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Author Topic: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1904 Battle Phase  (Read 29143 times)

piratejoe

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(Flag made by kot)
Long ago, our ancestors where masters of all of Asia and most of eastern Europe. All of this was set into motion by the great Genghis Khan. However, we did not get here due to Genghis Khan, we got here by Kublai Khan, who sent us to invade the last of Asia that wasn't under our control...Our ancestors failed to do that, and a massive storm destroyed the invasion fleet. lost and unable to find the lands they where previously meant to invade nor the land they where trying to return to, our ancestors searched for months before they found these lands, and made a home in the north. Slowly, they built up, and slowly, they found themselves in desperate need for more supplies in order to survive. So, the current Khan of the time ordered a raid the lands to the ripe and undefended lands to the south. The returns where much more then expected, and another raid was sent, and then another. Eventually, this lead to a full conflict with us making good advances at first before being pushed back, then we pushed back, and then they did. This cycle lasted for ages, but recently a man from Europe, and 'France' came to our lands. After a few weeks of learning how to communicate with him we had an exchange. In exchange for some of the things of worth we had, he would give us technology of something thousands of times more powerful then a bow, a gun it was called, and he showed how it worked. We took the deal, and now we plan on ending this war once and for all. And the Khan has chosen you to make us finally overcome the southern natives. Once again, we will show the superiority of the Mongolian empire.


OOC and rules/what the hell is this here

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)


Battle Report 1890
Battle Report 1891
Battle Report 1892
Battle Report 1893
Battle Report 1894
Battle Report 1895
Battle Report 1896
Battle Report 1897
Battle Report 1898
Battle Report 1899
Battle Report 1900
Battle Report 1901
Battle Report 1902
Battle Report 1903

So, Engineers of the Khan, what will we design?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 06:33:05 pm by piratejoe »
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 05:57:52 am »

Alright, listen. Our ancestors stole from the chinese invented gunpowder. We absolutely brought gunpowder weapons with us in our failed invasion of Japan.
It is, in other words, inexcusable that we have so much difficulty manufacturing matchlocks. Clearly our first priority is to improve our mastery over firearms.

Quote
Galtüimer Matchlock: Representing not so much a leap forwards in technology as a leap forwards in manufacturing methods, the Galtüimer (Fire-Stick) is a 100% home-made matchlock. We took apart the French weapons, and studied them intensively. Ingeniously, rather than having one smith make the entire weapon- which would require them to learn how to make each individual part- we have teams of smiths work together, each one specialising in one part of the process. Working together, our smiths can churn out these weapons far faster than they could working by themselves, and to a higher standard of quality to boot.

Because before we move onto flintlocks, we should probably take matchlocks down from Very Complex to Simple.
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Thanatos Russ

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 06:12:34 am »

First Engineer Russ here to start the discussion on how to kill Nafunans!

The new fangled Matchlock is at present too complex and resource intensive to construct by our own craftsmen at an appreciable rate. The most obvious research focus would be on making the Matchlock mass-produceable and potent.

However this is Karikhita! We do not go for the obvious first choice! The enemy, the extravagant but obtuse Nufuna will go for upgrading what must be (((a passing merchant informed us that another great power across the waves like the French had given our enemies the Gun too))) their own Matchlock imported from over the Sea.

But will an improvement to the "rifle" change the war so fast? maybe if they are lucky, but there are so many problems with it so far - isn't even as capable of killing a cow beyond a stones-throw!

No. What we need to do is develop a technology that will be immediately usable and effective, that won't require chance.

At present, both our nations lack any sort of appreciable sea combat capabilities. Only able to use small boats to transport goods and men upon calm waters.

So I propose...

A WAR SHIP!

The Water Wolf (Sloop Class)

This small war-ship has a single deck, and uses two sails to move though will have the rungs and oars in stock to be used if necessary. It is supposed to have about 30 crew members, and space in the hold and deck for about 30 more people preferably soldiers.
These troops will have the standard weapons though will be infantry at the moment since horses are hard to look after with a fighting ship.

The Water Wolf's purpose is to fight and board Nafuna's "ships", which at present would consist of capturing supplies and fucking with the logistics. It is a fast, simple design that is intentionally within the bounds of present comprehension.

In the future we will work off this basic design, doing big changes. But for now we NEED a war ship.



[X]Water Wolf (Sloop)

NB: I agree that Engineer Nuke9.13 idea is sound, but as per my earlier explanation and strategizing, we should be aiming to outsmart the opposition. With an actual navy we will smash the Nafunans with much more effectiveness than simply doing what they will be doing - assuming they don't have an engineer on their team with the exact same Idea as I. But I do not think they do or will just yet.

OOC, I have read the first ten or so turns of most of the Arms Races, and the Navy and Logistics is criminally ignored. I will assume that is the most likely possibility in this game too. At least until they are forced to react to my glorious industrious plan. Which then will mean they are on the backfoot having to react to US!

So! My comrades and engineers-at-hammers! Vote [X]Water Wolf for the glory of Karikhita!!
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Thanatos Russ

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 06:34:47 am »

First Engineer Russ here to start the discussion on how to kill Nafunans!


At present, both our nations lack any sort of appreciable sea combat capabilities. Only able to use small boats to transport goods and men upon calm waters.

So I propose...

A WAR SHIP!

The Water Wolf (Sloop Class)

This small war-ship has a single deck, and uses two sails to move though will have the rungs and oars in stock to be used if necessary. It is supposed to have about 30 crew members, and space in the hold and deck for about 30 more people preferably soldiers.
These troops will have the standard weapons though will be infantry at the moment since horses are hard to look after with a fighting ship.

The Water Wolf's purpose is to fight and board Nafuna's "ships", which at present would consist of capturing supplies and fucking with the logistics. It is a fast, simple design that is intentionally within the bounds of present comprehension.

In the future we will work off this basic design, doing big changes. But for now we NEED a war ship.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 07:03:39 am »

You know what, sure. A simple warship will instantly put us in a position of total dominance at sea. We will obviously need to work on infantry weapons as well, but if our ancestors failure to invade Japan taught us anything, it's that typhoons are fucking scary, and also that a good navy is important.

Quote from: Votes
Water Wolf: (2) Thanatos Russ, NUKE9.13
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Jilladilla

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 07:10:46 am »

Merely added the Matchlock because it is still a very valid idea. But yes, attaining Total Naval Dominance is a good thing.
Quote from: Votebox
Water Wolf: (3) Thanatos Russ, NUKE9.13, Jilladilla
Galtüimer Matchlock
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Madman198237

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 11:29:40 am »

I'm joining this side, because horse archers > Egyptians (Sorry Egyptians). I mean, historically this wouldn't have even been a contest, the Mongolian precision maneuvering and effective tactics made facing them on the open field suicide, but hey, gotta have a game somehow!

I like the ship idea. A good revision might be to reduce the cost of our halberds, or make some spears/Macedonian pikes from them.

If I recall the other team's equipment correctly, they're dependent on swords and chariots. Long spears would prevent them from ever reaching melee range, and Mongolians are great archers (Even if the enemy has equal numbers and skill in archery).
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 11:42:12 am »

Depends on how quickly technology is going to advance. If the Nafunans roll out flintlocks this turn, we'd look pretty silly with our long spears, since they'd become obsolete within a few years (whilst not contributing to the march of progress). Also, their chariots don't enter the melee regardless- it says so in the description of our halberds.

I think a better revision would be to basically do the Galtüimer, except less so. Lower the complexity from Very Complex to Complex. Even if the matchlocks themselves aren't super useful, the manufacturing techniques will be.
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Thanatos Russ

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 11:48:28 am »

Quote from: Votebox
Water Wolf: (4) Thanatos Russ, NUKE9.13, Jilladilla
Galtüimer Matchlock, Madman198237

We also have a solid amount of engineers within but a day of the war being revitalised.

Speaking of which, I hope that the previous designers were executed. They didn't leave us with much! Possible Traitors???
:b
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Kot

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2017, 01:25:44 pm »

We already have great melee weapon, which is the sabre. It is perfect for use from the horse, but it lacks a bit of range, and the halberd... almost 2 meters (why is it even in feet) finished with two halber blades? How the fuck do we even use it on horseback?

I like the ship idea. A good revision might be to reduce the cost of our halberds, or make some spears/Macedonian pikes from them.
Lances. Long-ass lances. They will remain relatively useful up to WW1 tech level. Pikes are for infantry trash, and we don't use infantry.

Anyhow, we need something to scatter Egyptian spear infantry units or quickly take down their chariot crews at close range, since our longer range is dealt with with the bows.
So, let's make the muskets shorter. The accuracy is abysmal anyway.
Put a small metal (?) plate around the matchlock so it's not extinguished as easily.
Load it with metal scraps, we can even use nails or something. This was pretty common with Cossacks and Polish/Lithuanian lowlifes, as the guns were used in short range anyway, and they were a scary as fuck weapon then.
Anyhow, we should reach a point where they are basically pistol shotguns. This way they could be used as an opening to a charge, after we wear down their infantry with rain of arrows from horseback.

TBH, I'm not even sure if we need to do anything about the chariots - sure, they are great against infantry, but we don't use that, we are Mongolians. Their only upside is that they probably give more stable firing platform on flat ground, which brings me to their most glaring downside - chariots are fucking scrap on any terrain that isin't relatively flat. We will run circles around them in forests, swamps, villages and mountains, it will only become a problem in the desert.
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Madman198237

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2017, 02:27:10 pm »

Thanatos, why on EARTH did you just randomly add me to voting for something?

Honestly, we *could* revise leather 'buff coats', as I've heard them called---they were basically bulletproof against early muskets (Including matchlocks and flintlocks) and aren't terribly difficult to make---Mongols used cloth armor all the time, toughened leather like what buff coats are made out of is just a logical expansion.

Usually, the downside is that leather isn't plentiful and is generally better used as a fur for warmth...but we're Mongols. We make a (traditionally, anyway) living herding animals and hunting. We should have plenty of leather (Relative to everyone else) to equip some shock cavalry.

Then we do lances (Or maybe in the reverse order, since guns should be uncommon and unreliable at least this turn) and we have an excellent cavalry unit capable of ruining somebody's whole day.


Then we probably ought to start work towards making carbines/cavalry-usable guns of some sort. Nothing says 'Mongol' like people shooting from horseback---we can just upgrade who's doing the shooting.
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Kot

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2017, 02:35:55 pm »

Honestly, we *could* revise leather 'buff coats', as I've heard them called---they were basically bulletproof against early muskets (Including matchlocks and flintlocks) and aren't terribly difficult to make---Mongols used cloth armor all the time, toughened leather like what buff coats are made out of is just a logical expansion.

Usually, the downside is that leather isn't plentiful and is generally better used as a fur for warmth...but we're Mongols. We make a (traditionally, anyway) living herding animals and hunting. We should have plenty of leather (Relative to everyone else) to equip some shock cavalry.
IIRC, the buff coats weren't that great against guns, but I imagine a bulletproof armour made out of leather shouldn't be that hard after all... this was a thing.
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Madman198237

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2017, 02:50:46 pm »

Eh, I just remember a story from the Thirty Years' War about a buff coat stopping a bullet/multiple bullets. We might need to do something a bit different.

Regardless, it's quite possible to do it. PAPER armor, properly made, will stop bullets almost as well as plate armor, which was *not* made obsolete by early guns, but rather made obsolete through costs (Oh, and guns got better. Much better.).
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2017, 02:54:32 pm »

Pistols, carbines, shotguns- whatever, so long as it can be fired from horseback- should be a priority for us, yes. The Nafunans are, in a way, lucky to have their chariots, which will allow them to have fast-moving units that are nevertheless armed with full-sized guns. On the other hand, as Kot points out, chariots are a bit shit compared to horse archers.

I could see revising our halberds into lances. Their simpler nature might make them cheaper, and until automatic weaponry rolls around, they will be effective for breaking enemy lines.

Bulletproof armour seems like a full design to me, since we don't seem to have any sort of armour to base a revision on.
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Madman198237

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Re: The Ameliorate War, An Arms Race game, Karikhita, 1890
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2017, 03:01:18 pm »

It's cloth or leather, either one is pretty easy, and either one, if thick enough, can stop/seriously hinder bullets. Basically, not worth a full design at this stage, because it's so simple.

Leather would likely stop bullets better, but it would be more expensive (...probably. Ore/Oil/Wood doesn't exactly mean much for cotton/wool and leather, after all)
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