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[Funk]

We haven't hit diminishing returns on rifles until we hit assault rifles. Prior to that, there's still plenty of room to develop rifles. A revolver rifle isn't going to improve our theoriticals of firearm design as much as the Reseph will and we'd still need to design a new round for a proper bolt-action too.

Pirate has said that no matter which we go for, the other will be normal next turn, and this one allows for us to get a higher rate of fire standard issue rifle for our soldiers (original version of the Mosin had a 5/minute while the Colt Repeating rifle had a 20/minute, the latter while not using all-in-one cartridges like the Carrera uses).
(Im really not sure of that 5rpm is right, the Mosin–Nagant action is faster then that.)

Yes assault rifles are better but we're not just going to smoothly build better and better rifles until we get an assault rifle.
A revolver rifle gives us a good weapon and lets us go off and make some other weapons with out us being behind in that area.

[Taricus]

A revolver rifles does leave us behind in infantry weapons though; there's a reason they weren't used for general service. Furthermore the large size of the .45 will negatively impact the rifle's usefulness: The faster a weapon fires the less recoil you want a given round producing, which means you want a smaller round for it.

And the sustained fire rate will be about the same, if not in favour of the Reseph: The Carrera rifle needs to reload all six rounds at ones, and it needs to be done by hand. Moreover the hinge being where it is will also make it difficult to reload given the weapon's weight. Furthermore, the hinge provide a larges point in failure in the gun's construction, with the weight of the entire weapon and it's layout, that point breaking will render the entire thing useless.

[Mandemon]

I already talked about this in Discord, but most of those reasons why they didn't become common had less to due to with problems of the weapon and more due to using individually loaded powder cylinders, something that Carrera does not use (it uses all-in-one rimfire cartridges). These percussion cap + powder chambers had issue of powder leaking and causing chainfire. Carrera does not use this system so it does not need to fear chain fire. Also, there are plates to protect user from cylinder gap blasts, which I note is used in modern Taurus rifles.Entire cylinder could be placed inside a sealed chamber in fact, thanks to use of all-in-one cartridges.

As for reloading, the best reload I could find for single-shot bolt-action is about 7 seconds from firing the weapon to the next shot. On a range, with ammo attached to the hand. Meanwhile for Carrera, developing moonclips is simple and easy and makes reload process last at best the same, while still providing ROF.

For the sustained fire, do remember that each time Reseph is loaded user needs to take the rifle off from their shoulder to process the bolt and rechamber it, losing the target and needing to take cover. In contrast, Carrera if it misses can simply operate the hammer with a finger and fire the second shot before enemy has had chance to take cover or return fire.

Also, it is incorrect to say that Carrera needs to reload all six rounds at one. It can only load one, two, three, four or five or indeed go for full chambering. It is matter of user. Breakaction is not actually that difficult to operate. Only thing I will give it over Reseph in that regard is that reloading takes slightly more space as you need to open up the chambers, but the needed space only matters if you are fighting in space that have you unable to move your shoulders.

Finally, hinge may be a break point, but it is not something that breaks easily. Once again I point to historical examples and how they didn't suffer this supposed problem.

Also, revolver actions allows us to easily revision a side-arm for our troops as well later develop gatling guns.

(Note: Those of you who already engaged me in debate on Discord, this is less aimed at you and more on those who were not there or are undecided)

[Taricus]

Revisioning a sidearm from the rifle is pointless at this stage; the enemy lacks close combat ability and we still retain our bayonets for our rifles.

The reloading and un-shouldering thing is moot with our current use of black powder; the smoke will ensure that we have to re-aim after every shot anyway. And spending an action in improving a rifle that is a dead end is a waste of a revision, something better spent to improve or help introduce vital components of other designs. And if the user reloads every three or two shots, that is still more time spent unloading and effectively makes the ROF improvements moot anyway. More to the point the enemy still has artillery, moving rather than standing and shooting is vital for our troops not being killed.

And the hinge may not break easily, but it can jam or otherwise be made useless, making the rifle itself unusable. We need a rifle that doesn't have so many moving parts. Hell, I'd even support a rifle that just had the ammo chamber that moved, but the entire upper receiver being on the hinge does not inspire confidence at the very least.

And the rimmed cartridges, even if as all in ones, are not going to be particularly viable for converting to use for a bolt action rifle or smokeless powder, especially in a large caliber like .45. Moreover that caliber is going to be highly impractical for sustained fire due to recoil and effectively makes the Carrera rifle unsuitable for anything more than a stopgap towards modern weapons, and developing a breech-loaded weapon will undoubtedly make a proper bolt action rifle much easier as we would not also have to design a bolt action already.

We cannot just be closed in and thinking of the tech we have now, we must ensure the tech we develop can move us forward to more and more advanced applications. The Reseph pushes our technology forward further, and opens the avenue of enabling machine guns due to a proper breech being designed, which is something the Carrera does not do.

[Mandemon]

Taricus, you do know that both Reseph and Carrera use rimfire cartridges? Because we simply put can even hope to develop centerfire as it is.

And jamming issue is something that goes with every rifle. Equally, the build of soot and grime in the bolt action makes it stiff to move and less accurate. Carrera gets away with it thanks to being able to just by cycling the chambers. This is problem with all design currently being presented, because we are still using black powder rather than cordite or other smokeless gunpowder.

And being able to quickly develop a side arm is not a moot point: it saves us a design when we want to do it.

And for moving and shooting Carrera is good, because soldiers can move and scoot faster than having to spend time aiming and operating the bolt.

[Thanik]

Taricus, you do know that both Reseph and Carrera use rimfire cartridges? Because we simply put can even hope to develop centerfire as it is.

And jamming issue is something that goes with every rifle. Equally, the build of soot and grime in the bolt action makes it stiff to move and less accurate. Carrera gets away with it thanks to being able to just by cycling the chambers. This is problem with all design currently being presented, because we are still using black powder rather than cordite or other smokeless gunpowder.

And being able to quickly develop a side arm is not a moot point: it saves us a design when we want to do it.

And for moving and shooting Carrera is good, because soldiers can move and scoot faster than having to spend time aiming and operating the bolt.

Actually the Reseph doesn't have the soot build-up issue, or at least it's less prominent, due to a cleaner burn pattern in the cartridge. The Dreyse used this to a great effect, but used paper cartridges, hence gas would escape during the burn and lessen the impact of the burn pattern.

[Taricus]

Operating the bolt is a moot point if the weapon is being reloaded. More to the point, the bolt action will allow us to reload the rifle while prone, something which the Carrera cannot do due to the rifle's movement during reloading.

[Mandemon]

Operating the bolt is a moot point if the weapon is being reloaded. More to the point, the bolt action will allow us to reload the rifle while prone, something which the Carrera cannot do due to the rifle's movement during reloading.

Just so you know, the cylinder is on the barrel side, right? That allows reloading while prone by simply slightly turning the rifle to the side.

[Taricus]

So in order to reload the rifle while prone we have to put the rifle at an awkward angle. That's not a particularly good idea, especially if the rifle itself is a dead end in regards to development.

We do have to consider the consequences of which rifle we develop, and the Reseph does more to further our knowledge and technical abilities in regards to firearms than what the Carrera could do. Sure, we lose out on a little ROF, but given that we do get a lot more rifles the effect will be negligible, and moreover we also need the revision to boost our artillery, and as the Reseph will not need any revisions to get up to full use it is a more efficient use of an action since we can then use that revision to enhance our artillery rather than spending more actions on the Carrera.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

So in order to reload the rifle while prone we have to put the rifle at an awkward angle. That's not a particularly good idea, especially if the rifle itself is a dead end in regards to development.

We do have to consider the consequences of which rifle we develop, and the Reseph does more to further our knowledge and technical abilities in regards to firearms than what the Carrera could do. Sure, we lose out on a little ROF, but given that we do get a lot more rifles the effect will be negligible, and moreover we also need the revision to boost our artillery, and as the Reseph will not need any revisions to get up to full use it is a more efficient use of an action since we can then use that revision to enhance our artillery rather than spending more actions on the Carrera.

Which areas does the Reseph advance?  As I see it, with the Carrera we would be getting advances in technology through just having all-in-one cartridges which will allow for us to create the Reseph next turn at normal difficulty where we can add a scope to the weapon to make it far more effective at the long ranges people seem to want out of it, while providing us the ability to go down the revolver sidearms pathway which was the standard for a not insignificant amount of time and we likely won't be able to go past for some time as further technology is much more modern than we would be able to access for multiple turns, and also providing us with experience in cylinders and mechanisms to automatically move them which will likely benefit us when we attempt to create a Gatling gun.

[Taricus]

The Reseph provies us with a proper-breech-loading weapon, the theory of which we could potentially apply to artillery designs in the future. More to the point, a gatling gun isn't the most effective MG option available what with it's size, and a bolt action can more easily lead to something like the maxim gun instead. Sidearms aren't even a concern at this stage, and if we want a close in weapon we may well design a trench gun instead.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

The Reseph provies us with a proper-breech-loading weapon, the theory of which we could potentially apply to artillery designs in the future. More to the point, a gatling gun isn't the most effective MG option available what with it's size, and a bolt action can more easily lead to something like the maxim gun instead. Sidearms aren't even a concern at this stage, and if we want a close in weapon we may well design a trench gun instead.

It may not be the most effective for its size, but that was because it was the first of its kind.  The one you listed wasn't even invented until 1883, currently less than 10 years ago off of experience with the gatling.  There is no goddamn way Pirate's going to be letting us skip that much.

Breech-loading artillery of that type are even further off and we could do quite fine with a screw breech that the Reseph provides no experience for.

And when they would become a "concern" as you put it (what, our cavalry can't use them to get off a bunch of shots at once really fast?), we would be able to simply use a revision action of the Carrera to shorten the barrel and change the grip/stock, rather than needing to burn a dedicated design to it like would be needed with the Reseph line.

[Taricus]

The thing is that we don't have cavalry; we have charioteers and thanks to the stable platform that offers reloading is not an issue for them with the Reseph. And we aren't going to skip that far unless we do put the Carrera into action as the firing mechanism and actual knowledge on how breech-loading works is something the Carrera does not provide.

And a pistol that uses a rifle round is a bad idea for anyone that isn't of Moskurgan decent.

[NAV]

Design Votes:
Crocodile vest (0):
.305 Reseph Akar Series 1 Service Rifle (3): Thanik, Taricus, Talion
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle (6): Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated, Funk, Lightforger, NAV
Research Credit / Team Votes:
Use Research Credit on .305 Reseph Akar S1SR (3): Thanik, Taricus, Talion
Use Research Credit on Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: (6) Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated, Funk, Lightforger, NAV

[piratejoe]

Very Hard, 2, 6 (Welp, the brits just saved yer arse.)
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: While we where designing the Carrera, we had a lot of issues and trouble getting it to work. We where stressed more and more as the time we had to make the thing got shorter and shorter, and once that time was up, we looked to see what our British friends where able to accomplish, as per our little trade deal about two years ago. This is when we found out they had been slacking off and drinking tea as they had finished it in, and we aren't making this up, three days. But, erm, you probably don't care about that....Anyway, the Carrera is a revolver rifle using bullets that have a percussion cap in the casing to allow an ease of fire. It is fast firing and has a nice high rate of fire of 18 rounds per minute for the standard user should they take little time to aim, fully unload all the spent casings and reload the rifle after firing all six shots. It of course, varies from soldier to soldier but this is a massive improvement over everything we use to have. It also is quite reliable, recoil is not much of an issue, thanks to the bullets not being as large as originally planned, and instead changed to .36

It is now the Revision Phase, Neferu our glorious Pharaoh is quite pleased with the work the British have done.