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[Madman198237]

Tsakhiur Carbine: (5) Jilladilla, NUKE9.13,khang, DoubloonSeven, Madman
Wild Boar 3kg Cannon: (0)

I promise that if I propose something I'll vote for it, IF I'm not just provoking discussion with it.

I'm going to re-propose that gun (Slightly modified) as a revision, I think.

[piratejoe]

Hard 4
Tsakhiur Carbine: The Tsakhiur Carbine is a brand new musket that is bound to show the Nafunan's what for. It uses the brand new Tsakhiur system, not at all related or based on those flintlocks we have heard a bit about. This allows the musket to be used on horse and in the swamp, although if the powder gets wet the pan will need to be cleaned out before it can fire. Though, this isn't usually a problem as the new cartridges help keep the powder from getting wet along with the leather hood that covers the firing mechanism. The gun also has a smooth barrel, making it easier to make although we have noticed that the gun is less accurate then the Matchlocks. Due to the technology involved and the relatively lacking gun experience, it would be complex, although, with the ease of making the barrel, the only complex thing is the firing mechanism, which most likely can be simplified and would have been simplified if we had a little more time, although, a few people are actually happy with this, wanting to keep their bows in battle, even if they aren't efficient anymore. Costs 1 ore 1 wood -Complex

It is now the Revision Phase, the Khan is pleased with your new work, keep it up

[NUKE9.13]

Ah, what I wouldn't do to make that 4 a 5.

Well, I'll tell you what I would do: spend a revision on it. I want Cheap firearms! If we swamp them in superior guns, it won't matter that we get less reinforcements in the Island Mountains, cos our soldiers will just outclass them to the point they can beat 2:1 odds. Likewise everywhere else.
I mean, I have no idea what they are designing this turn. Could be something bad. I'm going to guess something infrastructure-y, though, since they have no pressing holes in their lineup.

Anyway, revision:

Specialised Production: Hail to the master craftsman, whose every piece is a thing of exquisite beauty. Or so we said, until we looked at the rate of production these 'masters' operate at. Times are changing, and we need to produce weapons far quicker than the venerable artisans can manage. Most notably the Tsakhiur Carbine, which will be most useful if everyone gets one.
Instead of having one smith create an entire gun by himself, we've divided the work amongst several gunsmiths. By having them each specialise in one part of the process, they can learn to do their part quickly and skillfully, meaning the finished gun is assembled to higher standards in less time. We've also created large workshops for the gunsmiths to work together in, known as manufactories, which contain specialised equipment that individual smiths would not be able to afford.
We hope to lower the cost of Tsakhiur Carbines to the point that every soldier can be issued one, and prepare the stage for other weapons to be assembled more quickly as well.

Edit: Note that a revision to make the flintlock be Simple shouldn't be very hard at all (see eg "which most likely can be simplified and would have been simplified if we had a little more time"), to the point where we could probably also sneak in a few other changes if we want. The above revision is trying to get extra production-technique experience, but we could do something to improve the gun in some fashion instead. (I'm not sure how much of our industrialisation we have to do, and how much will be automatic.)
For example, we could make a longer, rifled variety for 'snipers', which would also give us rifling experience.
Or we could add a bayonet- although the shorter length would make it less useful, it might still be worth considering?

[Thanatos Russ]

Specialised Production:2. Nuke, Thanatos Russ

I will assume you are voting for your own idea.

[Madman198237]

Alternative revision:

Wild Boar 3 kg Cannon
As loud and violent as its namesake, the Wild Boar is a bronze cannon, a scaled-up version of the Shonkhor, with a long barrel for its caliber, to give it great range and high muzzle velocity. It is mounted on our Sea Wolf ships, with one gun per side, placed to balance the weight of the forwards armament and add a large-caliber punch to our vessels where necessary.

It makes it so we can possibly deliver some of our new carbines to the front, instead of getting smashed at sea due to whatever ridiculousness they've cooked up THIS time.

Also, it should be roughly Normal, as it's a simple upsizing of preexisting weaponry.

[NUKE9.13]

I maintain that the trouncing we delivered them at sea on the first turn will not be repeated in the near future, as that was an entirely one-sided fight. Even with better ships (and more than they had last turn), they will have to fight, which means at least some of our reinforcements and supplies will get through. We may be outnumbered 2:1, but if we outclass them 3:1, we can still win.

Quantity > Quality with early firearms. Massed fire will obliterate their lines. Carbine-armed cavalry will outflank them. Their slow-loading & expensive matchlocks won't be able to keep up.

[Madman198237]

Quantity is exactly what we stand to lose, however, if we lose ground at sea.

[Khang36]

Kind of undecided on revision right now but may as well update the tally box.

Specialised Production:(2) Nuke, Thanatos Russ
Wild Boar 3kg cannon:(1)Madman198237

[NUKE9.13]

Quantity is exactly what we stand to lose, however, if we lose ground at sea.

Not the kind of quantity represented by a shift from Expensive to Cheap. And only on one front.

[Madman198237]

That one front might very well be the hardest to reclaim should we lose it. If we're backed up and forced to fight *up* the mountains, it's going to get ugly, and fast. Although it would stop retreating Shonkhors from losing loaded cannonballs.

As for the shift, yeah, it would be. If that stupid ship of theirs drops from VE to E we'll be hurting, we'll lose men, and we won't be equipping everyone with the new gun, whether or not we have enough. And if we actually *lose* the production from one or more of our islands? That'll hurt enough that we may or may not recover, barring a reversal of dice.

[Greatness942]

Specialised Production:(2) Nuke, Thanatos Russ
Wild Boar 3kg cannon:(2)Madman198237, Greatness942

Having better cannons will do more damage to any ships that retreat. Quality may be worse than Quantity in these days, but that doesn't mean more firepower is an automatically bad thing.

[NUKE9.13]

That one front might very well be the hardest to reclaim should we lose it. If we're backed up and forced to fight *up* the mountains, it's going to get ugly, and fast. Although it would stop retreating Shonkhors from losing loaded cannonballs.

As for the shift, yeah, it would be. If that stupid ship of theirs drops from VE to E we'll be hurting, we'll lose men, and we won't be equipping everyone with the new gun, whether or not we have enough. And if we actually *lose* the production from one or more of our islands? That'll hurt enough that we may or may not recover, barring a reversal of dice.

You'll notice that we are currently at 2/4 on that front, and also that we lost it despite having even numbers last turn. Maintaining the status quo won't win us the islands- and that's on the very generous assumption that our shitty little ships armed with a staggering one-cannon broadside will be able to maintain an even footing against their behemoths.

Even if we did lose some of our transport capacity, at the moment none of our stuff would be affected.

[Madman198237]

Technically part of the revision is giving them a three-gun broadside rather than a TWO-gun broadside. This new one adds the larger cannons towards the aft to balance out the weight and add firepower without subtracting anything.

Oh, and it's a slightly larger gun than theirs with a long barrel, it will have better range and power than their guns.

[Jilladilla]

Sorry Madman, but I have to agree on the Cheap guns.

Specialised Production:(3) Nuke, Thanatos Russ, Jilladilla
Wild Boar 3kg cannon:(2) Madman198237, Greatness942

[Madman198237]

Technically you don't have to agree on that