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Author Topic: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1904 Battle Phase  (Read 29157 times)

piratejoe

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890 Revision Phase
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2017, 10:22:14 pm »

Normal: 3
Bear Armour
Bear armour is a set of cloth and leather armour that is made to protect the user from arrows and swords. its a bit protective and it is not too hard to make. Tests have proven it doesn't stop bullets too well except at extreme range, meaning that if they are shot by friendly fire or if the enemy stole one of our matchlocks they probably will at the very least get injured. However, its decent at stopping arrows from being lethal or damaging at long and medium range which means it is well at stopping our enemy from harming us, although, arrowheads do manage to cut the skin slightly most of the time, and a powerful or well placed shot to the head or the arms where the armour doesn't cover will obviously result in casualties. Still, its a good enough, and we can give all our troops such a uniform as it is Cheep.

It is now the Battle Phase, where should the Khan's mighty armies attack?
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Jilladilla

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890 Revision Phase
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2017, 10:48:50 pm »

So, I believe the current plan is Swamp (to neutralize their chariots)/Mountain (to exploit the fact that we actually built a navy).


Quote from: Votebox
Swamp: (1) Jilladilla
Village:
Mountain: (1) Jilladilla
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Madman198237

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890 Revision Phase
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2017, 10:50:22 pm »

Quote from: Votebox
Swamp: (2) Jilladilla, Madman
Village:
Mountain: (2) Jilladilla, Madman
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Doubloon-Seven

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890 Revision Phase
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2017, 10:55:15 pm »

Quote from: Votebox
Swamp: (3) Jilladilla, Madman, DoubloonSeven
Village:
Mountain: (3) Jilladilla, Madman, DoubloonSeven.

Yeah. Mountains are a good idea, and the swamp might just nullify some enemy guns- some of ours, too, but we don't need to worry. People will need to use bows, and we'll be arrow-resistant.
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Strongpoint

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890 Revision Phase
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2017, 11:39:34 pm »

Quote
Swamp: (4) Jilladilla, Madman, DoubloonSeven, strongpoint
Village:
Mountain: (4) Jilladilla, Madman, DoubloonSeven, strongpoint

I am curious to see how useful ships will be for the island front. I am not sure that it was the greatest direction to go unless we actually plan to go for naval dominance.

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Thanatos Russ

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890 Revision Phase
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2017, 12:43:07 am »

I am voting Swamp and Mountain.

So we have an alright navy and some form of body armour. So that's a good start for an arms race, quite happy with this so far.
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Kot

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890 Battle Phase
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2017, 06:04:13 am »

IIRC the biggest advantage of cloth-leather armour might be that it will work like the historical Mongolian silk armour or gambesons - arrows hitting it don't break, so it's way easier to get them out, which is a pain in ass, especially if enemy uses barbed arrows (do we even start with that or our arrows are literally pointy things with fins?).
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piratejoe

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890 Battle Phase
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2017, 06:55:24 am »

Battle Report 1, 1890
This year, our great engineers have designed the Water Wolf, the best ship in the war currently, along with the best way to get sea sick, according to a few of the younger soldiers. Still, we can tell it will do well to harass our enemy's naval transport capabilities. In other news, we made Bear Armour, which much to the disappointment of our more skilled soldiers, doesn't actually involve bear leather, or bears at all, really. Still, every soldier quickly finds themselves loving the stuff as it means that most arrow shots fired at them wont punch right through them and will for the most part be stopped by the new armour, meaning what would normally kill them would instead only cause just a flesh wound.

To both our own and the soldiers horror, it turns out that our enemy has received matchlocks...quite a few match locks in fact, more then us at any rate, even worse, it turns out they made a big matchlock made out of bronze and mounted on a chariot slightly larger then normal, such a device has been found to be known by the Nafunans as the Pharoah Narmer 6-Pound Cannon, it can fire lead balls or a bunch of metal bits that can take out numbers of soldiers and partially blunt a charge, the other things we have found out is that the Nafunan's have something called the Toth mk.1 Matchlock, it appears not much different from our own, the main differences we can tell being their tends to be ten of them for every one we have and that their is a steel spike attacked to a golden ring with wings of the same material around the barrel.

Battle Report, Naval Combat: Naval combat is a clear one sided affair, with us being the ones sinking and capturing boats left and right. We quickly found that just boarding the ships is a better and much much more profitable endevor then just trying to set the ships on fire, as the ships transporting goods tend to have riches and food, while the ones carrying weapons carry, well, weapons, both being things that would be much better in our hands. Out side of one freak incident where one of the boats actually fired one of the Narmer's they had on deck at one of our ships, driving it away, we have won every battle in the sea, and as such, we have achieved Naval Dominance

Battle Report, Island Mountain, Attacker's Karikhita, Nafuna: The mountains on the large island to the east are unstable, much more so then the ones on the mainland. As such, we have found it to be dangerous to cross, both on foot and on horse, especially on horse. However, in this area, our Bear armour proves its worth. Countless times, soldiers have taken multiple arrow's to the chest and still managed to stumble back to get help for their wounds while reporting that their where a few less Nafunan's left in these mountains, this doesn't mean that we are immune to arrows, and we still have lost plenty to the bow, especially in close range ambushes. However, this is just a mere sideshow to the real thing that gives us victory here. Logistics. Our enemy, unable to get supplies to the island thanks to our water wolf ships are able to be starved out of musket ammo, among other things, most of them resorting to desperately charging at us in the hopes to get arrows and musket shot, or to just drive us back for one more day in the vain hope they could get more ammo. Regardless, We manage to take ground. [Karikhita 3/4, Nafuna 1/4]

Battle Report, Villages, Attacker Nafuna: The villages on the eastern side of the continent are a set of open plains and farmland along with dotted villages and small towns. This location, once a location we had an advantage in, has turned against us as Nafuna uses their new cannon to great effect here. Quickly, our more melee inclined troops get a lesson in why the good old bow is the best approach as most charges have five Narmer's shoot into a charge aimed at them with a deadly spray of metal before a few soldiers equipped with Toth mk.1 Matchlocks move up to protect the cannons by firing and then using their bayonet. When at range, though, the cannons have a nasty habit of firing at any concentration of horses firing at them, and a few Nafunan soldiers with shields have the annoying habit of trying to protect the crew using said shield. Another annoying habit is the Toth user's tend to aim for the horse instead of the rider, which can lead to a very bad end for the rider and horse. Chariots are also used by our enemy, mostly to try and lure our own soldiers into a trap, or to try and distract them. Its not much better in the battles for the towns, although, the bear armour helps with melee, just not as much as it does in the open battles, where a blow from a sword is less likely then an arrow. And the Narmer Cannon can take down wooden fortifications given a bit of time. We don't give up land without a fight, but all of this leads to Nafuna advancing despite our efforts to hold the line. [Karikhita 1/4, Nafuna 3/1]

Battle Report, Swamp, Attacker Karikhita: The swamps are a terrible place to be, while the Nafunans cant bring their cannons and their guns barely work if at all, you cant bring horses so easily into the wet and muddy ground. This, combined with mosquitoes and the constant slog through the mud and water, it is considered a punishment to be sent to such a location. Still, this is where our Bear armour barely manages to keep our men alive, although, plenty succumb to their wounds here. Most fights are in melee or in skirmishes, both of which we are able to win, even if we are unable to really use our horses in here, though, the few times the Toth fires are terrifying for the soldiers, who suspect themselves to be safe, still, nine times out of ten, the only thing their guns are useful for are as clubs or spears, and when near the outskirts of the swamp, there is a chance of a Narmer firing at us, but there where only a few of these incidences, and instead its just a slow brawl where we manage to, with tooth and nail, manage to barely make ground [Karikhita 3/4, Nafuna 1/4]

Outside world:Both us and Nafuna send out ships to try and contact the other nations of the outside world, all but one of our ships comes back with news that they where successful, along with one informing the fate of the lost ship was they managed to somehow misidentify a German ship as Nafunan, and after firing a few arrows at it, was promptly sunk. A few months later, a ship flying the french flag came and, we have properly made contact with the outside world, with it we realized how we where clearly scammed and how much much more we need to advance if we plan on getting to the 'world average' and to do that we need to 'industrialize'. Preparations to do so are starting this year, although, a quite a few people have expressed concerns as to how they would be able to keep the nomadic style of life we hold so dear. In true outside world news, however, Kaiser Wilhelm II fired the chancellor Otto von Bismarck. The Stadsschouwburg burned down. The first-ever official cricket County Championship match begins. And King William III of the Netherlands died without a male heir and a special law passed to allow his daughter Princess Wilhelmina to inherit.

Spoiler: Karikhita's Military (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Nafuna Military (click to show/hide)


It is now the design phase, the Khan expects much out of you.
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Strongpoint

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1891 Design Phase
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2017, 07:16:24 am »

Ceramic hand grenades
Based on Mongolian pottery this simple weapon is nothing but a ceramic ball filled with gunpowder. They have a short fuse and designed to be relatively light to be thrown by cavalry. A lot of effort was put to make grenades waterproof to keep them usable in swamps or jungles


Gut instinct is to go for our cannon\rifle but I think this can wait till we industrialize a bit. Such light hand grenade will give us useful experience for later.
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Khang36

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1891 Design Phase
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2017, 07:31:18 am »

While i agree with your sentiment we should still try to make a gun if nothing else but for experience so when we do industrialize we are not too far behind. And secondly it can't posibly that hard if the other was able to get both a cannon and a simpler match lock rifle.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1891 Design Phase
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2017, 09:04:40 am »

We won't learn how to make better guns if we don't start making better guns. Grenades filled with basic gunpowder will work, but they won't be nearly as destructive as more modern grenades.
No, we need to be boring. Interesting doesn't win wars.

Tsakhiur Pistol: The matchlock has a problem, and that problem is water. Since water is a pretty common substance, it's a big problem. The brightest minds in Karikhita have considered this problem for many moons, and after some experimentation, they think they have the answer.
Rather than using a burning match to light the powder, we use a piece of flint striking steel (which works in all weathers). As an added bonus, the action of the flint striking the steel can be used to open a lid covering the pan, meaning the powder in it won't get wet either, and won't spill around all over the place.
This brilliant invention has been named the Tsakhiur system, and we have integrated it into a simple firearm. Shorter than the matchlock, we didn't bother with the complicated 'rifling' on the inside of the barrel (which just seems to make the thing harder to load, not to mention far harder to make). These 'Pistols' are small enough that our horsemen can carry a couple at a time, letting them fire them in rapid succession. Also, depending on the cost, they could be distributed to the common soldier as a trump card in a swordfight.

A smoothbore flintlock pistol will remain relevant for a surprisingly long time, I think.
We could develop a rifle, but without Minie balls, they'd be a pain to load. Certainly not possible from horseback (you need a mallet to load a rifle with musket balls, which is what we have)
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Madman198237

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1891 Design Phase
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2017, 09:58:09 am »

I'd almost say we ought to just try for a full flintlock musket (smoothbore), because then we can deploy infantry with them immediately. Should only be a revision to say 'take the same action, and make it shorter. Oh, and give it a pistol grip'...unless it's some ridiculous [Double Complex] or something.

Anyways, they're shooting us from long range, and using cannons. We need to prevent both of those from being effective.


And, crap, sea is going to be an issue. If we want support from the sea, we've got to add cannons to some vessels, and relatively quickly, too.

How about this:
Design a cannon, revise a smoothbore flintlock. The flintlock goes from 'fire to light fire' to 'use thing we've used for years, meant to light fire, to light fire' (i.e., flint and steel being a common method of fire-starting for years).
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Blood_Librarian

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1891 Design Phase
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2017, 11:00:57 am »

Quote from: Boats
Tsakhuir Pistol - Nuke
Moorebay Cannon- Blood_Librarian

Moorebay Cannon:

Simply put, a copy of what essentially is the cannon that the damned southerners had made with the addition of a longer barrel and a smaller bore, to the point where a particularly strong man could fire it while holding it in his hands, and maybe even live to tell the tale. The longer barrel and bore is designed for both easier manufacturing and to fire smaller rounds farther, or metal fragments into a wider area. The main goal of this cannon is to take out enemy cannons.
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Strongpoint

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1891 Design Phase
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2017, 12:26:09 pm »

Quote from: Boats
Tsakhuir Pistol(1) - Nuke
Moorebay Cannon(1)- Blood_Librarian
Ceramic hand grenades (1) Strongpoint

I believe that in low tech stage we should go for low tech solutions that still give experience. Sure those grenades are not even close to modern ones but they should be cheap and give useful experience in using gunpowder. Trying to repeat successful design of the enemy is not the best strategy because we should ask questions not give answers.

Pistols sound nice but I really prefer to wait one turn of foreign influence before doing our own firearm. Doing gunpowder related project that will stay useful as long as we don't develop cheaper hand grenades is a nice mid step. Revising ceramic grenades to use better explosives than gunpowder will be quite easy.

We may lose villages but their cannon is very good (I think it is minimum, 4 roll) and attempt to outperform it will likely fail.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1891 Design Phase
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2017, 12:36:02 pm »

[The cannon is made smaller] to the point where a particularly strong man could fire it while holding it in his hands, and maybe even live to tell the tale.
That's not a cannon any more. Cursory research suggests that their cannon weighs at least several hundred kilos.
A handheld cannon is not a cannon, it's a very big firearm.
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