[Jopax]

That second link fixed the issue, thanks

[Ehndras]

PTW - trying nao

[motorbitch]

 that use remainning production for small ships is a nice improvement
ive thought some more on numerical input, and your concearn that its not flexible enough on production changes. i agree with your concearn.

still, i think it needs numerical input, but not to replace the current system, but enhance it.

i think this is how it could work:

-keep current sliders, add numerical input: "minumum desired ships".
-allow any input there, even if the desired ships can not be build.
-give desired ships priority over priority sliders
-build the fleet starting with the smallest desired ships.
ie: if i desire 99999 frigates and 99999999999 battleships, build as many frigates as possible, if anything is left, and its enough for a battleship, build battleships. if anything is left and its not enough for a battleship, distribute it via current priority system.


this way, the numerical input was completely optional, if not used, it would work like it works now. on the other hand, it would remove the current situation where building 4 ships of 4 kinds turns into a fight with  the ui to find the exact settings for the sliders that result in this production.

[Ehndras]

So do tech levels offer incrimental improvement or should I just save up for 10/25/50/100 level increments, or what?

[andrea]

I am going to test a battle with 460 fighters.

it may or may not kill my computer.

[Ehndras]

FOR !!SCIENCE!!

[LoSboccacc]

So do tech levels offer incrimental improvement or should I just save up for 10/25/50/100 level increments, or what?

mechanic wise, each increment is roughly 2% better chance at evasion and 2% more damage - enemy do level  up as you go and it's the difference that matters. the cost to produce a single ship doesn't depend on level, so there's that too, you get more bang for your money.

game wise I don't know yet if the meta favors large low level ships or smaller high level ships and if a clear winner emerges I'm ready to nerf it so that both remain viable strategies. (edit: but I suspect that high level bombers and fighters are a good meta, at least early on)

[LoSboccacc]

I am going to test a battle with 460 fighters.

it may or may not kill my computer.

if you know a little about coding you can shortcut it using the same method I'm using for balancing, Game object has a doTournament method

[andrea]

I know little about coding and most importantly I have no idea how to access it.
Besides, where is the fun with that? I am not actually going to gather data, I just want to see the mess made by trying to fit way too many htings on the screen.

edit: it froze. But the battle was going well, suggesting an advantage for small high level ships. That said, they were much higher level than otherwise possible, and computer performance is also a limit to how many units you can have.