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[Kot]

We should get a falconet, or perhaps a half-falconet, long but relatively small caliber. The point of it is having it capable of being used on our still small ships, and being able to be dragged at reasonable speeds by one-two horses, as we need to focus on mobility. It's major tasks would be countering any ships Egyptians would make (which probably won't be very big, as both of us lack technical capabilities to build something big and modern), and to counter their cannons.

[NUKE9.13]

You know, I'm still on the pistol. Not because I think a pistol will solve our imminent naval issues, or our existing cannon issues. Because that's short-term thinking. There isn't anything particularly important at stake, we can afford to lose ground in a few theatres. What matters is our long-term success.
By long-term metrics, the pistol is a good design, because it will be useful for many turns. A cannon would help us right now, but as we modernise, what constitutes a useful cannon will leap forwards. A cannon might be useful for 5 turns, where a pistol would be useful for 15.

The issue with grenades is that they aren't that useful, even right now. I fail to see a situation where a (weaksauce) grenade would be exactly the thing we want. Maybe in the villages, in house-to-house fighting. But in the open field, I'd rather have a pistol than a grenade.

[Strongpoint]

You know, I'm still on the pistol. Not because I think a pistol will solve our imminent naval issues, or our existing cannon issues. Because that's short-term thinking. There isn't anything particularly important at stake, we can afford to lose ground in a few theatres. What matters is our long-term success.

Long term thinking is why I want grenades, they will stay useful even in WW1-ish trench warfare, especially after refit(s)

[NUKE9.13]

Right, but what I'm trying to understand is how you think your initial grenades will be useful. Why shouldn't we wait till we have more advanced explosives, spend the design then, rather than spending a design and a revision?

[Blood_Librarian]

Because a design spent then is a waste of potential compared to spending it on something like a tank.

[NUKE9.13]

What? A) I should bloody well hope we get advanced explosives before we get the tech to build tanks, and B) We don't gain a design by using it now instead of later. We use it now, it 'delays' something else, which 'delays' something else, etc, until it 'delays' tanks or whatever by a turn. Except what we have done is lost a revision.

[Strongpoint]

Right, but what I'm trying to understand is how you think your initial grenades will be useful. Why shouldn't we wait till we have more advanced explosives, spend the design then, rather than spending a design and a revision?

Chances are that we'll spend that design on something else. And no, the situation won't be the same. We'll have more choices.

Also, I look at this as a tech tree step. We want to get basic experience on stuff that we don't need to replace ASAP. We will replace fireamrs because not replacing them places us to far behind. We can keep that grenades for a long time.

I think metal armor, second generation ships, hwacha (if we are serious to keep going rockets later, not one time move), incendiary weapons, entrenchment tools (so anti-mongol but...), or whatever that is not soon to be obsolete firearms is nice.

[NUKE9.13]

Shonkhor Light Cannon: We saw what the Nafunans were doing, and shamelessly stole their idea. Except we modified it slightly, to better suit our mobile lifestyle. The Shonkhor (Falcon) cannon fires a 1kg shot from a bronze barrel, and is also mounted on a chariot cart "limber". This lets it be easily towed around by horses at, well, not a fast pace, but a lot better than the Nafunans' lumbering behemoth, and faster than a marching soldier. The strategy envisioned involves firing on the enemy, then moving before they can be targeted by the Nafunan's artillery/other troops. Some engineers think it may even be possible to move with a loaded cannon, letting us really surprise the enemy.
Additionally, we will mount several Shonkhors on some of our Water Wolves, to better take out enemy shipping.


Small enough to work as horse artillery, big enough to be a threat to small ships. I've come around on the idea, along with the suggestion by Madman that we use our revision to turn our matchlocks into crude snaplocks with smoothbore barrels- which should be Cheap.

Tsakhuir Pistol (0)-
Moorebay Cannon (1)- Blood_Librarian
Ceramic hand grenades (1)- Strongpoint
Shonkhor Light Cannon (1)- NUKE9.13

[Khang36]

Tsakhuir Pistol (0)-
Moorebay Cannon (1)- Blood_Librarian
Ceramic hand grenades (1)- Strongpoint
Shonkhor Light Cannon (2)- NUKE9.13,khang

[Doubloon-Seven]

Tsakhuir Pistol (0)-
Moorebay Cannon (1)- Blood_Librarian
Ceramic hand grenades (1)- Strongpoint
Shonkhor Light Cannon (3)- NUKE9.13,khang, DoubloonSeven,

I have to agree. Horse-cavalry were actually very well used in this period, and suit the whole mongolian style.

[Kot]

Tsakhuir Pistol (0)-
Moorebay Cannon (1)- Blood_Librarian
Ceramic hand grenades (1)- Strongpoint
Shonkhor Light Cannon (4)- NUKE9.13,khang, DoubloonSeven, Kot

Rise my child.
Also we should totally engrave little falcons onto them or something.

[Thanatos Russ]

Tsakhuir Pistol (0)-
Moorebay Cannon (1)- Blood_Librarian
Ceramic hand grenades (1)- Strongpoint
Shonkhor Light Cannon (4)- NUKE9.13,khang, DoubloonSeven, Kot, Thantos Russ

We need cannons to maintain naval supremacy, and I am not sure if they will bother with making a navy this turn as we are winning in 3 of the 4 tiles. Though only by sea effortlessly.

[piratejoe]

Normal, 3
Shonkhor Light Cannon: Effectively a downsized copy of the Nafunan cannon that would be more mobile was the plan for our design, one we could also equip onto our existing water wolf ships. Sadly, most of the time was spent on the cannon, and we where unable to simply just add it to the ship other then leaving it with the cart on the deck, which resulted in it rolling around the deck and even falling off the ship after a while. Still, luckily, it is an effective and light cannon that can be moved around the battlefield with ease, and luckily, it can be moved while loaded, although, there is a chance for the shot to roll out of the barrel if the rout is bumpy and rough. In a one on one fight with Nafuna's cannons, ours would certainly lose, but we don't just sit there, and utilizing our mobility to the best of its ability we can lay ambushes much more effectively then we would otherwise. Being our first cannon, the smiths have a bit of trouble with it, meaning only those skilled and properly trained are able to make them, otherwise, it doesn't cost to much to make. Costs 2 ore, 1 wood -Complex, Expensive.

It is now the Revision Phase. The Khan would like something very good out of you.

[Thanatos Russ]

Let's just secure the islands with complete naval dominance. I sincerely doubt they will have managed or will manage to have proper fighting ships with guns on them this turn. So if we do a revision to both create gun decks for our Wolves and make the cannon cheaper we will have a good second battle phase.

Once we have the islands completely our own it will be very hard for the enemy to break our entrenched position.

[Thanatos Russ]

Shonkhor Wolf Cannon. The Water Wolf given a gun deck and the cannons made more easy to produce: Thantos Russ,